Op-rod faliure

[Gronk 0]

I bouhgt myeslf a Sagia 12 a while ago, had a local smithy do the pistol grip conversion and cut down on a Form 4. The gas systen was not cut down or modified. Semms like it took forever for the Form 4 to clear and finally I was ably to function test my new evil shotgun.

 

Then I learned about the issues with P-mags, AGP mags and Surefires.

 

Once I got past the feeding issues I dumped about ten rounds downrange and then she stopped on me. After clearing the mag & FTF round I found a little section of the operating rod. tThe dang rod had broken into three sections.

 

The rod appears to be Metal Injection Molded. I was surprised to find a MIM part. It broke right where the rod threads into the bolt carrier and snapped off about a 3/8ths long section.

I'm having a new steel rod fabricated as I don't want to run the risk of having an identical part put in.

 

I've done a search but turned up nothing. Am I the only dumb schmuck to have this happen ?

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I havn't heard of original Saiga 12 operating rods failing unless where was something wrong with the gas system.

 

What gas setting was it on? what were you firing?

[sunnybean 939]

Tapco made new rods at one point for the S-12, but then they had a recall. I'm not sure what the status is now.

 

You might ask Cadiz Gun Works or RAAC to see if they have any laying around, for sale.

 

On most SBSs they cut the Op rods down. On an 8" they are cut at the threads. On a 12" they leave over an inch (maybe two) of the Op rod remaining. You really should move/cut the gas system down. How far did you cut the barrel? Your probably going to have reliability/cycling issues if the gas system was not moved.

[Gronk 0]

What gas setting was it on? what were you firing?

 

Don't know, the gun's in the shop right now. Was shooting Remington bulk pack 2.5" 00 buck & 2.5" slugger's.

 

 

You might ask Cadiz Gun Works or RAAC to see if they have any laying around, for sale.

 

How far did you cut the barrel? Your probably going to have reliability/cycling issues if the gas system was not moved.

 

Having a steel op rod fabricated to replace the MIM part. I don't trust MIM parts.

 

Barrel is down to 14" to fit a porkypine.

The gun was function tested by the shop and worked fine. (So they say.)

[sunnybean 939]

You're shooting high brass rounds (probably 2 3/4" not 2.5"). You would want the gas setting on #1 (less gas). Always start on #1. If it won't cycle then try #2. You might have had it on #2 and beat the carrier too hard. I'd also ask the shop if they opened the gas ports at all. They may not have moved the FGB back but they may have opened up the ports some.

[Gibbles 23]

What parts did they replace for 922r?

 

They may of replaced the rod with that tapco one...

[sunnybean 939]

What parts did they replace for 922r?

 

They may of replaced the rod with that tapco one...

 

It's NFA, 922r doesn't apply.

[Gibbles 23]

What parts did they replace for 922r?

 

They may of replaced the rod with that tapco one...

 

It's NFA, 922r doesn't apply.

 

Carry on then.

[Razorback 72]

You're not the first with a broken one, Mississippi Auto Arms has the Tapco replacement part."You can order the rod for the rifle and write in the comment section to send the non922r rod for the saiga 12 and we will get the piston sent to you"I got this above from one of the vendors on the Forum. Mississippi Auto Arms.

Here's a link to the other thread with the broken rod. http://forum.saiga-1...l=&fromsearch=1

When you replace the rod with the new one make sure it's seated so only 3.4" is exposed, use some red locktite on it to make sure it doesn't decide to back out, and use a punch and hammer to repunch the sides of the bolt carrier to lock the rod in place. Good Luck!!!

I'd offer you my old one, but I changed it so I wouldn't have to worry about it breaking, and at the time The Tapco rod "was considered a 922R" part.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Razorback

[Norseman 0]

Your Saiga was converted when we were doing a few for the shop as well, we shortened the gas system, the gas pistons were made by a local machinist using the wrong steel. I have examined the parts of your piston, it was some type of cast metal (not cool) We have now fabricated a new piston. The gun is scheduled to be test fired this week. Unfortunately these were some of the first conversions we did and there was a learning curve (i.e. do all the work in house and check all the parts we order) We will warranty any problems with the shotgun that we caused.

 

Sorry about that,

-E

[sapper1371usmc 107]

Thanks for posting your response Norseman. Glad to see you guys stand behind your work and man enough to admit mistakes. The OP should be real happy when he gets his s12 back.

[havok 21]

Your Saiga was converted when we were doing a few for the shop as well, we shortened the gas system, the gas pistons were made by a local machinist using the wrong steel. I have examined the parts of your piston, it was some type of cast metal (not cool) We have now fabricated a new piston. The gun is scheduled to be test fired this week. Unfortunately these were some of the first conversions we did and there was a learning curve (i.e. do all the work in house and check all the parts we order) We will warranty any problems with the shotgun that we caused.

 

Sorry about that,

-E

 

Not tring to be a dick but,

Did you try this setup on some of your guns, long before modding customers guns and giving it to them to be the ginniepig? I doesn't seem that way by your post.

Did you even test fire the gun before giving the gun to the customer? His gun failed with just over 10 rounds.

Somebody could have got hurt or killed.

You should have used the same parts in your gun and testfired a few 1,000 rounds before even thinking about taking a payment on a build.

Again not tring to be a dick but I don't think customer's should be test dummies for untested part's.

