Matthew Hopkins 1,065 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) The holes weaken the structural integrity. it compromised the structural integrity of the receiver just as much as the big opening called the mag well . . and I'll ask again: Who makes a hole plug to fill in the old trigger hole? don't know who makes them, but I found them at the speciality draws in LOWES Edited January 20, 2010 by Matthew Hopkins Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 I do like the idea of tapping the reviever & using dome shaped allen screws rather than plastic plugs. Their black already, they resemble rivets & there are some people who don't want to put welding heat on their receiver do to anealing, this would be better for them than plastic plugs. You must be thinking of flat plastic plugs, they do make plastic plugs that look excatly like rivit heads. the thing about using allen head screws is that you have to get the holes tapped for the screws, then there is the issue with that allen hole. the thing with welding up the holes, is you will put more money into it not to mention the wait, welding up the hole and then the refinish job. guess it's a matter of what you want to do, to each his own. for me 2 dollars for plastic plugs and 4 minutes work vs. having the hole welding up then paying someone to refinish it along with the wait for that job was too much of a hassle and extra money that can be better be put toward mags, ammo or other accesories. if you look at the hole plugs I installed, unless you didn't know it was hole plugs, I bet you would swear it's rivits I know there are a lot of people who can't weld, but you would actually send it out to get 2 holes tapped too? Shit, if you can turn a screwdriver you can tap a hole. I welded & finished them myself for the cost of only electricity. It took me 10 minuets. I planned on re-coating anyway. When I welded them, the entire receiver was already stripped. But I can also change my own flat tire on the side of the road! Real Mr. Technical here. Honestly, what it comes down to is bragging rights, quality workmanship & resale value. There must be a reason why Tromix & all the other quality smiths weld them up. And I got tuned mags coming out of my ears. 2 surefire, 6 AGP, 1 shitty ProMag, 1 Russian 5, 1 Russian 8 & 1 more Russian 8 dropped in the mail yesterday by Oleg.... Even with all the added expense of welded holes. I seem to have had a manic episode with mags. It's ridiculous. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 . . and I'll ask again: Who makes a hole plug to fill in the old trigger hole? don't know who makes them, but I found them at the speciality draws in LOWES So Lowes has ¾" rectangular hole plugs? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matthew Hopkins 1,065 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 [ So Lowes has ¾" rectangular hole plugs? I really don't know, I used 3/16th plug holes, I opened up the holes with a 3/16th drill bit then popped them in Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmax4x4 68 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 [ So Lowes has ¾" rectangular hole plugs? I really don't know, I used 3/16th plug holes, I opened up the holes with a 3/16th drill bit then popped them in He is talking about the slot hole that the old sporting trigger stuck out of. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 [ So Lowes has ¾" rectangular hole plugs? I really don't know, I used 3/16th plug holes, I opened up the holes with a 3/16th drill bit then popped them in He is talking about the slot hole that the old sporting trigger stuck out of. The old sporter trigger hole is completely covered by the pistol grip and shouldn't be visible when the conversion is finished. As for the old pin holes somehow compromising structural integrity, I disagree. Personally, I believe applying unnecessary welds to the receiver is a far greater concern because the heat applied anneals the surrounding metal to some degree, and the more welds, the more potential for structural issues. I have seen a number of posts from members complaining about deformed trunnions after cycling high brass. I strongly suspect that at least some of these problems arise because a backplate has been welded to the rear of the receiver and the surrounding metal -- including the trunnion has been annealed and softened. No question that some of these mods look great. Personally though, I would not want to rely upon a gun built around a receiver with extensive after market welds applied without concern for the effect to the integrity of the temper of the metal. JMHO WS 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 The old sporter trigger hole is completely covered by the pistol grip and shouldn't be visible when the conversion is finished. As for the old pin holes somehow compromising structural integrity, I disagree. Personally, I believe applying unnecessary welds to the receiver is a far greater concern because the heat applied anneals the surrounding metal to some degree, and the more welds, the more potential for structural issues. I have seen a number of posts from members complaining about deformed trunnions after cycling high brass. I strongly suspect that at least some of these problems arise because a backplate has been welded to the rear of the receiver and the surrounding metal -- including the trunnion has been annealed and softened. No