New LOW Price on the MD-20 from MD Arms, Ltd.

[RookieShot 3]

I still have many left, but have removed them from my site for now. I paid much more for them than what they are now selling for and I can not sell them at that big of a loss. Call me if you would like to return it to me. Some things are out of my control.

 

 

I was also very surprised at the lack of a response from MD Arms and the positive response from CSS. I called CSS after receiving this response. They offered to refund my full $260 for my unused MD-20 drum. He said that he would eat the loss. He explained that he only had one week to ship his stock of drums back to MD Arms for credit. After that he owned them at the price he paid (which was $100 more than MD Arms is selling them for now). Even if I sent the drum back to CSS expedited over night, CSS would still not be able to get it back to MD Arms in time to get credit. I mentioned that MD Arms stated that they would offer something to people that ordered in the last 30 days. CSS told me that only applied to people that ordered directly from MD Arms. This does not sound like a manufacturer that is taking care of his distributers. AGP magazines got burned at the stake on this forum for doing something similar. If MD Arms is treating CSS like this, I do not expect to get a favorable response from the company for a newbie like me.

[Bridis 319]

I ordered a new drum and a clear cover for the drum I have. I also hope this doesn't end up like the AGP thing. I'm sure Cameron can't keep giving away rail systems for people who buy mags.

[MikeD 541]

I know I have been needing to put out a follow up statement for awhile but as you can probably guess... Things have been down right crazy. And a follow up is going to take me some time to put together from the looks of this thread... And I DID contact all my dealers the next day, just as I said I would! I sent a generic email to all of them. And have been following up with exceptions for the biggest dealers, like MAA, CSS, Atlantic,...,. Can't you verify that CSS. You posted today above but your post sounds nothing like what we have been discussing. I don't really think it was international but it reads like I am trying to dick you.

 

I am working on a email to the customer's that ordered in the 30 days prior to the price drop. Once I am done with that I will work on a follow up to this thread. It might not come tonight, it will take some time to get it broke down.

 

But until then, I can't believe some of the things I'm reading here. Maybe I should of raised the price to $500 a drum instead. Then everyone would know it was the best because it cost more!!!

[Bridis 319]

Mike, you hold the controlling interest in the best selling/best built drum for the Saiga 12. You have to expect that there are going to be several people negatively affected by such a dramatic price drop. A lot of individuals and all vendors are "investing" in firearms. When the bottom falls out of the market, they lose money and losing money never makes anyone happy.

 

I sincerely hope everything works out for everyone.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Bridis

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

I still have many left, but have removed them from my site for now. I paid much more for them than what they are now selling for and I can not sell them at that big of a loss. Call me if you would like to return it to me. Some things are out of my control.

 

 

I was also very surprised at the lack of a response from MD Arms and the positive response from CSS. I called CSS after receiving this response. They offered to refund my full $260 for my unused MD-20 drum. He said that he would eat the loss. He explained that he only had one week to ship his stock of drums back to MD Arms for credit. After that he owned them at the price he paid (which was $100 more than MD Arms is selling them for now). Even if I sent the drum back to CSS expedited over night, CSS would still not be able to get it back to MD Arms in time to get credit. I mentioned that MD Arms stated that they would offer something to people that ordered in the last 30 days. CSS told me that only applied to people that ordered directly from MD Arms. This does not sound like a manufacturer that is taking care of his distributers. AGP magazines got burned at the stake on this forum for doing something similar. If MD Arms is treating CSS like this, I do not expect to get a favorable response from the company for a newbie like me.

WTF!?!? MDarms is having its distributors return stock for credit, and you imply that MDarms is screwing them?

If I understand the AGP events, this doesn't even come close, not even remotely... Don't go there, don't fling that shit.

 

MDarms is taking care of their Distributors and retail customers, and CSS is taking of their retail customers, even if it means his taking a hit.

You bought something at fair market value and now it costs less, your being taken care of.

 

You can please everyone some of the time, and some of them all of the time, but, you can't please everyone all of the time.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

I know I have been needing to put out a follow up statement for awhile but as you can probably guess... Things have been down right crazy. And a follow up is going to take me some time to put together from the looks of this thread... And I DID contact all my dealers the next day, just as I said I would! I sent a generic email to all of them. And have been following up with exceptions for the biggest dealers, like MAA, CSS, Atlantic,...,. Can't you verify that CSS. You posted today above but your post sounds nothing like what we have been discussing. I don't really think it was international but it reads like I am trying to dick you.

