jsp 1 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) I have an older 2001 S12 (No muzzle threads or BHO lever) that I want to convert. If I purchase a Tapco G2 FCG modified by Dinzag Arms, do I use the factory hammer spring from my S12 or does it come with Dinzag's FCG? I might be also looking at Tromix's and Tac-47's FCGs. Which one would you guys recommend? Edited January 17, 2010 by jsp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bikeryoda 7 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I have the Tromix modified fcg, but the again I'm kinda biased Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 If I purchase a Tapco G2 FCG modified by Dinzag Arms, do I use the factory hammer spring from my S12 or does it come with Dinzag's FCG?You'll reuse most everything. I might be also looking at Tromix's and Tac-47's FCGs. Which one would you guys recommend? Both are nothing more than modified Tapco FCGs. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) I have an older 2001 S12 (No muzzle threads or BHO lever) that I want to convert. If I purchase a Tapco G2 FCG modified by Dinzag Arms, do I use the factory hammer spring from my S12 or does it come with Dinzag's FCG? I might be also looking at Tromix's and Tac-47's FCGs. Which one would you guys recommend? Yes you can reuse your factory hammer spring or use a jt engineering spring. If you plan on making a slot for the bho then you will need to make a slight bend on the right spring leg on either spring to clearance for the lever. I used a tromix modified fcg. Drop in easy. No other mods needed. If you don't plan on cutting the bolt hold slot then just buy the standard tapco g2 and you could always run a krebs modified safety lever. For the barrel threading, I believe one of the vendors rent out the materials to do it yourself Edited January 17, 2010 by sapper1371usmc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I have an older 2001 S12 (No muzzle threads or BHO lever) that I want to convert. If I purchase a Tapco G2 FCG modified by Dinzag Arms, do I use the factory hammer spring from my S12 or does it come with Dinzag's FCG? I might be also looking at Tromix's and Tac-47's FCGs. Which one would you guys recommend? Yes you can reuse your factory hammer spring or use a jt engineering spring. If you plan on making a slot for the bho then you will need to make a slight bend on the right spring leg on either spring to clearance for the lever. I used a tromix modified fcg. Drop in easy. No other mods needed. If you don't plan on cutting the bolt hold slot then just buy the standard tapco g2 and you could always run a krebs modified safety lever. For the barrel threading, I believe one of the vendors rent out the materials to do it yourself If he doesn't have a BHO lever or BHO spring, why would he want to cut a slot? Since you brought it up, he'll need a shim for the hammer (it's been relieved for the BHO lever). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Use the factory hammer spring, it is better than the replacements IMHO. I have an older S-12 like yours, that came without muzzle threads or BHO. If you have the longer barrel it will have an integral full choke. I put one of Makc's BHOs in mine but I don't think he sells them any more. Any of our vendors offering a trigger group for this conversion will provide a quality product. If you are buying parts buy as many as possible from one place to keep shipping cost down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) I have an older 2001 S12 (No muzzle threads or BHO lever) that I want to convert. If I purchase a Tapco G2 FCG modified by Dinzag Arms, do I use the factory hammer spring from my S12 or does it come with Dinzag's FCG? I might be also looking at Tromix's and Tac-47's FCGs. Which one would you guys recommend? For an S12 without a BHO, an unmodified Tapco G2 FCG will work just fine. The Tromix modified Tapco FCG is the wrong choice because the width of the hammer axis has been cut down on one side to accommodate the BHO. If you install the Tromix FCG with no BHO, your hammer will move from sided to side in the receiver, and this is bad. To use the Tapco G2 as is, you will need to grind down the portion of the hammer directly over the axis which protrudes up coming to a point. This will need to be ground down FLAT almost even with the top of the axis. The Russian hammer can be used, but the front top of the hammer "paddle" needs to be modified so that it does not catch and stick on the Tapco disconnector. For an S12 without the BHO, it is better and easier just to use the Tapco G2 hammer. The other thing you will need is a disconnector spring. This can be obtained by drilling out one side of the axis of of the factory trigger hook and disconnector assembly, and removing the factory disconnector spring for use with the new Tapco disconnector. If you don't wish to go through the trouble of disassembling the factory hook and disconnector group, you can buy disconnector springs from a number of sources. I like Carolina Shooter's Supply because Greg Queen's service it top notch. You can find CSS in the "business members" section as you scroll down the home page. Good luck! WS Edited January 17, 2010 by WaffenSchmied 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWho 10 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Dear xxx: This message confirms the rescheduled delivery date for your recent purchase. We will deliver the item(s) on 02/02/2010. its my 4th email. wonder why it says rescheduled Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) I have a 2001 Saiga-12, you shouldn't have any problems with it; does yours have the welded on muzzle choke? Edited January 17, 2010 by vbrtrmn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I have an older 2001 S12 (No muzzle threads or BHO lever) that I want to convert. If I purchase a Tapco G2 FCG