Quad rail

[john1761 0]

Hello, I need your opinion on which is the better quad rail for the 12 gauge, Is it UTG with top rail extension or Chaos's with top rail extension? I have read the the chaos's is not as high as others. Both are look through for iron sights but, not really important as I will add sights to top rail. thanks John.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

If you go with a Chaos I'm sure you won't be dissapointed. Cameron is constantly trying to bring a higher quality product to the market at the lowest price possible.

[Will486 7]

Chaos, hands down. UTG started off as an airsoft company, and the large majority of their products were not altered in design when they entered the real firearm market. Their rail systems are still made with pot metal, their rail covers still slip and their vertical grips are still iffy on whether or not theyre actually 20mm. Its an alright rail, I dont mean to rag on it too much, it will work. But if youve got the money, get the Chaos. Its anodized 6061 Aluminum and wont add much weight compared to the Halo rail system.

 

..Just to clarify, it seems you understand the Chaos rail system to be a "look through" rail, which still allows the use to utilize the factory iron sights. It does not. The front must be ground off, the rear must be tapped out.

[john1761 0]

Chaos, hands down. UTG started off as an airsoft company, and the large majority of their products were not altered in design when they entered the real firearm market. Their rail systems are still made with pot metal, their rail covers still slip and their vertical grips are still iffy on whether or not theyre actually 20mm. Its an alright rail, I dont mean to rag on it too much, it will work. But if youve got the money, get the Chaos. Its anodized 6061 Aluminum and wont add much weight compared to the Halo rail system.

 

..Just to clarify, it seems you understand the Chaos rail system to be a "look through" rail, which still allows the use to utilize the factory iron sights. It does not. The front must be ground off, the rear must be tapped out.

 

Thanks, Do you have any suggestions on how to remove the rear sight? I have tried to tap it out but, it seems very well stuck. Some have said to cut it in half to remove it but, I am afraid of damaging gas chamber. Also should I just cut off the front sight? thank you John.

Edited January 26, 2010 by john1761

[sapper1371usmc 107]

I have two different S12's. One I was able to tap out the rear sight with a little force and the other one had to have the sight cut in half with a dremel. You wont mess up your rear sight base as long as you take it slow and have a steady hand. No need to get all crazy.

 

I cant answer for sure about the front sight as I am still waiting for my Chaos Extended Quad rail. From the pictures though, I ass-u-me-d that there was enough room to leave the front sight in tact. If not, cutting it flush would probably be sufficient.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Chaos, hands down. UTG started off as an airsoft company, and the large majority of their products were not altered in design when they entered the real firearm market. Their rail systems are still made with pot metal, their rail covers still slip and their vertical grips are still iffy on whether or not theyre actually 20mm. Its an alright rail, I dont mean to rag on it too much, it will work. But if youve got the money, get the Chaos. Its anodized 6061 Aluminum and wont add much weight compared to the Halo rail system.

 

..Just to clarify, it seems you understand the Chaos rail system to be a "look through" rail, which still allows the use to utilize the factory iron sights. It does not. The front must be ground off, the rear must be tapped out.

 

Interesting... I just ordered and installed an S12 UTG rail, and the one I received is top notch quality, milled aircraft aluminum. It's engineered like a swiss watch, leaves the gas relief port free, allows for co witnessing with the factory iron sights, fits perfectly, is solid as a rock, allows for three different set ups and looks absolutely awesome....

 

I've heard great things about Camerons rails. And, you should know that the S12 UTG quad rail is a first class piece of workmanship and engineering for about $109.

 

WS

[Nailbomb 10,221]

allows for co witnessing with the factory iron sights

Co-Witness is -

 

A - Having the ability to be able to align your Iron Sights or BUIS through your Optics / Red dots (where it locates in the glass it does not matter leaving your red dot Zeroed.

 

B - Sighting in your Optics / Red Dots and then bringing your Iron Sights or BUIS to align with the Red Dots.

 

The UTG may allow you to keep the irons and see through, but that is not a co witnessed setup IMO.

 

I went through a considerable amount of effort to have a cowitnessed option on my second S-12

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

allows for co witnessing with the factory iron sights

ummm...

 

 

Thank you for editing your post to reflect some measure of respect and civility.

 

The UTG does allow one to sight through the factory and (on my gun) Eotech type sight simultaneously.

 

WS

Edited January 28, 2010 by WaffenSchmied

[Caspian 32]

Chaos, hands down. UTG started off as an airsoft company, and the large majority of their products were not altered in design when they entered the real firearm market. Their rail systems are still made with pot metal,

 

that is false, therefore, the rest of the advise should be considered with a HUNK of salt and not worth much.

 

The UTG is a quality piece of machined aluminum that should be considered if it meets your needs.