 

I am working on a email to the customer's that ordered in the 30 days prior to the price drop. Once I am done with that I will work on a follow up to this thread. It might not come tonight, it will take some time to get it broke down.

 

But until then, I can't believe some of the things I'm reading here. Maybe I should of raised the price to $500 a drum instead. Then everyone would know it was the best because it cost more!!!

Mike,

fuck these whining lil'bitches, you do what you gotta do to survive.

Having your Distributors return stock for credit and taking care of your retail customers speaks well of you.

 

Seems like some people have lost all sense, that or just never had any to begin with.

 

All you crying pussies are pissing me off

[gpqueen 545]

I know I have been needing to put out a follow up statement for awhile but as you can probably guess... Things have been down right crazy. And a follow up is going to take me some time to put together from the looks of this thread... And I DID contact all my dealers the next day, just as I said I would! I sent a generic email to all of them. And have been following up with exceptions for the biggest dealers, like MAA, CSS, Atlantic,...,. Can't you verify that CSS. You posted today above but your post sounds nothing like what we have been discussing. I don't really think it was international but it reads like I am trying to dick you.

 

I am working on a email to the customer's that ordered in the 30 days prior to the price drop. Once I am done with that I will work on a follow up to this thread. It might not come tonight, it will take some time to get it broke down.

 

But until then, I can't believe some of the things I'm reading here. Maybe I should of raised the price to $500 a drum instead. Then everyone would know it was the best because it cost more!!!

You did repond to me yesterday with the this email offering to buy back our inventory which is fantastic. I have no problem with what we agreed to about the unsold inventory.

My post was in response to several very unhappy customers posting here that had just purchased from me directly. Per our last email there was no compensation to them as stated in the email. The last two customers I had spoke with I offered to give them $100 in merchandise to keep the used drums which I could not return to you. I was trying to take care of the customers that had just purchased from me.

It was not meant to offend you.

 

Dear MD Arms stocking dealer,

We are contacting all our our dealers. As you are probably aware by now we have drastically reduced the price of our drum. We lowered it to $120 each. We realize that you may have stock for resale that you have paid much more than that for. We want to make an offer so you aren't stuck with stock you will lose money on. All we can offer at this time is a full refund on any NIB stock you have left.

We have to set a deadline on this offer of return for certain reasons and we hope you understand. To receive a full refund we need the NIB stock received here no later than Friday of next week, February 5rd. We will also refund the return shipping cost and a prorated refund of your original shipping costs.

We are also very sorry but at this time we can't offer you any dealer pricing lower than the new $120 price.

We are sorry but we cannot offer your past customers any type of refund. We hope they will understand that this is out of your control and any hard feelings should be towards MD Arms, Ltd. And we will gladly and rightfully take any of the heat from them.

We are very thankful for your past business and we hope you will remain a stocking dealer. Things that are out of our control have lead to these changes. But we truly feel that in the long run the benefits will far out way the set-backs of these changes for MD Arms, you, and the saiga-12 owners. As a fellow business man we hope you understand where we are at and that it is only a minor set-back. We are very sorry for the inconveniences this has caused. Thanks again, MikeD

[MikeD 541]

Mike, you hold the controlling interest in the best selling/best built drum for the Saiga 12. You have to expect that there are going to be several people negatively affected by such a dramatic price drop. A lot of individuals and all vendors are "investing" in firearms. When the bottom falls out of the market, they lose money and losing money never makes anyone happy.

 

I sincerely hope everything works out for everyone.

Bridis, Please don't take this the wrong way and know this is a general message not directed at you. I have VERY few stocking dealers. And they have made THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of dollars off reselling my drum, something I could have done all by myself. The small number of dealers I have has been a very small percentage of my over all sales. If they never made another penny they would (or should) have nothing to complain about. Even if they did get stuck with under value stock, which they won't.