modified by Dinzag Arms, do I use the factory hammer spring from my S12 or does it come with Dinzag's FCG? I might be also looking at Tromix's and Tac-47's FCGs. Which one would you guys recommend? Yes you can reuse your factory hammer spring or use a jt engineering spring. If you plan on making a slot for the bho then you will need to make a slight bend on the right spring leg on either spring to clearance for the lever. I used a tromix modified fcg. Drop in easy. No other mods needed. If you don't plan on cutting the bolt hold slot then just buy the standard tapco g2 and you could always run a krebs modified safety lever. For the barrel threading, I believe one of the vendors rent out the materials to do it yourself If he doesn't have a BHO lever or BHO spring, why would he want to cut a slot? Since you brought it up, he'll need a shim for the hammer (it's been relieved for the BHO lever). I thought in his original post he wanted to install a bho Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 The other thing you will need is a disconnector spring. This can be obtained by drilling out one side of the axis of of the factory trigger hook and disconnector assembly, and removing the factory disconnector spring for use with the new Tapco disconnector. Here we go again with the destruction. Doesn't anyone know how to remove a simple piece of spring steel w/o resorting to drilling or cutting torch or dynamite? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 The other thing you will need is a disconnector spring. This can be obtained by drilling out one side of the axis of of the factory trigger hook and disconnector assembly, and removing the factory disconnector spring for use with the new Tapco disconnector. Here we go again with the destruction. Doesn't anyone know how to remove a simple piece of spring steel w/o resorting to drilling or cutting torch or dynamite? Does anyone know how to respond to a post without arrogance or condescension. If you have a better solution, by all means contribute. But you appear to have come to castigate rather than contribute. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? The ball is solidly in your court... Out with it. WS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 The other thing you will need is a disconnector spring. This can be obtained by drilling out one side of the axis of of the factory trigger hook and disconnector assembly, and removing the factory disconnector spring for use with the new Tapco disconnector. Here we go again with the destruction. Doesn't anyone know how to remove a simple piece of spring steel w/o resorting to drilling or cutting torch or dynamite? Does anyone know how to respond to a post without arrogance or condescension. If you have a better solution, by all means contribute. But you appear to have come to castigate rather than contribute. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? The ball is solidly in your court... Out with it. WS To repeat myself: It's a simple square of spring steel rolled up and stuck in the three FCG parts to hold them together. Simple pushing on it with the end of a small screwdriver will push it out. Why do we have to destroy destroy destroy instead of think and solve? The pins holding the Klinton Krap in place are the same way. All that needs doing is to roll the edges up with a cold chisel, and the pins fall out. NO NO NO, we have to drill holes in our gun to make very sure those bad pins come out . . For Pete's sake folks, it's the way ONE MAN did it. It is not the law to be followed. It's not the "Right Way", it's one possible "Right Way". There are non-destructive methods to do most of the conversion. Some save electricity, some save time, others save money. Some do all three. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 (edited) The other thing you will need is a disconnector spring. This can be obtained by drilling out one side of the axis of of the factory trigger hook and disconnector assembly, and removing the factory disconnector spring for use with the new Tapco disconnector. Here we go again with the destruction. Doesn't anyone know how to remove a simple piece of spring steel w/o resorting to drilling or cutting torch or dynamite? Does anyone know how to respond to a post without arrogance or condescension. If you have a better solution, by all means contribute. But you appear to have come to castigate rather than contribute. Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today? The ball is solidly in your court... Out with it. WS To repeat myself: It's a simple square of spring steel rolled up and stuck in the three FCG parts to hold them together. Simple pushing on it with the end of a small screwdriver will push it out. Why do we have to destroy destroy destroy instead of think and solve? The pins holding the Klinton Krap in place are the same way. All that needs doing is to roll the edges up with a cold chisel, and the pins fall out. NO NO NO, we have to drill holes in our gun to make very sure those bad pins come out . . For Pete's sake folks, it's the way ONE MAN did it. It is not the law to be followed. It's not the "Right Way", it's one possible "Right Way". There are non-destructive methods to do most of the conversion. Some save electricity, some save time, others save money. Some do all three. And, some work -- but don't meet with your approval. To each his own. You are a good source for technical knowledge, but by no means the only source. And FYI, you don't have to come down upon those with whom you do not agree like a condescending pompous horses ass to make a point. One of the most annoying things about a public forum, is that there always seem to be the usual compliment of self appointed gurus, who thrive upon trolling and belittling the other guy, to build themselves up. I thought you were better than that. WS Edited January 17, 2010 by