Cali Cop legal?

[Chumbley 3]

Hi, I'm a Peace Officer in CA and am hoping to get an S12 with some hi-cap mags. As a PO I'm allowed to own certain restricted firearms (AR 15, etc.) but I'm not sure about shotguns with removeable hi-cap mags. Anyone out there have an idea?

[nalioth 405]

Your department doesn't have a lawyer?

[DogMan 2,343]

I go To California periodically and this is why I'm afraid to take anything but a wheel gun. If this guy doesn't know what HE can carry, well....

Edited February 6, 2010 by DogMan

[arrowhead 0]

you can buy hicap mags but you are bound to the same assault weapon laws us normal peons are. any assault weapon you buy would need to be on department letterhead and thus not ""yours".

Edited February 6, 2010 by arrowhead

[Chumbley 3]

Whoa there big fellas.

 

Yeah, my department has lawyers and a bunch of other people that may or may not know anything about Russian made shotguns. Just thought I'd ask the experts first.

By the way, thanks Arrowhead. I was afraid that might be the case. I don't think the gun is banned in CA though unless it has a removeable mag (or other "scary parts"), but it was my understanding as well that CA LEOs can have hi-cap mags and so thought it might still work.

If anyone else has info I'd be greatful, and yes I will talk to my chain of command, etc. etc.

Cheers.

Edited February 7, 2010 by Chumbley

[nalioth 405]

Whoa there big fellas.

 

Yeah, my department has lawyers and a bunch of other people that may or may not know anything about Russian made shotguns.

They don't have to know where a firearm is from to tell you if it's legal or not.

 

"Detachable mag"? Check.

 

"Pistol grip?" Nope.

 

"Flash hider?" Nope.

 

and so on.

[arrowhead 0]

i'm sure you know detatchable mag fed semi auto shotguns are assault weapons in CA. us normal people can get past this with a mag lock (bullet button is most common). a "fixed" magazine over 10 rounds in a semi auto is also an assault weapon so you could not use the hicap mags with the bullet button mag lock.

 

here is a mag lock for the saiga12

http://www.parallaxtactical.com/store/ca-compliance-products-2/saiga-78/

 

 

 

if your department will give you the thumbs up on letterhead then you really only have the fed NFA to hold you back on gun buying.

[Chumbley 3]

Thanks again.

Nalioth, I get it. You really want me to call a lawyer. First thing Monday OK?

[Bvamp 604]

Chumby -

 

You can have a saiga12 in CA. If you want to use it for duty use WITHOUT a maglock, the gun must be purchased on department letterhead, and if this is the case, certain restrictions no longer apply to you.

 

If its a personal use weapon, then it must have a maglock on it, and you are limited to ten round mags, unless you get a drum on department letterhead. further, personal use weapon means no telescoping or folding stocks with a pistol grip on the gun, which of course, a duty weapon on department letterhead changes that.

 

If you are in the market for a converted gun either for duty or personal use, let me know, and we will see what we can do for you. We are ALWAYS looking for duty use officers to help promote our weapons to other LEO, so Im sure we can swork something out with you, either way.

 

See my business section here on the forum, to give you an idea of what my company has to offer you, or your department.

 

-Ben Vampatella

[arrowhead 0]

"If its a personal use weapon, then it must have a maglock on it, and you are limited to ten round mags, unless you get a drum on department letterhead. "

 

 

this is wrong

 

 

hicap mags/drums do not need letterhead.

 

 

if he puts a hicap/drum in a centerfire semi auto personal use weapon with a mag lock he just made an assault weapon.

 

guns on department letterhead are the only way for cops to get a legal assault weapon in CA.

[Bvamp 604]

ok what he said. so the hi caps can only go into the department guns. goes to show you that I need to bite the bullet, and download the CA state firearms laws and memorize them too....

 

either way, a duty use saiga12 is preferred by LEO I know now, with either the factory 5 rounder, or factory 8 rounder in it.

 

 

 

as for department letterhead, we still are accepting LEOs to demo our FA line of saigas, specifically the FA saiga-12.

[RoughRider666 47]

Chumby -

 

You can have a saiga12 in CA. If you want to use it for duty use WITHOUT a maglock, the gun must be purchased on department letterhead, and if this is the case, certain restrictions no longer apply to you.

 

If its a personal use weapon, then it must have a maglock on it, and you are limited to ten round mags, unless you get a drum on department letterhead. further, personal use weapon means no telescoping or folding stocks with a pistol grip on the gun, which of course, a duty weapon on department letterhead changes that.

 

If you are in the market for a converted gun either for duty or personal use, let me know, and we will see what we can do for you. We are ALWAYS looking for duty use officers to help promote our weapons to other LEO, so Im sure we can swork something out with you, either way.

 

See my business section here on the forum, to give you an idea of what my company has to offer you, or your department.

 

-Ben Vampatella

 

Christ all mighty! lol if you need more than 10 rounds in ANY state for a home defense situation with a Shotgun, then Shit really has hit the fan! LOL

 

hell, doesnt the Benelli semi-auto that the military uses only hold 8 rounds?

Edited February 8, 2010 by RoughRider666

[Chumbley 3]

Learned some stuff and thought I'd post it here for others with similar questions. I spoke with the CA Dept of Justice firearms division. According to them (confirming what someone said here) I (or any citizen) can get an S12 with non-removeable mag, up to 10 rounds, without department authorization. It is however required that you check with the County DAs office as some countys prohibit bullet buttons.