 

 

 

If the bottom really fell out who do you think would hurt the most? The few dealers I have? My past customers? It would be MD ARMS, Ltd if anyone. How much do you guys think my stock and future stock dropped in value? But the bottom didn't fall out. This was a rebirth. This is going to help the Saiga-12 community and market more than most realize. In many, many areas.

 

 

 

If anyone is to blame it is the consumer. The people that make shitty companies possible by buying their junk. What I'm doing is sending a message. The saiga-12 market is not going to be "EASILY" over run by such companies on my watch. I will fight them every step of the way. Promag's new drum has lost it's price advantage before it ever even hit the market, ha. And if they want we can even go lower. Our tooling is paid for already. Even with the low cost, grade, polymer they use in their mags (pretty sure it's polypropylene, used by many shops to purge their injection machines because it is so cheap, inferior to regular glass filled nylon, and regular glass filled nylon is inferior to the material I use...) they will play hell trying to under cut me. Their best strength is not product at all, it is price point, and they just lost it. How many of you bought a junky 10rd mag from them? How many spent a couple hours getting it to work or trying too? And how much money would you have made if you spent your time getting paid for it? How many gave up on their joke of a warranty after losing money with return shipping? How many quality mags could you have bought if you do the math? Speak up. People need to quit buying junk because it is cheap thinking they will just try one. Don't buy none. I won't be able to single handedly stop a flood of junky BS products from BS companies from ruining the name of the saiga-12 and it's market. All of you need to send the message too. Don't make it profitable and they will stay away. Don't buy from stocking dealers that stock their junk either. Let them know they are selling someone else's junk. Ask them if they care. If they don't, and continue selling it and helping the BS companies rip people off, stop buying anything from them too... It will probably never happen on the whole. But maybe at least the Saiga-12 community can keep them away. We are different aren't we? Maybe not, but I like to think/hope we are...

 

 

 

Also this wasn't the follow up I spoke of, more to come...

[saiga wannabe1 0]

well I am totally pissed............my new drum is sitting 5 miles from my house till monday.......lol ....... dam............ ups

[DeMilled 5]

 

 

 

 

If anyone is to blame it is the consumer. The people that make shitty companies possible by buying their junk. What I'm doing is sending a message. The saiga-12 market is not going to be "EASILY" over run by such companies on my watch. I will fight them every step of the way. Promag's new drum has lost it's price advantage before it ever even hit the market, ha. And if they want we can even go lower. Our tooling is paid for already. Even with the low cost, grade, polymer they use in their mags (pretty sure it's polypropylene, used by many shops to purge their injection machines because it is so cheap, inferior to regular glass filled nylon, and regular glass filled nylon is inferior to the material I use...) they will play hell trying to under cut me. Their best strength is not product at all, it is price point, and they just lost it. How many of you bought a junky 10rd mag from them? How many spent a couple hours getting it to work or trying too? And how much money would you have made if you spent your time getting paid for it? How many gave up on their joke of a warranty after losing money with return shipping? How many quality mags could you have bought if you do the math? Speak up. People need to quit buying junk because it is cheap thinking they will just try one. Don't buy none. I won't be able to single handedly stop a flood of junky BS products from BS companies from ruining the name of the saiga-12 and it's market. All of you need to send the message too. Don't make it profitable and they will stay away. Don't buy from stocking dealers that stock their junk either. Let them know they are selling someone else's junk. Ask them if they care. If they don't, and continue selling it and helping the BS companies rip people off, stop buying anything from them too... It will probably never happen on the whole. But maybe at least the Saiga-12 community can keep them away. We are different aren't we? Maybe not, but I like to think/hope we are...

 

 

 

Also this wasn't the follow up I spoke of, more to come...

 

Well now, this puts your actions in a whole new light.

 

Fuck 'em Mike. Fuck 'em good and hard.

 

I am going to purchase as many of your drums as I can fit in my budget, please use the money I send you to keep on pounding Promag good and hard.

[getitat 609]

Hello, ChileRelleno

 

I'm not certain who you're trying to dis' with your comments, but were you one of the Forum members who lined up and became "investors" in MD Arms by prepaying many hundreds of dollars for products you knew would not be available for an unknown period of time? Seems like those were the ones that demonstrated some true allegiance (granted, some bitched a bit when the months stretched on...) as opposed to spewing hot air.