[3ac6ucb 24]

I bouhgt myeslf a Sagia 12 a while ago, had a local smithy do the pistol grip conversion and cut down on a Form 4. The gas systen was not cut down or modified.

 

Your Saiga was converted when we were doing a few for the shop as well, we shortened the gas system,

 

Something does not add up....

[Norseman 0]

Your Saiga was converted when we were doing a few for the shop as well, we shortened the gas system, the gas pistons were made by a local machinist using the wrong steel. I have examined the parts of your piston, it was some type of cast metal (not cool) We have now fabricated a new piston. The gun is scheduled to be test fired this week. Unfortunately these were some of the first conversions we did and there was a learning curve (i.e. do all the work in house and check all the parts we order) We will warranty any problems with the shotgun that we caused.

 

Sorry about that,

-E

 

Not tring to be a dick but,

Did you try this setup on some of your guns, long before modding customers guns and giving it to them to be the ginniepig? I doesn't seem that way by your post.

Did you even test fire the gun before giving the gun to the customer? His gun failed with just over 10 rounds.

Somebody could have got hurt or killed.

You should have used the same parts in your gun and testfired a few 1,000 rounds before even thinking about taking a payment on a build.

Again not tring to be a dick but I don't think customer's should be test dummies for untested part's.

 

We have done many conversions in the past. We had a shop gun that we cut down to 8" used all the same specs for that gun as we use on customer guns. We test fire all the guns after conversion before we modify the gas ports. We have fired 1000s of rounds through the gun we made for the shop to make sure it was safe.

 

When the OP's gun came in we were in the process of doing 3 other 8" guns, the gas pistons were made by a local machinist for us as well as some other parts. When we assembled them there was nothing obviosly wrong with the pistons, so we carried on. The gun was test fired with some 00 buckshot, probably 40-50 rounds, it functioned fine. It was then duracoated and sent down the road.

 

-E

[IronRonin 19]

My op-rod as a very small amount of play to it and my gun is fairly new...is this normal?

[Nailbomb 10,221]

perfectly normal.

[Gronk 0]

Sorry about my lack of reply to this thread, I've been busy.

 

Now to give closure to the issue...

 

In all fairness, they made a mistake but they also took care of me.

[hobbyshooter 59]

Nothing in any of my Saigas appear to be MIM.

[Gronk 0]

We will warranty any problems with the shotgun that we caused.

 

Sorry about that,

-E

 

Well, I've e-mailed you via the link on your profile. There are additional unrelated issues concerning the threads for the muzzle device and the broken TAPCO stock, I brought the firearm into your shop today but you weren't in yet. I've suggested a particular replacement stock to the fellow who checked the shotgun in for repair.

 

I'll be waiting for a response from you.

 

----------------------------------------

ETA contact made, repairs underway.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Gronk

[Gronk 0]

Conclusion;

 

Took my Saiga home today. The shop took care of all the issues I've had so far. The broken stock was a Tapco. IMHO that has no place on a 12ga shotgun. I specified the billet aluminum stock by Missippi Auto Arms set up as a left side folder and this is an incredibly strong setup. There's even enough clearance with the stock folded to clear a mounted optic on the siderail.

 

As for the muzzle device that was/is a PorkyPine from Chaos. Turns out the threads had stripped. The shop contacted Chaos and the device was either replaced or repaired it's good as new and that's what counts for me.

 

Thanks Eric !

[Stansplace 414]

My op-rod as a very small amount of play to it and my gun is fairly new...is this normal?

 

 

perfectly normal.

 

 

Mine was the same way and it is normal from the factory. However, that being said, having a loose part like that in my gun drove me batshit. I drilled out the dimples, removed the rod, cleaned up the threads, reinstalled to where it was tight, used red locktite, then drilled through the op-rod and installed a pin. Mine isn't going anywhere and I have the option of installing an aftermarket one if and when I choose. Even though it isn't considered a 922R part.

 

 

[Norseman 0]

Conclusion;

 

Took my Saiga home today. The shop took care of all the issues I've had so far. The broken stock was a Tapco. IMHO that has no place on a 12ga shotgun. I specified the billet aluminum stock by Missippi Auto Arms set up as a left side folder and this is an incredibly strong setup. There's even enough clearance with the stock folded to clear a mounted optic on the siderail.

 

As for the muzzle device that was/is a PorkyPine from Chaos. Turns out the threads had stripped. The shop contacted Chaos and the device was either replaced or repaired it's good as new and that's what counts for me.

 

Thanks Eric !

 

 

I am Glad you are happy with your toy. We have decided that we will be doing any future conversions using one of the many metal stocks available and the Ace folding mechanism. I am not a fan of the tapco after seeing what happened to yours. The guys down at Tapco had said they have seen this problem on standard AKs, not instilling me with a lot of confidence.

 

-E

[raidersfan_5544 57]

I didnt even know MAA made an aluminum skeleton stock. It looks alot like the tromix stock but in aluminum not polymer. From the picture it dosent look like it comes with a recoil pad. 12ga shells with an aluminum recoil pad is going to hurt, you should look into getting it fitted with a grind to fit limbsaver. If the dimensions on the MAA and tromix stocks are the same then any of the limbsavers sold to be used with the tromix stock should work with yours. Just a thought.