Circle 10 .223 Mags won't fit

[jimdigriz 580]

I've ground down the interdiction tab at the back of the magwell, but the Circle 10 mag still will not lock. The tab is not quite as disappeared as much as the one in Nalioth's picture, but I can clearly see that the magazine is not pushing up against the back of the magwell at all. I'll try to post some pics shortly, but meanwhile, does anyone have any ideas? It's almost as if the magazine is simply too big.

 

EDITED TO ADD: It appears that the top back parts of the feed lips are knocking up against the bar that extends from one side of the receiver to the other. Is it common to have to file them down a bit to allow proper fit?

Edited January 23, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[JK-47 33]

Yes, this happens with .223 specifically some times. The 5.56x45mm round is longer than either of the russian rounds by a few millimeters, and comes much closer to the cross support, as do the mags. You can remove a little material from the back of the feed lips with no ill consequence. If you look at the Yugo M-90 and M-95 rifles, they have crossbars with a flat side milled into them which gives extra clearance to the mags.

[nalioth 405]

Yes, this happens with .223 specifically some times. The 5.56x45mm round is longer than either of the russian rounds by a few millimeters, and comes much closer to the cross support, as do the mags. You can remove a little material from the back of the feed lips with no ill consequence. If you look at the Yugo M-90 and M-95 rifles, they have crossbars with a flat side milled into them which gives extra clearance to the mags.

Instead of modding each mag, you can also relieve the center support a bit (this is common fix when Circle 10's are used in Romanian WASRs) so that you don't have any more trouble with any Circle 10 magazine.

[jimdigriz 580]

Instead of modding each mag, you can also relieve the center support a bit (this is common fix when Circle 10's are used in Romanian WASRs) so that you don't have any more trouble with any Circle 10 magazine.

 

By "relieve the center support", you mean file it a bit?

 

Also, if this happens with one Circle 10, does this necessarily mean it will happen with all Circle 10s?

[nalioth 405]

Instead of modding each mag, you can also relieve the center support a bit (this is common fix when Circle 10's are used in Romanian WASRs) so that you don't have any more trouble with any Circle 10 magazine.

 

By "relieve the center support", you mean file it a bit?

 

Also, if this happens with one Circle 10, does this necessarily mean it will happen with all Circle 10s?

Yes, file the front of it until the mag body clears (don't file more than ⅓ of it).

 

And, yes, if one Bulgarian doesn't fit your particular Saiga, odds are others might not fit, either.

[GregM1 241]

When I fit my gun for the 10's, I had to work at it for a while. I noticed there would be light pressure marks where the receiver was catching during insertion. Those let me know where to file next. They still require very firm pressure to get them to lock in. My steel Romanians fit easier than the factory mag.

[saigafreake 27]

i had to file the center support to get steel yugo mags to fit.

[jimdigriz 580]

I filed the center support a bit, and now the mag will go past the bar, but it still does not lock, and is slightly crooked. The left side is all the way up, but the right side lacks a few millimeters. Not sure what is causing this.

[russiangunrunner 10]

pics?

[jimdigriz 580]

pics?

 

I may post some later if I can't resolve. It appears that I will need to file the center bar a bit more than I thought, because the mag seems to rub it in such a way that it sends the mag off to one side. Ideally, the mag wouldn't be touching the bar at all.

 

I didn't realize filing the bar would be necessary for this. But it may be that this 07 Saiga was built slightly different than the more recent ones? (This one has been sitting in a guy's gunsafe for two years, unconverted and inactive until I bought it).

[nalioth 405]

I didn't realize filing the bar would be necessary for this. But it may be that this 07 Saiga was built slightly different than the more recent ones? (This one has been sitting in a guy's gunsafe for two years, unconverted and inactive until I bought it).

As I often repeat: This is the result of mass manufacture.

 

You are experiencing the same phenomenon that affects a very few others in that they can insert and use milsurp mags w/o a bullet guide.

 

Each Saiga that comes off the line is a little different. Each magazine that comes off the line is a little different. (Un)Fortunate coincidence takes it from there. . .

[EreadM 0]

Once you grind down the interdiction tab, is the option of using surefires and factory saiga mags out the door or can you still yank out the bullet guide and use them despite the tab being gone? I'm just asking just in case I end up being one of the lucky individuals who has to do all the extra mods other than the guide and tab and decide I don't feel like messing stuff up.

[nalioth 405]

Once you grind down the interdiction tab, is the option of using surefires and factory saiga mags out the door or can you still yank out the bullet guide and use them despite the tab being gone? I'm just asking just in case I end up being one of the lucky individuals who has to do all the extra mods other than the guide and tab and decide I don't feel like messing stuff up.

The "interdiction tab" has nothing to do with factory mags, or those mags modeled after them.

 

It is expressly designed to prohibit magazines of military design from being used in the rifle.