The dealers for MD Arms have much more at stake, and obviously, they are trying to protect their interests at the same time Mike is protecting his while everybody is attempting to keep a positive spin on everything.

Bottom line is, some people have put their money where there mouth is, if you get my drift.....Maybe a little less animosity might be in order here.

 

-Forgot to add....I'd gladly jump on a pre-order list again for the double-stack mag's, my intention of posting was not to hammer Mike or his product in any way. I've simply been patiently waiting for a "work-around" for my drums....

 

With all due respect,

guido

 

I know I have been needing to put out a follow up statement for awhile but as you can probably guess... Things have been down right crazy. And a follow up is going to take me some time to put together from the looks of this thread... And I DID contact all my dealers the next day, just as I said I would! I sent a generic email to all of them. And have been following up with exceptions for the biggest dealers, like MAA, CSS, Atlantic,...,. Can't you verify that CSS. You posted today above but your post sounds nothing like what we have been discussing. I don't really think it was international but it reads like I am trying to dick you.

 

I am working on a email to the customer's that ordered in the 30 days prior to the price drop. Once I am done with that I will work on a follow up to this thread. It might not come tonight, it will take some time to get it broke down.

 

But until then, I can't believe some of the things I'm reading here. Maybe I should of raised the price to $500 a drum instead. Then everyone would know it was the best because it cost more!!!

Mike,

fuck these whining lil'bitches, you do what you gotta do to survive.

Having your Distributors return stock for credit and taking care of your retail customers speaks well of you.

 

Seems like some people have lost all sense, that or just never had any to begin with.

 

All you crying pussies are pissing me off

Edited January 30, 2010 by guido2

[Steelin' Ducks 1]

Mike,

 

Keep up the good work. As a business owner too, I support you 100%. There is nothing wrong with what you are doing. It is the best for the Saiga world. I have three of your drums and Im waiting on your new products to come out.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Hello, ChileRelleno

 

I'm not certain who you're trying to dis' with your comments, but were you one of the Forum members who lined up and became "investors" in MD Arms by prepaying many hundreds of dollars for products you knew would not be available for an unknown period of time? Seems like those were the ones that demonstrated some true allegiance (granted, some bitched a bit when the months stretched on...) as opposed to spewing hot air.

The dealers for MD Arms have much more at stake, and obviously, they are trying to protect their interests at the same time Mike is protecting his while everybody is attempting to keep a positive spin on everything.

Bottom line is, some people have put their money where there mouth is, if you get my drift.....Maybe a little less animosity might be in order here.

 

With all due respect,

guido

 

I know I have been needing to put out a follow up statement for awhile but as you can probably guess... Things have been down right crazy. And a follow up is going to take me some time to put together from the looks of this thread... And I DID contact all my dealers the next day, just as I said I would! I sent a generic email to all of them. And have been following up with exceptions for the biggest dealers, like MAA, CSS, Atlantic,...,. Can't you verify that CSS. You posted today above but your post sounds nothing like what we have been discussing. I don't really think it was international but it reads like I am trying to dick you.

 

I am working on a email to the customer's that ordered in the 30 days prior to the price drop. Once I am done with that I will work on a follow up to this thread. It might not come tonight, it will take some time to get it broke down.

 

But until then, I can't believe some of the things I'm reading here. Maybe I should of raised the price to $500 a drum instead. Then everyone would know it was the best because it cost more!!!

Mike,

fuck these whining lil'bitches, you do what you gotta do to survive.

Having your Distributors return stock for credit and taking care of your retail customers speaks well of you.

 

Seems like some people have lost all sense, that or just never had any to begin with.

 

All you crying pussies are pissing me off

Hi Guido,

I bearing animosity towards those who haven't a clue as to how the market really works, and claiming that Mike has been screwing them by not lowering his price after recovering costs associated with bringing his product to market. And those who think they are owed compensation for buying something at fair market value, after they see the price drop a few days later.

Then someone insinuates that Mike is screwing his distributors, when the opposite is pretty clear.

 

If someone isn't sure if I'm addressing them, all they need to do is check themselves for panties & a bleeding gash.

