Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Alexc.s.

Converting adds how much value?

Recommended Posts

If you had a saiga and converted it, the parts on their own are worth some money.

But you took the gun and converted it, so theres work in the gun too.

If parts on their own are worth $450, should converting it add value?

How much is a convertion worth? $10..$50..$100?

I did a search and never found out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well your question is very "thick" actually. hard to explain it without a huge post.

 

 

it basically can be summed up on "who did it".

 

 

if you are talking monetary values on guns whos configurations have been altered, well, you start to enter a whole other page of the gun world. you get into who was licensed to legally do it at the time, if the taxes were paid on it, etc etc etc, its a real headache.

 

 

generally, conversions done by existing or previously existing legitimate FFL SOT holders are worth more.

 

 

how much more? heck, I dont know. this brand of firearms does tend to increase in value, either way, so maybe look at it from that standpoint.

 

the economy is shot right now, so gauging accurate values on the saigas is kinda difficult right now. too many models, too many options, and too many builders.

 

 

one place you can start for value is who pays their taxes and puts their maker's mark on the guns that are altered, for starters. If the gun does not have additional markings on it and is "converted" , well, I wouldnt buy it, so its worth about zilch to me.

 

 

however, a converted gun, with a licensed maker's mark added to it, does add value to the firearm, partly due to the company reputation, as well as the credibility of the change of configuration in the eyes of the law.

 

 

 

if you are going to keep it for personal use and shit, thats great, do it yourself..... but if you want to make it an investment that adds value to the item in the future, a paper trail is very good on these. in the latter case, a stock gun, or any conversion which has the maker's mark on it BY LAW is a good investment on these.

 

 

they are still cheap, even considering the current economy. Its a hell of a gun from 300 to 1600 bucks, guys. buy the shit outta these.

 

 

sorry if it sounds like a sales pitch, but Im really being honest here.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A basic conversion by a competent gunsmith adds about $300-$400 value depending on the parts used and/or modded and how many extra frills. I believe Red Jacket charges $350 for a basic conversion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A basic conversion by a competent gunsmith adds about $300-$400 value depending on the parts used and/or modded and how many extra frills. I believe Red Jacket charges $350 for a basic conversion.

 

I don't think this is the case, at least not for a "basic" conversion. I did a basic conversion on a 223, and later (last week) decided to sell it at a gun show. Being under the impression that my labor was worth something, I initially tried to sell for $270 more (after having put about $130 into parts). This was way optimistic; there were no takers, not even when I lowered the price somewhat. One guy offered me $400 - that is, to take a loss. I'd rather have a nice .223 Saiga for SHTF purposes than take a loss on the gun.

Edited by Jim Digriz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guns, car's , electronic's, jewelry, powersport product's never hold a good resale value 2seconds after you buy it, unless it's rare. The more they make the less it worth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guns, car's , electronic's, jewelry, powersport product's never hold a good resale value 2seconds after you buy it, unless it's rare. The more they make the less it worth.

I've noticed that S-12 prices keep rising...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would rate the Saiga, in most any well executed variation, as a sound investment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Depends on what you consider value...

 

Straight cost, yes, you'll be able to sell a converted saiga for more than a stock saiga. If you use the cheapest conversion parts you can get, you're not going to get much more for it. Stick with the higher quality American made parts and you're going to build an expensive gun.

 

If you consider that value can also mean the quality, comfort, and reliability of the firearm, then you're going to increase that significantly.

 

If you're buying a Saiga strictly for investment, you're probably not going to make out very well, it is possibly but unlikely that your firearm is going to double in value. At shows, it seems like $550 is the most people want to pay for the stock gun, once the price point hits $600, they just sit on the table, two months ago, I saw some for $650; no one bought them.

 

Firearm restoration has always seemed like car restoration to me, you might have put in $10k in time and parts, but you'll never see that money again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6-8 months ago, a converted Saiga X39 would fetch about $200 over what they were selling for in factory configuration (which was astronomical, upwards of $600). Now that the whole market has stagnated, its really impossible to put a dollar value on anything. Its worth what someone will pay for it, which varies by person. I don't think there's any sort of 'standard' consensus that would allow you to put a price on any one aspect of a conversion, ie 'welded holes add $50, riveted trigger guard adds $20, bolt-on trigger guard detracts $15, muzzle device adds $100, unless its clip on, then only $50.'