 

Caspian

[Will486 7]

I dont mean to step on toes here. I just dont see any reason to skimp on such a vital weapon component. I'd hate to drop my gun one day and have my rail system break in half. Perhaps I am simply bias, though. Ive worked at an airsoft shop for the last few years where the name UTG has been cemented into everyones unconsciousness as one of the cheapest brand names on the market. Im sure UTG rails would be just fine on a plinker. I just dont want them on my SHTF gun.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

I dont mean to step on toes here. I just dont see any reason to skimp on such a vital weapon component. I'd hate to drop my gun one day and have my rail system break in half. Perhaps I am simply bias, though. Ive worked at an airsoft shop for the last few years where the name UTG has been cemented into everyones unconsciousness as one of the cheapest brand names on the market. Im sure UTG rails would be just fine on a plinker. I just dont want them on my SHTF gun.

 

Maybe you need to look at this rail before you allow your former experience to color your judgment. I have worked on some very expensive shitty rails, and I know the difference between hype and quality. The UTG rail I just installed is quality piece of equipment at a reasonable price.

 

I'm not pushing one product over another, I am simply stating what I have personally observed.

 

BTW, the expensive shitty rail I am referring to is a Halo quad rail. No longer in production, and not sold by any vendors on the forum.

 

WS

Edited January 26, 2010 by WaffenSchmied

[Will486 7]

True, true. I should examine it personally before passing judgment.

[Gibbles 23]

I looked at a UTG rail for an AR-15 a while back, and holding a troy rail next to it there was a huge difference, the utg rail felt like cast and it weighed more than the troy.

 

The UTG I held felt like it was made from pot metal... after holding that one I decided I would never buy anything they made...

 

I'm very happy with the troy, and it's made in America, much like the chaos rail.

 

I'm waiting on a Chaos extended quad rail, I expect it to be of good quality.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

I looked at a UTG rail for an AR-15 a while back, and holding a troy rail next to it there was a huge difference, the utg rail felt like cast and it weighed more than the troy.

 

The UTG I held felt like it was made from pot metal... after holding that one I decided I would never buy anything they made...

 

I'm very happy with the troy, and it's made in America, much like the chaos rail.

 

I'm waiting on a Chaos extended quad rail, I expect it to be of good quality.

 

To each his own;)

 

WS

Edited January 28, 2010 by WaffenSchmied

[protected static 19]

I looked at a UTG rail for an AR-15 a while back, and holding a troy rail next to it there was a huge difference, the utg rail felt like cast and it weighed more than the troy.

 

The UTG I held felt like it was made from pot metal... after holding that one I decided I would never buy anything they made...

 

I'm very happy with the troy, and it's made in America, much like the chaos rail.

 

I'm waiting on a Chaos extended quad rail, I expect it to be of good quality.

FWIW, UTG is introducing a US-made S-12 quad-rail handguard.

[jsp 1]

I have a UTG quad rail for my WASR10. My Larue Tactical FUG would not fit and my Magpul XT rail covers do not sit flush on the rails which causes the rail covers to flare out. The rail is not in spec. I will upgrade to an Ultimak later. I'm not too sure about UTG's quad rail for the S12 but I'll pass.

[cvhanh20 1,052]

Chaos, hands down. UTG started off as an airsoft company, and the large majority of their products were not altered in design when they entered the real firearm market. Their rail systems are still made with pot metal, their rail covers still slip and their vertical grips are still iffy on whether or not theyre actually 20mm. Its an alright rail, I dont mean to rag on it too much, it will work. But if youve got the money, get the Chaos. Its anodized 6061 Aluminum and wont add much weight compared to the Halo rail system.

 

..Just to clarify, it seems you understand the Chaos rail system to be a "look through" rail, which still allows the use to utilize the factory iron sights. It does not. The front must be ground off, the rear must be tapped out.

The front sight stays intact, but as stated the rear sight must be removed.

[KROSS FA 14]

I don't have a dog in this fight as KROSS specializes in S-12 tri-rail platforms, but my only advice is if possible try to buy American!

 

 

Zach

KROSS, LLC

[cvhanh20 1,052]

One of the main deference between the Chaos and UTG is their type II anodized at best! What does these mean, simple, their applied finish is only for looks, their wear surface is soft. Even If they advertise a type III they would be lying because this is company known for cutting corners. Chaos has a True type III hardcoat applied to every rail, thats a surface hardness of over 70 Rockwell, thats hard as tool steel on the wear surface. Why would UTG go with type II treatment or less, its easier to control the coloring. Type III is a nightmare to stabilize the color process and keep it consistent. The bottom line is, Chaos is priced within or lower than the China made rail, our rail has a lower profile, its lighter, stronger, designed with more stability, made to Military Spec, has more options in configurations, harder surface finish, and counts as a US part! Our rail doesn't just rely on being bolted together around this weapon, but applies a design feature not found on other rails, a rear jack screw for absolute zero. Whats more say?

[thewogster 0]

What's more to say? LOL, how about when will they be in stock....

 

I sent a post a few weeks back asking a few questions and got a very short response that didn't address their inventory issus. I went with the UTG simply because I needed to get an optic mounted for a trip - in a few months - and didn't have confidence with the Chaos after Camerons response.