[RookieShot 3]

I read that Mike was going to help out the people that purchased the MD-20 withing the last 30 days. This comment was great and I was impressed with his effort to help smooth through this dramitic price transition. I then found out from CSS that this did not apply to the customers that did not purchase from MD Arms directly. I just thought that put CSS in a bad position. I talked to Greg at CSS and he offered to provide $100 of store credit or I could return the drum and get a full refund (at his loss). I thought that this was an example of GREAT customer service. He did not have to do anything but he did. Everyone is correct, people purchase items at "fair market value" and have no guarentees that the price will not suddenly change. Several retailers have adopted a 30 day price match guarantee to help customers make decisions in time of price fluctuations. It is just good customer service that make loyal customers. Thanks again to Greg at CSS who helped me and made a very loyal customer.

[billyjoebob 10]

 

I bearing animosity towards those who haven't a clue as to how the market really works, and claiming that Mike has been screwing them by not lowering his price after recovering costs associated with bringing his product to market. And those who think they are owed compensation for buying something at fair market value, after they see the price drop a few days later.

Then someone insinuates that Mike is screwing his distributors, when the opposite is pretty clear.

 

If someone isn't sure if I'm addressing them, all they need to do is check themselves for panties & a bleeding gash.

 

 

It's a shame you sound like an ignorant hillbilly, Chile, because under all your grade school comments you have the potential for some good points. Unfortunately, you seem unable to express them like an adult...especially considering that everyone else in this thread (and throughout this entire site) maintain a modicum of maturity and attempt to discuss issues intelligently.

 

All your feigned outrage does is taint MD's otherwise thoughtful responses on his business decision(s), and reflect badly on him since you have taken the role of being his advocate. Good work.

 

 

 

I read that Mike was going to help out the people that purchased the MD-20 withing the last 30 days. This comment was great and I was impressed with his effort to help smooth through this dramitic price transition. I then found out from CSS that this did not apply to the customers that did not purchase from MD Arms directly. I just thought that put CSS in a bad position. I talked to Greg at CSS and he offered to provide $100 of store credit or I could return the drum and get a full refund (at his loss). I thought that this was an example of GREAT customer service. He did not have to do anything but he did. Everyone is correct, people purchase items at "fair market value" and have no guarentees that the price will not suddenly change. Several retailers have adopted a 30 day price match guarantee to help customers make decisions in time of price fluctuations. It is just good customer service that make loyal customers. Thanks again to Greg at CSS who helped me and made a very loyal customer.

 

Greg will always have any business I can throw his way. He's a gentleman, takes time to help his customers, and has great prices.

 

And as I noted in an earlier post, I will always be first in line for any product Cameron comes out with. He is a great business man and a true American.

[GLOCKshooter 1]

[TX-Zen 287]

if you consider that the money (profit) from the first product is then used in the development of the next product then there shouldn't be a problem. It's Capitalism at it's finest and why i love it. Mike makes great products, but the r/d for those products (or any products) is horribly expensive. look at promag for example. How many "i hate promag" threads are there? If mike were to make a magazine without testing it then, vomited it out to everyone he'd be faced with 1000's of "i hate md arms" threads, and civil lawsuits from people wanting their money ultimately putting him in the poor house. If you remember he had to fix some of the first batch of drums for folks at his cost. Look at the double stack mag, and how long it's taking... He has to ensure the mag runs flawlessly, that it can be mass produced at a low cost, still maintain it's functionality, and be able to generate a profit after the initial investment to make it all worth his while. He's also one man making a specific product for a specific gun. A saiga 12 isn't an AR. i can throw a rock and it'll hit an AR owner...in fact i've thrown several rocks at AR owners but that's another story for another time. My point is not everyone owns a saiga 12 and of those that do, not everyone knows a drum exists for it, and of those that do, not everyone can have one in their state, and of those that can, not everyone wants one. Businesses like magpul are able to keep their costs low because there products not only work on several models of the same gun (ar-10, m4, ar15 etc) they can also work on several other non AR guns. In conclusion he's not screwing anyone, he's doing you a favor. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

 

Dead on!

 

 

 

 

Z

[cholly_horse 3]

I thought Chile Rellanos post was pretty funny. It is what many of us were thinking, he just decided to post it.