 

Sounds like the tax code. (which reminds me, I fucking hate the IRS, got my W2's today.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm... So if my guns worth $700 in parts, I can charge what ever I want and hope to sell it...

Ya. ok then. I'll ask for $800 trade at my store, and hope for the best.

I only asked due to the fact that I sort of like the Ruger sr556 thats been sitting in the shop for a while.

My mind is all over the place on if I should sell the saiga I just converted, and trade to the AR piston gun. :cryss:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guns, car's , electronic's, jewelry, powersport product's never hold a good resale value 2seconds after you buy it, unless it's rare. The more they make the less it worth.

I've noticed that S-12 prices keep rising...

 

Your looking in the wrong place's. I paid $550+sh at centerfire, who was the cheapest I found last year. At the same time our site sponsers where all over 600-650+sh for a s12 1 year ago this week. Now they can be had for $500 with free s&h. So I would have lost $50 if I did not even open the package,and found a private buyer today. Now If I walked out of the FFL that I sent the gun to and walk into any gun store that day in my area and tried to sell it for $400 I would have been lucky to get it.

I will agree that they are up from a few years ago when no one knew of them. "me included"

No gun store and almost all private buyer's will never give you anything close to what you paid for it even if you never stuck the mag into it to see what to looked like. Unless you find a sucker and more then one enter our live's everyday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been offered absolutely stupid money for my TROMIX guns from time to time.........

 

......still have 'em all, too..........Some things are better than money in my world..........

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been offered absolutely stupid money for my TROMIX guns from time to time.........

 

......still have 'em all, too..........Some things are better than money in my world..........

 

I think that the difference between a Tromix gun and something you do yourself is pretty apparent. Aside from the professional work and the experience, there's definitely a degree of 'name power' that comes with the Tromix 'brand.'

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of people have different ideas about what they want for a conversion. Different stocks,forearms, and muzzle brakes to name a few. I like my Saiga and it's configuration but someone else might not be a fan.

 

 

People are likely going to be wary of a kitchen table gunsmith's gun vs a professionally converted gun. Better finish, welded components, function testing, and someone to contact if you have a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm... So if my guns worth $700 in parts, I can charge what ever I want and hope to sell it...

Ya. ok then. I'll ask for $800 trade at my store, and hope for the best.

I only asked due to the fact that I sort of like the Ruger sr556 thats been sitting in the shop for a while.

My mind is all over the place on if I should sell the saiga I just converted, and trade to the AR piston gun. :cryss:

 

Keep the Saiga, and save up for a regular direct-impingement AR. Don't fall prey to the "The only good AR, is a piston AR". I'm not knocking the Ruger, as I've never handled one. I'm just saying that if you buy/build a quality AR, it doesn't matter if it's piston or DI. It will run like butter and gobble up even the shittiest ammo. All of mine do.

 

If money is an issue, start building little by little. Even just assembling the lower from stripped, and buying a complete upper will be cheaper than buying a complete AR and you'll end up with exactly what you want. But I would keep the Saiga. That's just my $.02 on the matter.

 

I've been offered absolutely stupid money for my TROMIX guns from time to time.........

 

......still have 'em all, too..........Some things are better than money in my world..........

 

I think that the difference between a Tromix gun and something you do yourself is pretty apparent. Aside from the professional work and the experience, there's definitely a degree of 'name power' that comes with the Tromix 'brand.'

 

I agree.

 

I just read on Arfcom, where Tony replied to someone asking who carried Tromix guns (besides Tromix, obviously) and Tony said "And no....I am not going to hire a bunch of guys to crank out half-ass guns. If you buy a Tromix, I personally built it."

 

I never knew Tony did every single Tromix conversion himself. I figured he had some sort of staff to help in that area. That's pretty bad-ass that he's converted every Tromix Saiga floating around out there. That's a metric fuck-ton of work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm... So if my guns worth $700 in parts, I can charge what ever I want and hope to sell it...

Ya. ok then. I'll ask for $800 trade at my store, and hope for the best.

I only asked due to the fact that I sort of like the Ruger sr556 thats been sitting in the shop for a while.