 

 

You shouldn't have to "yank out the bullet guide" to use factory designed mags, either (this has been discussed here many times before).

[GregM1 241]

Once you grind down the interdiction tab, is the option of using surefires and factory saiga mags out the door or can you still yank out the bullet guide and use them despite the tab being gone? I'm just asking just in case I end up being one of the lucky individuals who has to do all the extra mods other than the guide and tab and decide I don't feel like messing stuff up.

 

 

yeah, if you pull the bullet guide out, they will work like normal. You can also modify each mag to work with the bullet guide installed.

[EreadM 0]

pics?

 

I may post some later if I can't resolve. It appears that I will need to file the center bar a bit more than I thought, because the mag seems to rub it in such a way that it sends the mag off to one side. Ideally, the mag wouldn't be touching the bar at all.

 

I didn't realize filing the bar would be necessary for this. But it may be that this 07 Saiga was built slightly different than the more recent ones? (This one has been sitting in a guy's gunsafe for two years, unconverted and inactive until I bought it).

Well your not alone, I just recently found out that I've been blessed enough to have to file the stupid center support too. How did it eventually work out for you in the end. Did you get it rigged to wear the mags work flawlessly or what?

[jimdigriz 580]

Well your not alone, I just recently found out that I've been blessed enough to have to file the stupid center support too. How did it eventually work out for you in the end. Did you get it rigged to wear the mags work flawlessly or what?

 

I would say don't do it (after having done it). I filed it as far as I was comfortable filing it, not quite as far as Nalioth's max one third. The mag would go in, but not quite straight. And it wouldn't lock up. I ended up having to file the locking tab of the mag a bit; I also had to grind the back of the feed lips. Now the mag will go in and function properly, although it still goes in slightly crooked sometimes unless I pay attention. (Even if it's crooked, it still works though).

 

Also, be careful about zapping the interdiction tab beyond flattening it out. Don't actually make an indention, or you will risk not being able to use the Galil Orlites, because of the difference from the Circle 10s in regard to the locking tabs. I realized at one point that I needed to stop before that happened.

 

Anyhow, I regret having modded the gun over much. No harm done as far as I can tell, but I feel like I may have weakened it structurally. If I get any more Circle 10s, I will mod the mags, but I think I will get more Orlites, and will also try some Galil steel mags.

 

On the other hand, it may seem to you that your gun only needs slight fitting to make the Circle 10s to work. In that case, go ahead and knock it out. By my own gun needed more modification that it initially appeared.

 

Jim

Edited March 15, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[EreadM 0]

Well your not alone, I just recently found out that I've been blessed enough to have to file the stupid center support too. How did it eventually work out for you in the end. Did you get it rigged to wear the mags work flawlessly or what?

 

I would say don't do it (after having done it). I filed it as far as I was comfortable filing it, not quite as far as Nalioth's max one third. The mag would go in, but not quite straight. And it wouldn't lock up. I ended up having to file the locking tab of the mag a bit; I also had to grind the back of the feed lips. Now the mag will go in and function properly, although it still goes in slightly crooked sometimes unless I pay attention. (Even if it's crooked, it still works though).

 

 

 

Also, be careful about zapping the interdiction tab beyond flattening it out. Don't actually make an indention, or you will risk not being able to use the Galil Orlites, because of the difference from the Circle 10s in regard to the locking tabs. I realized at one point that I needed to stop before that happened.

 

Anyhow, I regret having modded the gun over much. No harm done as far as I can tell, but I feel like I may have weakened it structurally. If I get any more Circle 10s, I will mod the mags, but I think I will get more Orlites, and will also try some Galil steel mags.

 

On the other hand, it may seem to you that your gun only needs slight fitting to make the Circle 10s to work. In that case, go ahead and knock it out. By my own gun needed more modification that it initially appeared.

 

Jim

I'm at the point now where I'm about to just say F### it and stick with the orlites. I was going to do a little bit more grinding on the center support since the stupid battery keeps dying on my dremel and It looks really close to being enough to get the mag in. But if I do that and it still doesn't go in then I think I'm done grinding stuff. Thanks for the info, looks like I have the exact same dam rifle you have.

[jimdigriz 580]

I'm at the point now where I'm about to just say F### it and stick with the orlites. I was going to do a little bit more grinding on the center support since the stupid battery keeps dying on my dremel and It looks really close to being enough to get the mag in. But if I do that and it still doesn't go in then I think I'm done grinding stuff. Thanks for the info, looks like I have the exact same dam rifle you have.

 

Try grinding the back of the feed lips at the top, and see if you can fit the mag. I like to leave the Circle 10 mag loaded in my gun, since it has the steel-reinforced feed lips (unlike the Orlites) and is lighter when loaded than both Galil mag types. I'm doubting that I will buy any more though.

