Drilling this bullet guide hole is IMPOSSIBLE

[Dirge 4]

Dear lord, is my luck ever going to turn around?

 

I recently bought a rounded bullet guide from Dinzag for my new Saiga 7.62x39, and I'm beginning to see just how tough this Russian steel truly is. I've done everything that everyone else has recommended while drilling the hole for the bullet guide's screw. I've used plenty of cutting fluid, I'm drilling at low speed, and I'm using a tough cobalt drill bit. After two nights and going through two hand drill batteries, I've only succeeded in making a dent. A puny little dent that refuses to become a hole. After reading through everyone else's projects, I can only assume that the trunnion on my rifle is thicker than the norm. So now, I'm convinced that I simply do not have the proper hardware to punch through this goddamn trunnion. If I can't drill this hole over the next few days, I'm going to throw in the towel and call in a gunsmith or auto detailer to rivet or weld this thing on.

 

Are there any other tips or techniques that I've overlooked?

[Paulyski 2,227]

Your Cobalt bits that you bought at Lowes are shit.

Cobalt is Lowes cheap Chinese bargain brand.

 

Get Milwaukee bits, they will work well.

[thehopping1 105]

Do you know any one with a drill press? I did mine in 10 minutes with a drill press and it was my first successful tapped hole. Also make sure you are using good bits, not cobalt brand bits. The thickness shouldn't really matter, but that steel is tough stuff.

 

ETA

Damn Paulyski beat me to it.

Edited January 29, 2010 by thehopping1

[Paulyski 2,227]

Also, when you go to tap it, only advance the tap 1/4 to 1/3 of a revolution at a time to cut, then back it out as not to let the chips of steel you're cutting build up & use cutting oil.

If you don't, the tap is made out of harder steel than the gun & if you break it off in there..... Well the nightmare will then REALLY begin.

That being said, I hope you didn't buy a cheap tap set.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Paulyski

[jimdigriz 580]

If you don't, the tap is made out of harder steel than the gun & if you break it off in there..... Well the nightmare will then REALLY begin.

 

Well, it was only a nightmare for me until I actually began working to get the broken tap out. Then it was an hour-long PITA, but after that, everything worked out OK. But do try to avoid breaking it off.

 

It sounds like the OP is using cutting oil for the drilling stage. That's not necessary, and could be counter-productive(?).

 

 

That being said, I hope you didn't buy a cheap tap set.

 

Get the screwdriver handle tap wrench from Sears ($12). It saves lots of frustration, not to mention it comes with exactly the right size taps you need for this and other Saiga bullet guide projects.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

You dont want Cobalt brand bits (Lowes house brand), you want Cobalt material bits, which you can get from Lowes ie;Dewalt brand, Cobalt material.

[elvis christ 451]

Lowe's spells their store brand "Kobalt," not 'cobalt.' So if you bought Kobalt drill bits, you probably need to get something else. I've had good luck with the DeWalt, Milwaukee, and Hitachi "black gold" drill bits.

[vbrtrmn 167]

Might also want to start with the really small drill bit, I've had better luck doing that... unless you're already doing that, then carry on

[elvis christ 451]

So question about the trunnion, because I'm going to do this tonight. I do need to drill all the way through the trunnion, correct?

[thehopping1 105]

So question about the trunnion, because I'm going to do this tonight. I do need to drill all the way through the trunnion, correct?

 

Yes, drill all the way through or you won't be able to tap it to the right depth.

[elvis christ 451]

Thanks man. I'm going to do 2 of these tonight.

[elvis christ 451]

Man, that wasn't bad at all. It took a total of 10 minutes, the hole was the easiest part. My tap handle wouldn't clear the rear sight/front trunnion, so I had to use a vise grip for the tap, but I just took it slow, using cutting oil.

 

I've gotta fit my K-var bullet guide for the other rifle, shouldn't be too bad, I'm just going to use the Dinzag bullet guide as a reference.

[Dirge 4]

Man, that wasn't bad at all. It took a total of 10 minutes, the hole was the easiest part.

 

 

The hell? I just spent another hour on drilling my hole and while I've made progress, I'd say I still have a lot more drilling to do. I'd love to figure out what it is I'm doing wrong, and what everyone else is doing right.

 

Anyway, I'm using an Irwin 7/64" cobalt drill bit and I'm not using any lubricating oil. I'm keeping at a slow-to-medium speed, though what's interesting is that I went full speed a few times out of frustration and I actually got a bit more depth out of that than taking it slow. I'm past my threshold of patience, so I don't think I'm going to tap the hole. Instead, I think I'm just going lock the bolt down with a nut and some red Loctite. Or, I could borrow a hand rivet tool from a buddy and rivet that sucker onto the trunnion.

[jimdigriz 580]

I'm keeping at a slow-to-medium speed, though what's interesting is that I went full speed a few times out of frustration and I actually got a bit more depth out of that than taking it slow.

 

As long as you've got the hole started in the right place, go full speed on the drill. Just make sure you're holding it straight.