 

Am I happy with the UTG, it's an OK rail that will work for now, didn't have to grind anything off so I have the opportunity to still take it back to its original state. It does mount a bit strange, and due to the way it bolts on it's not completely square to the eye, but the top rail is properly aligned (with a lot of work - but every saiga is different). I use the shorter top rail, and it does sit a bit high, not sure how much lower the other brands would actulay be. One design feature I do like is how the top rail sits a bit back from the gas plug on the top. I will more than likely end up replacing it though, is that a big deal? No, I was able to pick it up quite a bit cheaper than the Chaos, but like I said I may go to one of those or another US brand at a later time.

 

I would like to hear more about the "rear jack screw" from Choas, didn't find a whole lot of info about it when searching.

[cvhanh20 1,052]

What's more to say? LOL, how about when will they be in stock....

 

I sent a post a few weeks back asking a few questions and got a very short response that didn't address their inventory issus. I went with the UTG simply because I needed to get an optic mounted for a trip - in a few months - and didn't have confidence with the Chaos after Camerons response.

 

Am I happy with the UTG, it's an OK rail that will work for now, didn't have to grind anything off so I have the opportunity to still take it back to its original state. It does mount a bit strange, and due to the way it bolts on it's not completely square to the eye, but the top rail is properly aligned (with a lot of work - but every saiga is different). I use the shorter top rail, and it does sit a bit high, not sure how much lower the other brands would actulay be. One design feature I do like is how the top rail sits a bit back from the gas plug on the top. I will more than likely end up replacing it though, is that a big deal? No, I was able to pick it up quite a bit cheaper than the Chaos, but like I said I may go to one of those or another US brand at a later time.

 

I would like to hear more about the "rear jack screw" from Choas, didn't find a whole lot of info about it when searching.

[Juiceh 7]

Lots of BS flying around in this thread from people with 0 experience with the UTG rail. According to what was on CSS website, it is US made and counts as a US part. The fitment on mine was perfect. It will work with HK sights without raping your wallet at 2x the price like the Chaos\TAC47 HK friendly rail and they only come with a short top section. UTG comes with 2 different lengths for the top rail, both HK friendly, Chaos's new extended top rail is not HK friendly. The rail covers do not slip AT ALL, I dunno where the fuck anyone got that info from but these rail covers are extremely tight. The rail system is fairly lightweight, but I don't have a Chaos system to compare it to.

 

I went with the UTG because I needed an HK friendly rail could not justify the higher price of the Chaos\TAC47. I'm very happy I went that route wound up spending less than half of what I would have had I gone with Chaos\TAC47. If the finish on the UTG rail were Type III anodizing then I wouldn't have a single complaint about the UTG rail system.

 

Now if Cameron were to drop his prices to be competitive with the UTG rails like MD Arms is doing with their drums because Promag is marketing an S12 drum now, well, then I may have gone with the Chaos\TAC47 HK friendly rail. But I doubt it because they didn't and still don't have a long HK friendly top rail...

[Nailbomb 10,221]

So am i to understand you either can weld well enough to install H&K sights or have enough money to pay someone else to weld them on and are going to claim the big factor on your quad rail setup was cost?

 

You couldn't modify it yourself like I did? Or pay a little more like you already did?

 

What made you pay more for a less stable dust cover mounted rear sight when the krebs is a cheaper and more stable setup?

 

What made you think NOW was the time to pinch pennies and skimp?

 

I just don't follow the logic.

[Juiceh 7]

^Did you miss half my post or something? I obviously gave many more reasons than costs for going the route I did. My main factor was a setup that worked with HK sights and had an extended top rail.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Juice

[cvhanh20 1,052]

^Did you miss half my post or something? I obviously gave many more reasons than costs for going the route I did. My main factor was a setup that worked with HK sights and had an extended top rail.

Did you miss my post!!!! Chaos does have extended version for HK. Like I said, Chaos has more configurations. I've tried to lower the price to the bottom, it will fall no lower! I focus on the majority of the market, which is why our main rail system is not designed for HK. A rail system designed for HK and a weapon without HK looks poorly designed. IMO you get what you pay for.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

^Did you miss half my post or something? I obviously gave many more reasons than costs for going the route I did. My main factor was a setup that worked with HK sights and had an extended top rail.

That product is made, so that simply falls to your other argument.

 

you know you mentioned price in every section of that post right? I thought you did that to drive home a point...

[scattergunner 12]

well 1 good reason to buy from chaos is that he is a big time supporter of this site. i didnt see utg giving away any rails in support of max when the whole agp thing went down like cameron did. that was almost a 600 dollar donation! if you like this forum then support it's supporters. chaos all the way. i dont care how long i have to wait.

[Bridis 319]

BTW, when are the extended quad rails shipping?

[Nailbomb 10,221]

BTW, when are the extended quad rails shipping?

They're here! We start shipping today. USPS is jacked up with our labeling system and they say their working on it, so you may or may not receive and email for shipping.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=48908

[brd 1]

Edited January 29, 2010 by brd