olderandslower 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 I just received a letter from the BATF because I was inquiring about importing some mags for myself in small quantity, that "in short" says that they are going to announce a ruling that ALL semi-auto shotguns that are capable of holding more than 5 rounds of ammo (which means anything that has a detachable mag. etc.) is going to be declared a destructive device and all importation of such parts to convert existing shotguns will become illegal (This includes all magazines over 5 rounds capacity). And this is supposed to happen within 2-3 months.What can we do about this! Can't they give us a break? I guess I'll have to buy everything while I still can. Life's a bitch sometimes. Jman <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What exactly did the ATF letter say. All semi-auto shotguns? That's cool, except there are probably 5 million Remington 1100 - 1187 shotguns capable of having a extended magazine tube... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyJ 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Now go ahead - tell me that it takes a drum magazine to fail the "sporting purposes" test... Go ahead, I dare you! Then it will be your turn to "show me this documentation"!From an e-mail from the ATF:-----Original Message-----From: Williams, Ronald E. Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 2:13 PM To: Crowley, Thomas J. (Dallas) Subject: RE: Firearm (legal/tech) question Tom -- I think Firearms Tech is going to have to answer this question. I don't know that shotguns which take more than 5 shells in its chamber would be an NFA firearm. We have held that the Striker 12 and Streetsweeper shotguns are NFAs, but they take more than 10 shells and usually have a spring driven revolving magazine. Not an official ruling, but certainly is an indication... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 please post this letter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rochte 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 "Not an official ruling, but certainly is an indication..." Agreed - thanks for sharing that! I hope the other letter is posted soon, too... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeric 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 they are going to announce a ruling that ALL semi-auto shotguns that are capable of holding more than 5 rounds of ammo (which means anything that has a detachable mag. etc.) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not sure that does mean anything with a detachable mag...it depends on how they word the ruling I guess... the mag is capable, not the shotgun. From an e-mail from the ATF: -----Original Message----- From: Williams, Ronald E. Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 2:13 PM To: Crowley, Thomas J. (Dallas) Subject: RE: Firearm (legal/tech) question Tom -- I think Firearms Tech is going to have to answer this question. I don't know that shotguns which take more than 5 shells in its chamber would be an NFA firearm. We have held that the Striker 12 and Streetsweeper shotguns are NFAs, but they take more than 10 shells and usually have a spring driven revolving magazine. Not an official ruling, but certainly is an indication... Yes, that's IS an indication of something. 5 shells in a chamber? Now that would be something. Mouth breathing fucktards indeed... Jeric Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gummerfan 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 ROTFLMAO!!! Hey, you guys must admit that five rounds in the chamber WOULD be pretty destructive!! Gummerfan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nightscool 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Please post the letter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyJ 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Oh man, I can't believe I overlooked that when reading. I guess the rumors about them not having any engineers at all is true... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shooter2 5 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 (edited) "in short" says that they are going to announce a ruling that ALL semi-auto shotguns that are capable of holding more than 5 rounds of ammo is going to be declared a destructive device and all importation of such parts to convert existing shotguns will become illegal I'll believe it when I see the letter. If they declare ALL SEMI-AUTO SHOTGUNS capable of holding more than 5 rounds to be DDs, a lot of people are gonna be pissed. There's a blue million 1100s, 11-87s and Benellis out there with extended tubes. My god, think of the 3-gun shooters! Not to mention ALL of our Saigas will be affected, since they all are capable of holding more than 5 rounds even if we don't own the mags (as was the case under the '94 AWB). And if they declare the guns DDs, why would they halt the importation of "conversion parts" (ie >5 round mags)? It would still be perfectly legal to make a DD, as long as you register it. Not to mention that said "parts" would also have a legitimate use as spares for existing registered DDs. And even ass-u-ming that importation of mags IS halted (hell, it's pretty much that way already), that would just be a bigger impetus for some enterprising soul here in the States to start making them. Not to mention we would have a glut of mags enter the market from all the folks who decide to sell their Saigas rather than register them... Edited April 1, 2005 by shooter2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tiny 2 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Is this a April fools joke? QUOTE(jman @ Apr 1 2005, 08:54 AM) I just received a letter from the BATF because I was inquiring about importing some mags for myself in small quantity, that "in short" says that they are going to announce a ruling that ALL semi-auto shotguns that are capable of holding more than 5 rounds of ammo (which means anything that has a detachable mag. etc.) is going to be declared a destructive device and all importation of such parts to convert existing shotguns will become illegal (This includes all magazines over 5 rounds capacity). And this is supposed to happen within 2-3 months. What can we do about this! Can't they give us a break? I guess I'll have to buy everything while I still can. Life's a bitch sometimes. Jman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