Edited January 30, 2010 by cholly_horse

[HOWARD COSELL 155]

http://forum.saiga-1...showtopic=44326

 

Mike,

Will your new magwell work with the drum?

Edited January 30, 2010 by THE RIPPER

[Luke 2]

I haven't purchased a drum so maybe I can't relate very well but I don't understand all the fuss! Newly designed and released products are always going to cost much more at introduction than a few years down the road. Yes of course he was selling them for much more than the cost of materials! Imagine all the hours and hours of design and testing that went into that drum. I bought a video game console near the release date and now a new one costs half the price but I am not angry in the least infact I am considering purchasing a second one ( as many seem to be doing with Mike's drums ).

 

Call it price gouging if you want but at the end of the day it is him trying to Recoup his investment and still make a good profit to live on, I don't see how anyone could feel entitled to a refund! The fact is, you thought it was cool enough to pay whatever you paid but now that it has dropped in price you would like to get the difference back.

[Zambidis 90]

I think I'm finally going to get a drum! And right after I installed my magwell lol.

 

It brings attention to the fact that customers (we die-hards on this site) have been paying 2 or 3 TIMES what was necessary to cover costs and make a profit.

 

The fact is you can charge what the market will bare. At one time that was $300. With a significantly cheaper product on the market what the market will bare is different. That is why competition drives prices down. People are in business to make money. Was the previous price unfair? No it was the only game in town. Furthermore with initial expenses it is quite possible at that time $120 would not have been a profitable price point, or least not one that was profitable to justify the work put in. With things up and going you can keep them going more easily and thus a lower profit margin might be deemed acceptable.

[Death_Delirium 7]

Mike, you hold the controlling interest in the best selling/best built drum for the Saiga 12. You have to expect that there are going to be several people negatively affected by such a dramatic price drop. A lot of individuals and all vendors are "investing" in firearms. When the bottom falls out of the market, they lose money and losing money never makes anyone happy.

 

I sincerely hope everything works out for everyone.

Bridis, Please don't take this the wrong way and know this is a general message not directed at you. I have VERY few stocking dealers. And they have made THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of dollars off reselling my drum, something I could have done all by myself. The small number of dealers I have has been a very small percentage of my over all sales. If they never made another penny they would (or should) have nothing to complain about. Even if they did get stuck with under value stock, which they won't.

 

 

 

If the bottom really fell out who do you think would hurt the most? The few dealers I have? My past customers? It would be MD ARMS, Ltd if anyone. How much do you guys think my stock and future stock dropped in value? But the bottom didn't fall out. This was a rebirth. This is going to help the Saiga-12 community and market more than most realize. In many, many areas.

 

 

 

If anyone is to blame it is the consumer. The people that make shitty companies possible by buying their junk. What I'm doing is sending a message. The saiga-12 market is not going to be "EASILY" over run by such companies on my watch. I will fight them every step of the way. Promag's new drum has lost it's price advantage before it ever even hit the market, ha. And if they want we can even go lower. Our tooling is paid for already. Even with the low cost, grade, polymer they use in their mags (pretty sure it's polypropylene, used by many shops to purge their injection machines because it is so cheap, inferior to regular glass filled nylon, and regular glass filled nylon is inferior to the material I use...) they will play hell trying to under cut me. Their best strength is not product at all, it is price point, and they just lost it. How many of you bought a junky 10rd mag from them? How many spent a couple hours getting it to work or trying too? And how much money would you have made if you spent your time getting paid for it? How many gave up on their joke of a warranty after losing money with return shipping? How many quality mags could you have bought if you do the math? Speak up. People need to quit buying junk because it is cheap thinking they will just try one. Don't buy none. I won't be able to single handedly stop a flood of junky BS products from BS companies from ruining the name of the saiga-12 and it's market. All of you need to send the message too. Don't make it profitable and they will stay away. Don't buy from stocking dealers that stock their junk either. Let them know they are selling someone else's junk. Ask them if they care. If they don't, and continue selling it and helping the BS companies rip people off, stop buying anything from them too... It will probably never happen on the whole. But maybe at least the Saiga-12 community can keep them away. We are different aren't we? Maybe not, but I like to think/hope we are...