[Donkismash 81]

if you go fast with out lube you will burn up your bit

[Frankyoz 15]

Did mind with my drill on high took seconds to do then went slow threading it. Total of 15 mind start to finish just drill straight and your good sounds like your going to slow

[paprotective 362]

Is the bit spinning correctly (aka foward and not REVERSE).. Been there done that (not recently).

 

Also LEAN into it (on it).. It takes this to get BITE....

 

I started with a 1/8 bit and then just did the bit that came with the DinZag kit..

 

Tapping was a BITCH.. But did it within 2 taps..

[Dirge 4]

Time for a report. Two hours later, the dent is only a little bit bigger, and I am minus a drill bit. After two nights and three hours of work, the bit couldn't take anymore and snapped in two. The dent, meanwhile, laughs in my face.

 

I'm throwing this son of a bitch over to a gunsmith. I've had it. I only hope at this point that a drill press can still do the job. I've tried so many times, that I've effectively made a tiny circular Triforce on the trunnion and I'm worried that a drill guide's bit may wander too much to be of any use, unless it just punches through the trunnion like it was made of cheese. And unfortunately, there's no one in my area that knows how to do a TIG weld. If by some miracle a hole is put through that f^&$!)@ trunnion, I'm having it riveted in place. Then I'm going out of my area to have it welded. Then I'll cover it with Wacky Glue and have it anointed by a priest. That'll show it who's boss.

[elvis christ 451]

Dirge, where did you order your bullet guide from? I got mine from Dinzag, and went on and got the bit and tap that he offers with it. I can't remember how much it was, but I didn't really buy it, I'm doing the work on someone else's gun, and he footed the bill.

 

Anyhow (and I don't mean this anyway but constructive), I feel like you've got to be doing something blatantly wrong. I just don't see how something as simple as drilling a hole could present such a problem.

 

Are you sure the drill is turning in the right direction? Those Irwin bits are decent, I don't understand why you would be having such a problem...

 

I hope you can get it figured out, I hate to see anyone take a Saiga to a gunsmith.

[SlysSaiga 0]

I can understand Dirges frustration. Using a hand drill, I experienced similar problems when trying to remove the trigger plate rivets. Frustrated, I finished the work on my neighbors drill press and voila, like cutting through butter. What a difference! Still have to drill and tap the trunion, but drill press is the only way to go.

[Bvamp 604]

these things are made from pieces of panzer, remember. the russians sure know how to make some hard damned steel, thats for sure

[oliverb 4]

Just did mine a couple of days ago. The secret is in the quality of the bit. I have a set of DeWalt bits. Once I marked and punched the hole site, the bit went through the steel easily. You don't need high speed or lots of pressure with a quality bit.

[jeepranch 16]

Never had a problem drilling the trunnion (5 of them), rather soft compared to the receiver, having said that I broke a tap off once, and the resulting PITA to get it out had me taking the advice within here about backing out every 1/4 to 1/3 turn.

[Utah_Jay 2]

I can't help but think you have a bad bit or low quality bit. Do you have any updates on this? Did a gunsmith get the job done?

Edited February 18, 2010 by Utah_Jay

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I bought the bullet guide kit from Dinzag, which comes with everything you need (guide, screw, drill bit and tap). Maybe I was just extremely lucky............but I had never tapped a hole before, and managed the bullet guide drill/tap, with a hand drill, in a matter of minutes.

 

So I guess I'll have to +1 the "get a better bit" advice.

 

 

Does anyone know what kind of bits Dinzag includes with his BG kits? Whatever it is, it worked fine for me.

[nsnate02 32]

I got the one from Carolinashootingsupply.com with the bit and tap and it was as easy as drilling in wood. Can't help but think you are doing something wrong or using wrong parts.

[Crsswift70 1]

I got the one from Carolinashootingsupply.com with the bit and tap and it was as easy as drilling in wood. Can't help but think you are doing something wrong or using wrong parts.

 

Same. The bit from CSS chewed right through the metal with very little pressure. It's all in the bit you use. I used titanium and Kobalt bits to do the trigger guard and it was much more difficult. Wish i had used the bullet guide bit to drill a tap hole for the trigger guard rivets and spot weld.

[G O B 3,516]

Do not attempt to use a cheap ass 6V drill, use a drill with enough ass to do the job. A cheap drill will force you to use too little feed pressure, and then the heat will build up in the work and bit instead of getting carried away by the drill shavings. That can cause the work to become extremely hard and near impossible to drill.

[Stansplace 414]

Do not attempt to use a cheap ass 6V drill, use a drill with enough ass to do the job. A cheap drill will force you to use too little feed pressure, and then the heat will build up in the work and bit instead of getting carried away by the drill shavings. That can cause the work to become extremely hard and near impossible to drill.

 

Exactly GOB, this is called work hardening and it can be a pain in the ASS!

[Paulyski 2,227]

Wow...

 

A whole thread on how to drill a hole....

 

And still no victory post more than 2 months later...

 

Some people really should take their guns to gunsmiths I guess.