olderandslower 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 It would be great if it was an April Fool's joke. However, I'll go with McUzi's pronouncements. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 So that means they already have been addressing the issue of the Saiga12 and all other semi auto shotties with a detagable mag? The bolt action Mossberg and pump action Remmington can have a drum hanging underneath it, but if this is true and the ATF puts the squash on ALL semi auto shotties, the shotties themselves will be deemed a DD! Im not sure how many shells a Benelli holds, but it has to be one of the most respected makes of shotgun I know of. Hunters and target shooters all rave over the Benelli shotgun, and like these guys have said, there are millions of them floating around. I know it doesent use a detagable mag, so that could be the catch. I can only think of a few shotguns that are semiauto with a detachable magazine. I guess they very well could squash them all instead of just naming the few that they dont like. Saiga, Spas, Striker.... Any one else? I guess Ithica slamfires are still safe since you technically have to pump it. This just cant be real. Would the ATF really walk in and DD all semiauto detachable magazine shotguns? I never even heard of the Saiga shottie being used in a crime yet. What the hell? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Maybe the BATF has been ghosting and coasting through all the gun forums and gleaning info. Now that the ban has been lifted and some companies are manufacturing drums for everything under the sun including Glocks handguns it is possible the BATF wants to take this control step. If it is true it is too bad for everyone. If it is an April Fools thing someone is going to be on the wrong end of a verbal beating by fellow members. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyJ 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Wasn't the Streetsweeper a revolver actiongs gun? So I expect any such ruling would cover all shotguns. Not gonna happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmbswu 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Wasn't the Streetsweeper a revolver actiongs gun? So I expect any such ruling would cover all shotguns. Not gonna happen. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Streetsweeper is not a semi-automatic shotgun. It is a DAO revolver with shotgun cartridges. Would a DAO revolver fall under the "semi-automatic" ruling? With appropriate NLF size, someone could re-incarnate the Streetsweeper. That would be nice. Jimmy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jman 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 OK, OK, "APRIL FOOLS" As far as a verbal beating goes, Go for it! I can take it. But I just wanted to make a point that they have done it many times in the past, and they will do it again and again. So don't be surprised if this statement becomes a reality in the not so distant future. The good thing is that we have a few good people here that I think would do anything to try and protect our rights, not just 2nd amendment rights but all of our rights. We need to take these issues seriously because slowly but surly the power of the people is starting to dwindle. If we are not careful we will become the U.S.S.A (United Socialist States America). I hope I didn't ruffle to many feathers. I don't think it was the worst April fools joke that any of us have had! Happy April Fools Day! Jman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lagomorph 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 oh jman, you're what the spaniards call "El Ter-re-blay." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TPABA 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Yeah, I'll take one. Maybe more, depending on price. If they work, that is. If they don't, call them, saiga-12 10 round paper weights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LooneyTunes 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 (edited) well jman i must admit you had me. i bit on it pretty hard. this april fools day prank stuff among brothers in arms is getting a bit too serious for me. oh well, at the very least saiga sales were up.. if only for a day. p.s. best you watch over your shoulder for a good while my fellow netizen. i bet you can bank on some payback when the time is right. you may well be a marked man now. btw, April Fools!!! 8^) Edited April 2, 2005 by LooneyTunes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mudsock 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Listen, If the hi-cap mag do get manufactured remember your brothers in New York who are limited to 5 round mags and offer to sell us your leftovers, Please. I've resigned to the fact that I will have a non-converted Saiga-12 in this state but it's still fun to shoot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nightscool 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 that's just cruel. Likely but cruel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
strawman 2 Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Ill take 6 right now man, please save me from having to send all my money overseas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scubaduda 0 Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 I'll take 2 if they come to being. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StarLynx 0 Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Maybe the BATF has been ghosting and coasting through all the gun forums and gleaning info. Now that the ban has been lifted and some companies are manufacturing drums for everything under the sun including Glocks handguns it is possible the BATF wants to take this control step. If it is true it is too bad for everyone. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why should the ATF or any other Fed agaencys or for that matter ANY Gunbrabber org..have to scan over all these forums...when they have so many "CONCERNED CITIZENS" writing them letters telling them about a magazine that isn't even on the market ,yet??..Geez,people...let the guy make em..& sell em with a little plastic removeable block that restricts it to 5 or 8 shells...then let it be as it should be...POLICE OURSELVES..instead of alerting such agencys' to a something they may consider or otherwise write down in a report as a complaint from a "CONCERNED CITIZEN".. about someone making a NUKE Attachment for a shotgun.....believe me...Thats how it works sometimes...I've worked with some of those guys @ the ATF...some of em don't even know how to load/clean or much less accurately shoot their issued weapons..they're mostly paper pushers wanting to kiss the ass of some politician thats afraid some "CONCERNED CITIZEN" may wann'a blow their stupid law voting ass away...Between the votes they cast for raising their own salarys & OUR Taxes...to pay for it.. Just my Experienced 2 cents added..buy em..don't buy'em... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AH6IP 0 Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 I'll take ten, at least. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 I'll take ten, at least. Welcome AH6IP, Glad you found your way here. There is a great bunch of guys here always willing to help. Also alot of useful information. Good people, good resources, good fun. Enjoy, you struck gold. PS.....I like the Avitar. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StarLynx 0 Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 I forgot to add while I was spout'n off...I'll take at least two of em..& more as soon as my crew gets a look at em... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Noel_in_the_NorthWet 0 Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 I'll take 4 or 5 if they feed reliably and you can keep them below $50 a pop. Noel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmbswu 0 Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Now that we know ATF is not banning the Saiga within 2 months, I'll take at least 15 mags, too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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