 

 

 

Also this wasn't the follow up I spoke of, more to come...

 

You speak the truth. I did buy a 10 round Promag mag and it was shit, I also previously bought a few 30 round mags for my x39 and every one of them is shit. I will never buy anything from Promag again, and will gladly buy your products instead. I will your double stacks when they come out and I expect that after a while the price will probably drop but that is to be expected with most every product so no worries there. You seem to be taking care of your distributors so that is a testament to your good services which is more than I can say for some other companies. Keep taking care of business Mike.

[Twinsen 86]

The fact that Mike offered to buy back any inventory at all shows that he's a saint. Prices change in a free market. There is risk and reward.

 

Also, the MD-20 is the king of drums. I'd buy a couple, but I don't really have a use for them right now. I'm sure if the price stays at $120 I'll buy a couple in the future.

[Paulyski 2,227]

 

 

 

 

If the bottom really fell out who do you think would hurt the most? The few dealers I have? My past customers? It would be MD ARMS, Ltd if anyone.

 

 

..............Even with the low cost, grade, polymer they use in their mags (pretty sure it's polypropylene, used by many shops to purge their injection machines because it is so cheap, inferior to regular glass filled nylon, and regular glass filled nylon is inferior to the material I use............

 

...........How many of you bought a junky 10rd mag from them? How many spent a couple hours getting it to work or trying too? And how much money would you have made if you spent your time getting paid for it? How many gave up on their joke of a warranty after losing money with return shipping? How many quality mags could you have bought if you do the math? Speak up.

 

People need to quit buying junk because it is cheap thinking they will just try one. Don't buy none. I won't be able to single handedly stop a flood of junky BS products from BS companies from ruining the name of the saiga-12 and it's market. All of you need to send the message too. Don't make it profitable and they will stay away. Don't buy from stocking dealers that stock their junk either. Let them know they are selling someone else's junk. Ask them if they care. If they don't, and continue selling it and helping the BS companies rip people off, stop buying anything from them too... It will probably never happen on the whole. But maybe at least the Saiga-12 community can keep them away. We are different aren't we? Maybe not, but I like to think/hope we are...

 

 

 

Also this wasn't the follow up I spoke of, more to come...

I wholeheartedly agree this this is the best & only decision you had.

Also, I think you are correct with their polymer. I used to work as a tech on injection molding machines years ago, It's soft & easily cut. I tested on the bottom of one that I bought when I bought my gun new at a local shop.

 

After returning it for their warranty, I waited 3 months & called many many times before they sent me back another crappy mag.

I made it work myself, because they couldn't.

That being said, I still didn't trust it & threw it in as a bonus on a mag sale I just had.

I was gonna sell 2 AGPs & a surefire for $75.00 (I didn't want to be the guy to sell a pro-mag). But I threw it in on top of the deal so I wouldn't ever reach for it if the SHTF. It now works, after about an hour & a half of tinkering, boiling, measuring including adjusting the rear clip spring tension to keep it from re-collapsing the soft plastic. I also had to stretch the spring to make it strong enough to lift 3" .00 buck. Their springs are the weakest of any S-12 mag.

I've been screaming about "No-Mag" from the rooftops for a few months now.

 

After I first tested it & found how lousy it was, I decided to keep it in the gun for looks & so I wouldn't come home to a burgler armed with a working S-12. (I keep the gun in the safe now that all's great)

 

 

I hound every gunshop I see with them also & make sure the owner knows what he's selling.

Not a whole lot of people know about the S-12. Even shops that sell one every so often.

Otherwise they're just greedy bastards if they continue to stock "NoMag's" shit.

 

I anxiously await Monday when my brown truck arrives with your product. Thanks for being so fast even though you have been unbelievably swamped. I have never seen a business pull that off.

You seem to be a VERY good businessman.

 

 

 

well I am totally pissed............my new drum is sitting 5 miles from my house till monday.......lol ....... dam............ ups

I hear ya there.

 

Tomorow, tomorow, I'll have drum. Tomorrow.