[jimdigriz 580]

I'm at the point now where I'm about to just say F### it and stick with the orlites. I was going to do a little bit more grinding on the center support since the stupid battery keeps dying on my dremel and It looks really close to being enough to get the mag in.

 

By the way, getting the mag to slip in past the bar was only the start; most of the grinding I did was after that, because the way the mag rubbed up against the bar made it go in way crooked.

[EreadM 0]

I'm at the point now where I'm about to just say F### it and stick with the orlites. I was going to do a little bit more grinding on the center support since the stupid battery keeps dying on my dremel and It looks really close to being enough to get the mag in. But if I do that and it still doesn't go in then I think I'm done grinding stuff. Thanks for the info, looks like I have the exact same dam rifle you have.

 

Try grinding the back of the feed lips at the top, and see if you can fit the mag. I like to leave the Circle 10 mag loaded in my gun, since it has the steel-reinforced feed lips (unlike the Orlites) and is lighter when loaded than both Galil mag types. I'm doubting that I will buy any more though.

I got it in now, but it seems like it doesn't really want to lock. How much of the locking tab did you have to file off?

[jimdigriz 580]

I got it in now, but it seems like it doesn't really want to lock. How much of the locking tab did you have to file off?

 

A decent bit. It was more than a little effort. Mine doesn't actually make the audible click locking sound that AK mags usually make; that is to say, if I wanted it just like other AK mags, I would have needed to file more. But it locks up solid.

[EreadM 0]

Well, I quit filing on the gun, and did enough filing to the mag where it pops pretty solid. It actually does make that click sound that you said yours didn't make. I ended up having to file off a lot on the locking tab. I guess I'll find out shortly whether it was all worth it once a put this thing back together again and see if it feeds properly. What a pain, I don't think I'll be getting any more Bulgarian mags either, too much bs to get them things to fit. Thanks for the help though.

[jimdigriz 580]

Well, I quit filing on the gun, and did enough filing to the mag where it pops pretty solid. It actually does make that click sound that you said yours didn't make. I ended up having to file off a lot on the locking tab. I guess I'll find out shortly whether it was all worth it once a put this thing back together again and see if it feeds properly. What a pain, I don't think I'll be getting any more Bulgarian mags either, too much bs to get them things to fit. Thanks for the help though.

 

Just out of curiosity, what year was your gun manufactured? I'm curious whether this phenomenon is truly random, or if it is time-specific.

[nalioth 405]

I don't think I'll be getting any more Bulgarian mags either, too much bs to get them things to fit.

That doesn't make any sense.

 

If you've got one to fit, they all should fit w/o any issues.

[EreadM 0]

I don't think I'll be getting any more Bulgarian mags either, too much bs to get them things to fit.

That doesn't make any sense.

 

If you've got one to fit, they all should fit w/o any issues.

 

 

 

 

My reasoning is because I'm not going to totally butcher the center support anymore than I already have. I did that, along with the interdiction tab plus modded the hell out of the mag. Despite what I've done to the gun I'm going to have to mod every mag. I have two bulg mags, one modded and one unmodded. Even though I've done all the required mods to the gun, and the modded mag fits now, the unmodded one still does not go in. I just don't feel like having to mod every single magazine I get.

 

I just bought the gun last October brand new. I 'm assuming its an 09. Is there somewhere on it with a production date?

[jimdigriz 580]

I just bought the gun last October brand new. I 'm assuming its an 09. Is there somewhere on it with a production date?

 

The serial number should say after the H the 2 digit year, if I'm not mistaken.

[EreadM 0]

I just bought the gun last October brand new. I 'm assuming its an 09. Is there somewhere on it with a production date?

 

The serial number should say after the H the 2 digit year, if I'm not mistaken.

 

 

 

 

Looks like mine was made in 2008.

[jimdigriz 580]

Looks like mine was made in 2008.

 

Mine is an 07. Not enough information to figure out this phenomenon. We would have to hear from others too.

 

Anyhow, apart from this magazine fitting issue, my .223 Saiga is one heck of a gun. Very accurate.

[EreadM 0]

Mine's pretty accurate too. I actually shoot better with it than I do with my AR. Here's a pic of it, I finally finished with it all today. Decided to use a thumbhole stock, haven't seen anyone on here with one on a converted gun yet plus I just like the way it looks. The mags seem to work fine and it feeds good. What a pain in the butt it was though. I guess I'll just have to take it out and shoot it to make sure its 100% though since tinkering with all the parts.

[cooger 19]

I just got my Bulgys today and I wish I had read this info before I ordered them. Mine won't lock into the gun. The mag hits a small bar in the reciever and then hits the support post. I don't think I want to grind on that and chance ruining my gun. I might try the Promag ak mags instead. Anyone have experience with these? I love this gun but this deal with the magazines is pissing me off. I wish I could find a fricken mag that would fit if without having to grind and file the gun apart.