question that some of these mods look great. Personally though, I would not want to rely upon a gun built around a receiver with extensive after market welds applied without concern for the effect to the integrity of the temper of the metal. JMHO WS If the heat from the welding cause more trouble than not doing it, why does Tromix / Krebs / Red Jacket / et al do it? You may not realize this, but heat treat doesn't matter except around the hammer and trigger axis holes and the bolt carrier guide rails. I don't think you realize just how little heat is actually put in to the receiver with a tig welder, either. Now, if you break out the brazing rods and go to town with an oxy-acetylene torch, yeah, you're gonna barbecue your gun (that's why tigs are the preferred welder). P.S. I'm not talking about the tiny pinholes on the sides, I'm talking the old trigger hole on the bottom. My .223 conversion pistol grip would never stay tight until I stuck a side-folder reinforcement plate in between the PG and the receiver (too much flex in that weakened area). I am gonna get the holes welded up because they might as well be all done at the same time as the old trigger hole. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 A proper weld uses stronger material than the base metal. Heat and distortion are a issue in many applications where welders are used. Indeed TIG would be preffered(its just cleaner) But MIG is used in many auto body situations due to the low heat involved not warping the metal as much. Either method should suit your purposes just fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Babblemk77 1 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Here you guys go! Carolina shooter carries plugs for the old trigger holes! http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-149/Saiga-FCG-hole-plugs/Detail Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Babblemk77 1 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Here you guys go! Carolina shooter carries plugs for the old trigger holes! http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-149/Saiga-FCG-hole-plugs/Detail I just realized they want you to drill out to 3/16ths.. Im sure your local hardware shop would carry something usable to fill the old trigger group holes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Babblemk77 1 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Here you guys go! Carolina shooter carries plugs for the old trigger holes! http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-149/Saiga-FCG-hole-plugs/Detail I just realized they want you to drill out to 3/16ths.. Im sure your local hardware shop would carry something usable to fill the old trigger group holes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 (edited) The old sporter trigger hole is completely covered by the pistol grip and shouldn't be visible when the conversion is finished. As for the old pin holes somehow compromising structural integrity, I disagree. Personally, I believe applying unnecessary welds to the receiver is a far greater concern because the heat applied anneals the surrounding metal to some degree, and the more welds, the more potential for structural issues. I have seen a number of posts from members complaining about deformed trunnions after cycling high brass. I strongly suspect that at least some of these problems arise because a backplate has been welded to the rear of the receiver and the surrounding metal -- including the trunnion has been annealed and softened. No question that some of these mods look great. Personally though, I would not want to rely upon a gun built around a receiver with extensive after market welds applied without concern for the effect to the integrity of the temper of the metal. JMHO WS If the heat from the welding cause more trouble than not doing it, why does Tromix / Krebs / Red Jacket / et al do it? You may not realize this, but heat treat doesn't matter except around the hammer and trigger axis holes and the bolt carrier guide rails. I don't think you realize just how little heat is actually put in to the receiver with a tig welder, either. Now, if you break out the brazing rods and go to town with an oxy-acetylene torch, yeah, you're gonna barbecue your gun (that's why tigs are the preferred welder). P.S. I'm not talking about the tiny pinholes on the sides, I'm talking the old trigger hole on the bottom. My .223 conversion pistol grip would never stay tight until I stuck a side-folder reinforcement plate in between the PG and the receiver (too much flex in that weakened area). I am gonna get the holes welded up because they might as well be all done at the same time as the old trigger hole. I can't speak for anyone else. I've been designing for and working in metals most of my adult life. I understand the effects of heat on metal very well. When you are discussing professionals, I am inclined to believe that they know what they are doing, and have the wherewithal to heat treat and temper the metals they work with. However, most of the folks who seek advice here on the forum do not have that kind of expertise, and I am personally disinclined to advise them to weld on, or apply heat to the receivers of their personal conversions. But that is just one mans opinion. WS Edited January 22, 2010 by WaffenSchmied 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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