It's onlyyy, a daaay a waaaaaaay.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Paulyski

[super jim 14]

I read that Mike was going to help out the people that purchased the MD-20 withing the last 30 days. This comment was great and I was impressed with his effort to help smooth through this dramitic price transition. I then found out from CSS that this did not apply to the customers that did not purchase from MD Arms directly. I just thought that put CSS in a bad position. I talked to Greg at CSS and he offered to provide $100 of store credit or I could return the drum and get a full refund (at his loss). I thought that this was an example of GREAT customer service. He did not have to do anything but he did. Everyone is correct, people purchase items at "fair market value" and have no guarentees that the price will not suddenly change. Several retailers have adopted a 30 day price match guarantee to help customers make decisions in time of price fluctuations. It is just good customer service that make loyal customers. Thanks again to Greg at CSS who helped me and made a very loyal customer.

 

I also thought it was a really stand-up decision to "offer something for those that purchased a MD-20 in the past 30 days". So happens I purchased my 28 day priot to the announcement. I also puchased from Greg at CSS. Greg has alwaoys been helpful and fast on delivery. I don't want to see Greg have to take a loss because of this.

[Zambidis 90]

I ordered my drum, it looks like they have been moving fast in the wake of this announcement. I hope it is this week. I think Mike is doing his best to be fair while making the decisions he sees as necessary to run his business. CSS is a great company that I have ordered from many times. I am not surprised they are taking care of their customers either. It is that type of service that will cause me and others to continue to order from them. In fact I have a growing list of items that I plan to get from CSS.

[RookieShot 3]

I ordered my drum, it looks like they have been moving fast in the wake of this announcement. I hope it is this week. I think Mike is doing his best to be fair while making the decisions he sees as necessary to run his business. CSS is a great company that I have ordered from many times. I am not surprised they are taking care of their customers either. It is that type of service that will cause me and others to continue to order from them. In fact I have a growing list of items that I plan to get from CSS.

 

 

+1

[Atlantic Firearms.com 170]

We have had several of our large suppliers do some drastic price cutting etc in the last 4 months but none of them has offered to stand behind their products & pricing structure like the crew @ MD Arms .

[gpqueen 545]

I read that Mike was going to help out the people that purchased the MD-20 withing the last 30 days. This comment was great and I was impressed with his effort to help smooth through this dramitic price transition. I then found out from CSS that this did not apply to the customers that did not purchase from MD Arms directly. I just thought that put CSS in a bad position. I talked to Greg at CSS and he offered to provide $100 of store credit or I could return the drum and get a full refund (at his loss). I thought that this was an example of GREAT customer service. He did not have to do anything but he did. Everyone is correct, people purchase items at "fair market value" and have no guarentees that the price will not suddenly change. Several retailers have adopted a 30 day price match guarantee to help customers make decisions in time of price fluctuations. It is just good customer service that make loyal customers. Thanks again to Greg at CSS who helped me and made a very loyal customer.

 

I also thought it was a really stand-up decision to "offer something for those that purchased a MD-20 in the past 30 days". So happens I purchased my 28 day priot to the announcement. I also puchased from Greg at CSS. Greg has alwaoys been helpful and fast on delivery. I don't want to see Greg have to take a loss because of this.

Call me when you get a minute.

[scattergunner 12]

ENOUGH of this bs from those trying to shame md for the price drop. he is obviosly doing everything possible to take care of his customers both wholesale and retail, and for the record, any one of us would have grabbed as many dollars as possible before the bubble broke and you damn well know it. all you haters should be ashamed of yourselves. hmmmmm... i wonder where all that profit is going?...... oh yeah! r+d for steel mags!!! not that anyone really wants those or anything.... all you commie ass haters should shut the !@#$ up and take a look in the mirror....really........... you are starting to sound like o'barry. (capitalism rules ) and when mike made the comment about how he could have raised the price instead of dropping it, he was not too far off the mark. the md20 is the best fucking drum you can get, just in case you haven't been paying attention.

dont forget that for the time being, md arms is the foremost pioneer in the s12 mag industry. quit the whining already before you piss him off and screw shit up for everyone. i personally would rather see a financially comfortable, ambitious and happy Mike Davidson cranking out double stack mags, than a fed up and irritated Mike Davidson posting away to defend his good name against ungrateful little whiners. anyone else feel the same way????

 

sincerely,

 

proud first run md20 owner