My mind is all over the place on if I should sell the saiga I just converted, and trade to the AR piston gun. :cryss:

 

If you tried that with anything other than a Tromix S12 I am afraid you would get laughed out of the store. You can buy a brand new SGL-21 for $705 right now which is expensive. No way someone will give $800 or even $700 on a self-converted Saiga.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I chose to keep my saiga 223 and I ordered an ar mag adapter from MAA. If I buy an AR it will be DI. I also got an offer of $750 for my gun, so my shop must be rich. :dollar:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I chose to keep my saiga 223 and I ordered an ar mag adapter from MAA. If I buy an AR it will be DI. I also got an offer of $750 for my gun, so my shop must be rich. :dollar:

 

Sounds like a good plan to me.

 

By the way, I highly recommend getting a BCG and upper from BCM, when the time comes for you to start your AR project.

Edited by -Shooter-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I chose to keep my saiga 223 and I ordered an ar mag adapter from MAA. If I buy an AR it will be DI. I also got an offer of $750 for my gun, so my shop must be rich. :dollar:

 

 

$750??? And you didn't take it because??? lol. Good gun shops typically offer about 80% for trades. I am just not buying that your rifle is worth almost $950. Again a brand new Arsenal rifle is cheaper. 1+1 does not equal 3. No self conversion gun in .223 is going for $950 private sale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must be a good salesmen the guns got $700 in parts. Like I said MSA mag adapter is what my gun was "asking" for. I didn't take the money manly due to the fact that it's my only black rifle and I like the fact I put 6 hours of work in to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must be a good salesmen the guns got $700 in parts. Like I said MSA mag adapter is what my gun was "asking" for. I didn't take the money manly due to the fact that it's my only black rifle and I like the fact I put 6 hours of work in to it.

 

Talk is cheap. I just don't buy it. Funny how you only had $450 in parts and now its $700. LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must be a good salesmen the guns got $700 in parts. Like I said MSA mag adapter is what my gun was "asking" for. I didn't take the money manly due to the fact that it's my only black rifle and I like the fact I put 6 hours of work in to it.

 

Talk is cheap. I just don't buy it. Funny how you only had $450 in parts and now its $700. LOL

 

$450 is just a basic conversion. At the time I was just asking. If you want a full parts list I can tell you and post a pic, where did I put my camra...

Edit: Here it is. I will wait on my adapter to put it in the picture post.

post-20983-12643087061446_thumb.jpg

Edited by Datastick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that I have had my S-308 posted for sale on several forums and the response has been very dismal. Maybe everyone is out of cash (like me). It is a 21 inch conversion done with high quality parts and it looks like if I can break even on my parts cost I will be lucky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A conversion basically falls in the realm of customization. Customization is an investment in your own enjoyment, or perhaps more of a gamble (as most investments are.) Back when there was less info on conversions and fewer people were comfortable doing it, it may have added some value, if you were already recognized as a knowledgeable person about the subject. And in the case of Tromix conversions, the fact that it is a recognized conversion and that they are limited in number adds some supply/demand economics.

 

The bigger picture - guns are a good investment to KEEP. They are only a good investment to buy and sell if you are good at the business or have a time machine. If most people knew what guns would go up in value in the future, they would buy more and then they wouldn't go up in value because there would have been more of them made to meet the investment demand.

 

On the other hand, buying guns as consumption spending and then selling them when you want to move on to something else is a better hobby than automobiles. You generally don't lose as much with time and use as you do with a car or truck. But you will still lose money changing your mind about what guns you want to own. If I had known everything I would have in my current collection years ago, I would be a little farther ahead financially. But for the education I got in the process, it wasn't a bad deal.

 

Back to conversion, only spend to convert if you have someone interested in the conversion and you know you'll add extra $$ to the price, or you'll at least do ok and it will help you win the sale. Or if you plan to keep the Saiga and want it converted.

Edited by BattleRifleG3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BattleRifle has the right idea, and there's other arguments as well. Customization vs. restoration, I fell into that with my '72 duster, I kept it a slant 6 but souped the hell out of it! Headers, dual exhaust, 4 barrel, big cam, etc. I paid $2000 for it in '97 put $6000 all together into it and I can't get $3000 for it now, although it turns a lot of heads.