WaffenSchmied 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jsp 1 Posted January 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I have a 2001 Saiga-12, you shouldn't have any problems with it; does yours have the welded on muzzle choke? No, just a 19" smooth bore. No external or internal threads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jsp 1 Posted January 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 I have an older 2001 S12 (No muzzle threads or BHO lever) that I want to convert. If I purchase a Tapco G2 FCG modified by Dinzag Arms, do I use the factory hammer spring from my S12 or does it come with Dinzag's FCG? I might be also looking at Tromix's and Tac-47's FCGs. Which one would you guys recommend? Yes you can reuse your factory hammer spring or use a jt engineering spring. If you plan on making a slot for the bho then you will need to make a slight bend on the right spring leg on either spring to clearance for the lever. I used a tromix modified fcg. Drop in easy. No other mods needed. If you don't plan on cutting the bolt hold slot then just buy the standard tapco g2 and you could always run a krebs modified safety lever. For the barrel threading, I believe one of the vendors rent out the materials to do it yourself If he doesn't have a BHO lever or BHO spring, why would he want to cut a slot? Since you brought it up, he'll need a shim for the hammer (it's been relieved for the BHO lever). I thought in his original post he wanted to install a bho I might modify it later for a BHO lever but most likely not. In a few months, I will be picking up a new S12 but I will still keep my old one. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I have an older 2001 S12 (No muzzle threads or BHO lever) that I want to convert. If I purchase a Tapco G2 FCG modified by Dinzag Arms, do I use the factory hammer spring from my S12 or does it come with Dinzag's FCG? I might be also looking at Tromix's and Tac-47's FCGs. Which one would you guys recommend? Yes you can reuse your factory hammer spring or use a jt engineering spring. If you plan on making a slot for the bho then you will need to make a slight bend on the right spring leg on either spring to clearance for the lever. I used a tromix modified fcg. Drop in easy. No other mods needed. If you don't plan on cutting the bolt hold slot then just buy the standard tapco g2 and you could always run a krebs modified safety lever. For the barrel threading, I believe one of the vendors rent out the materials to do it yourself If he doesn't have a BHO lever or BHO spring, why would he want to cut a slot? Since you brought it up, he'll need a shim for the hammer (it's been relieved for the BHO lever). I thought in his original post he wanted to install a bho I might modify it later for a BHO lever but most likely not. In a few months, I will be picking up a new S12 but I will still keep my old one. Then I would go with the standard Tapco G2 FCG and reuse your stock spring. You will only have to grind down the pointed hump on the hammer axis and you should be good to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jsp 1 Posted January 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I have an older 2001 S12 (No muzzle threads or BHO lever) that I want to convert. If I purchase a Tapco G2 FCG modified by Dinzag Arms, do I use the factory hammer spring from my S12 or does it come with Dinzag's FCG? I might be also looking at Tromix's and Tac-47's FCGs. Which one would you guys recommend? Yes you can reuse your factory hammer spring or use a jt engineering spring. If you plan on making a slot for the bho then you will need to make a slight bend on the right spring leg on either spring to clearance for the lever. I used a tromix modified fcg. Drop in easy. No other mods needed. If you don't plan on cutting the bolt hold slot then just buy the standard tapco g2 and you could always run a krebs modified safety lever. For the barrel threading, I believe one of the vendors rent out the materials to do it yourself If he doesn't have a BHO lever or BHO spring, why would he want to cut a slot? Since you brought it up, he'll need a shim for the hammer (it's been relieved for the BHO lever). I thought in his original post he wanted to install a bho I might modify it later for a BHO lever but most likely not. In a few months, I will be picking up a new S12 but I will still keep my old one. Then I would go with the standard Tapco G2 FCG and reuse your stock spring. You will only have to grind down the pointed hump on the hammer axis and you should be good to go. Can you guys remind me why I need to grind that pointed part off the hammer? I'm trying to find a pic. Can someone post a link? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Can you guys remind me why I need to grind that pointed part off the hammer? I'm trying to find a pic. Can someone post a link? Because there's a bigass cross member right in front of the hammer pivot axis? This cross member is only found in the S12s. You'll see it when you open the gun up. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jsp 1 Posted January 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 (edited) Can you guys remind me why I need to grind that pointed part off the hammer? I'm trying to find a pic. Can someone post a link? Because there's a bigass cross member right in front of the hammer pivot axis? Thanks guys. This cross member is only found in the S12s. You'll see it when you open the gun up. Thanks guys. Edited January 18, 2010 by jsp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Why do we have to destroy destroy destroy instead of think and solve? Who cares, anyway? You don't even use those pins, post-conversion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matthew Hopkins 1,065 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Why do we have to destroy destroy destroy instead of think and solve? Who cares, anyway? You don't even use those pins, post-conversion. besides that, you are going to have to open up those holes anyways, to install a 3/16th inch hole plug. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Why do we have to destroy destroy destroy instead of think and solve? Who cares, anyway? You don't even use those pins, post-conversion. besides that, you are going to have to open up those holes anyways, to install a 3/16th inch hole plug. Negative on that 3/16" hole and plug. That's a ready made 1/8" hole. Tap it for fine threading and use a 1/8" fine thread pan head allen screw with blue locktite. Good luck! WS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) Why do we have to destroy destroy destroy instead of think and solve? Who cares, anyway? You don't even use those pins, post-conversion. besides that, you are going to have to open up those holes anyways, to install a 3/16th inch hole plug. Negative on that 3/16" hole and plug. That's a ready made 1/8" hole. Tap it for fine threading and use a 1/8" fine thread pan head allen screw with blue locktite. Good luck! WS Negative on the hole plugs, folks. Take the barreled receiver to a local welding shop and have'em tig'em up. Hole plugs are ghetto (besides, who makes hole plugs for the original trigger hole?). Edited January 20, 2010 by nalioth 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oldandslow 3 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I have a 2001 Saiga 12. Added the BHO. Naturally, I cut the slot for the newly acquired BHO on the wrong side of the gun. Grrrrr..... Chopped off the barrel to 18" and rented Dinzag's die to tread the barrel for the Russian Saiga choke. (Later replaced by a Polychoke). When I got finished, I suffered through 2 years of shooting failures, fixing all of the little problems that popped up during 3 gun matches. Naturally, the gun worked perfectly during practice sessions. Recently, I reworked the old "girl", welding up the inadvertent slot, repainting with Duracoat (which, I see is disliked by a large contingent). Cut up a AK-47 trigger guard to mimic a Saiga SWAT style trigger. Installed a C-more red dot on a Belarus side mount. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Hole plugs are ghetto Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) Can you guys remind me why I need to grind that pointed part off the hammer? I'm trying to find a pic. Can someone post a link? Affirmative on the bigass crossmember. Here is a pic of mine. It's in front of the hammer. The factory Tapco hammer has a beg sharp bump over the axis. Mimic the factory hammer when you shape it. Then go the extra step & smoothen the lower bump a touch on the hammer face to reduce drag (I could have taken more off) & polish everything up to function smoothly. This is all easy dremmel work. with a touch of red rubbing compound. Keep in mind, pictured is my double hook Tapco G-2, additional work is needed to use it. You only need a single hook. It's the same, just no right hook. This is a side view of the Tapco G2 hammer as you will recieve it. You grind that big point off in front of where the axis pin goes through. And I welded my holes, I think it looks better, More professional. But do keep in mind that you'll need to refinish the reviever afterward. The heat from welding will kill a lot of the black coating as will dressing it smooth to be undetectable. It will no longer just be a squirt of duplicolor engine enamel on the bottom of the receiver to cover where the old plate was. I do like the idea of tapping the reviever & using dome shaped allen screws rather than plastic plugs. Their black already, they resemble rivets & there are some people who don't want to put welding heat on their receiver do to anealing, this would be better for them than plastic plugs. Edited January 20, 2010 by Paulyski Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 <snip> there are some people who don't want to put welding heat on their receiver do to anealing, <snip> . . so long as there's no welding near the hammer and trigger axis holes, it really doesn't matter. If you're gonna have'em welded up, find someone (muffler shop) with a tig welder. This method won't put much heat at all into the gun, compared to other welding methods. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matthew Hopkins 1,065 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) I do like the idea of tapping the reviever & using dome shaped allen screws rather than plastic plugs. Their black already, they resemble rivets & there are some people who don't want to put welding heat on their receiver do to anealing, this would be better for them than plastic plugs. You must be thinking of flat plastic plugs, they do make plastic plugs that look excatly like rivit heads. the thing about using allen head screws is that you have to get the holes tapped for the screws, then there is the issue with that allen hole. the thing with welding up the holes, is you will put more money into it not to mention the wait, welding up the hole and then the refinish job. guess it's a matter of what you want to do, to each his own. for me 2 dollars for plastic plugs and 4 minutes work vs. having the hole welding up then paying someone to refinish it along with the wait for that job was too much of a hassle and extra money that can be better be put toward mags, ammo or other accesories. if you look at the hole plugs I installed, unless you didn't know it was hole plugs, I bet you would swear it's rivits Edited January 20, 2010 by Matthew Hopkins Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 The holes weaken the structural integrity. . . and I'll ask again: Who makes a hole plug to fill in the old trigger hole? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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