 

Back to Saigas, there are a couple reasons they are sought after: #1 It's a factory new gun from the original factory and not a half assed com bloc knock off or frankenstiened assembly of parts. #2 that ensures that your gun has never been fired on an American-and that is a big deal to a lot of people. #3 A converted piece will add value because of the gains in ergonomics, 922r compliance, and cool factor.

 

I do my own work because of my machinist background, but I think if any gunsmith/gun shop did the work and provided the parts list they used, a $100-$150 profit would probably sell. Places like Tromix will fetch more because of the reputation, etc. As for value, guns fall into the commodity category for me. Like silver and gold, the prices are driven by market trends. I got my S-12 at the wrong time for $559 about 3 months prior to the election, they have gone down $50 since then, but will go back up as new threats arise and the dollar continues to fall. Over all, you can't go wrong investing in firearms due to the usefulness and fun you will have for years to come, and if needed, they will always sell at a higher value than any other object you own-car, furniture, electronics, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Things are worth however much people are willing to pay.

 

I only have around $1500 in my Saiga .223 if I count the Aimpoint.

I've had people offer me a little more than that (one guy offered $1500 without the Aimpoint) simply because they had never seen an AK take AR mags before, no had they seen an AK shoot 1.5 MOA. But this is my baby, so you can't have her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always get a good laugh outta'da folks who're trying to sell their firearms, and they list what they paid for the gun, every part they added and the price of the parts, and expect to get every penny back... Plus some.

 

:what: Get a dose of reality.

 

Customized/converted firearms are only worth what someone will pay, and quite often, those parts you prized are just shit that has to changed to another type by the new owner.

Edited by ChileRelleno

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guns, car's , electronic's, jewelry, powersport product's never hold a good resale value 2seconds after you buy it, unless it's rare. The more they make the less it worth.

I've noticed that S-12 prices keep rising...

I would say from my experience that do to the rarity of the S-12, It is the best bet. All others just fall into the AK slot & fetch the according prices. Especially the 7.62 x .39 mm.

It's the rarity of the converted S-12 that accounts for this anomaly.

 

Also, one should check for quality & internals, not just a popular name.

If you think I'm incorrect, go buy a promag. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm... So if my guns worth $700 in parts, I can charge what ever I want and hope to sell it...

Ya. ok then. I'll ask for $800 trade at my store, and hope for the best.

I only asked due to the fact that I sort of like the Ruger sr556 thats been sitting in the shop for a while.

My mind is all over the place on if I should sell the saiga I just converted, and trade to the AR piston gun. :cryss:

 

Keep the Saiga, and save up for a regular direct-impingement AR. Don't fall prey to the "The only good AR, is a piston AR". I'm not knocking the Ruger, as I've never handled one. I'm just saying that if you buy/build a quality AR, it doesn't matter if it's piston or DI. It will run like butter and gobble up even the shittiest ammo. All of mine do.

 

If money is an issue, start building little by little. Even just assembling the lower from stripped, and buying a complete upper will be cheaper than buying a complete AR and you'll end up with exactly what you want. But I would keep the Saiga. That's just my $.02 on the matter.

 

I've been offered absolutely stupid money for my TROMIX guns from time to time.........

 

......still have 'em all, too..........Some things are better than money in my world..........

 

I think that the difference between a Tromix gun and something you do yourself is pretty apparent. Aside from the professional work and the experience, there's definitely a degree of 'name power' that comes with the Tromix 'brand.'

 

I agree.

 

I just read on Arfcom, where Tony replied to someone asking who carried Tromix guns (besides Tromix, obviously) and Tony said "And no....I am not going to hire a bunch of guys to crank out half-ass guns. If you buy a Tromix, I personally built it."

 

I never knew Tony did every single Tromix conversion himself. I figured he had some sort of staff to help in that area. That's pretty bad-ass that he's converted every Tromix Saiga floating around out there. That's a metric fuck-ton of work.

 

I wouldn't be upset if Jeaux or Bob worked on my shotgun, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

Tromix - Lead Delivery Systems
Dinzag Arms
CHAOS, Inc
Mississippi Auto Arms, Inc
Cobra's Custom
Carolina Shooters Supply
R & R Targets
LONE STAR ARMS
SGM Tactical
Mach 1 Arsenal
K-VAR
C&S Metall-Werkes
American Specialty Ammo
Csspecs Magazines
Phoenix Technology
Evlutionz LLC


  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×
×
  • Create New...