To get the S12 with detachable mags and in "assault weapon" configuration, I will need to secure a letter from my dept, on letterhead, that is 1) addressed to the gun dealer, 2) identifies me as a Peace Officer, 3) indicates that I have permission to buy a specific make/model of weapon.

After I get the weapon I have to register it with DOJ as an assault weapon and include my Department letter.

When I retire/quit the gun is still mine/legal in it's "assault" configuration

As a PO I am apparently allowed to purchase hi-cap mags, but could not install them on a non-authorized shotgun.

Hope this helps.

Mr. Vampatella, thanks for the info. I'll check out your site and should contact you soon.

[Bvamp 604]

Well, you let us know if you want something for duty use, and we will provide a bang-stick to you that will scare your perps into submission. If you are going to use it for any type of carry role, maybe we should look into an NFA type of item for you.

[IVsamhell 0]

"If its a personal use weapon, then it must have a maglock on it, and you are limited to ten round mags, unless you get a drum on department letterhead. "

 

 

this is wrong

 

 

hicap mags/drums do not need letterhead.

 

 

if he puts a hicap/drum in a centerfire semi auto personal use weapon with a mag lock he just made an assault weapon.

 

guns on department letterhead are the only way for cops to get a legal assault weapon in CA.

 

this is wrong. that applies to centerfire rifles, not shotguns.

 

There is no regulation for capacity of semi-auto shotguns.

Edited March 11, 2010 by IVsamhell

[Gunfanatic 221]

[308SAIGA 55]

Whoa there big fellas.

 

Yeah, my department has lawyers and a bunch of other people that may or may not know anything about Russian made shotguns.

They don't have to know where a firearm is from to tell you if it's legal or not.

 

"Detachable mag"? Check.

 

"Pistol grip?" Nope.

 

"Flash hider?" Nope.

 

and so on.

 

NO?? So you can not own a AR15/10/FAL/PRT-91 or any other PG weapons? This is the first time I have heard of this. Yes their is a mag capacity restriction, collapsible stocks must be pinned and the pins can not be removable, but this is the first on PG weapons... You still have to play the Federal 10 or less game then the State laws game of CA....

[eric1785 15]

Cadiz is about the best to deal with customizing saigas, not only do they make some sweet weapons, their customer service is like no other. Companys with customer service like that should win awards.

[IVsamhell 0]

Whoa there big fellas.

 

Yeah, my department has lawyers and a bunch of other people that may or may not know anything about Russian made shotguns.

They don't have to know where a firearm is from to tell you if it's legal or not.

 

"Detachable mag"? Check.

 

"Pistol grip?" Nope.

 

"Flash hider?" Nope.

 

and so on.

 

NO?? So you can not own a AR15/10/FAL/PRT-91 or any other PG weapons? This is the first time I have heard of this. Yes their is a mag capacity restriction, collapsible stocks must be pinned and the pins can not be removable, but this is the first on PG weapons... You still have to play the Federal 10 or less game then the State laws game of CA....

 

 

Outside of some listed models, CA can have alot of weapons/features. Just neutered. With any "evil features" rifles to have a magazine locking device(with that you can't exceed a capacity of 10 rounds), minimum barrel length of 16" -overall fireable length no less 30". If those are covered pistol grip, collapsible/folding stock, or any other evil features are fine. thats for centerfire rifles, shotguns are another game.

Edited April 10, 2010 by IVsamhell

[vintagedude88 16]

 

Christ all mighty! lol if you need more than 10 rounds in ANY state for a home defense situation with a Shotgun, then Shit really has hit the fan! LOL

 

hell, doesnt the Benelli semi-auto that the military uses only hold 8 rounds?

 

LOL the Benelli M4 holds 5 rounds.

[vintagedude88 16]

Learned some stuff and thought I'd post it here for others with similar questions. I spoke with the CA Dept of Justice firearms division. According to them (confirming what someone said here) I (or any citizen) can get an S12 with non-removeable mag, up to 10 rounds, without department authorization. It is however required that you check with the County DAs office as some countys prohibit bullet buttons.

To get the S12 with detachable mags and in "assault weapon" configuration, I will need to secure a letter from my dept, on letterhead, that is 1) addressed to the gun dealer, 2) identifies me as a Peace Officer, 3) indicates that I have permission to buy a specific make/model of weapon.

After I get the weapon I have to register it with DOJ as an assault weapon and include my Department letter.

When I retire/quit the gun is still mine/legal in it's "assault" configuration

As a PO I am apparently allowed to purchase hi-cap mags, but could not install them on a non-authorized shotgun.

Hope this helps.

Mr. Vampatella, thanks for the info. I'll check out your site and should contact you soon.

 

Wow, now I don't feel so bad. Even the cops have trouble with CA gun laws.

 

Of course, how easy is it for you to get a "department letter"? Would it be as easy as me getting tax stamp?

[L5K 162]

This thread amuses me. California is a funny place. I'd like to go some day if it ever becomes a reasonable place again.

[icefire 10]

"It is however required that you check with the County DAs office as some countys prohibit bullet buttons."

 

 

 

Could someone tell me what counties in Cali outlawed bullet buttons as stated in a previous post? I can not find that info on calguns or from anyone here in cali, where i have lived for almost 50 years....

Edited July 21, 2010 by icefire

[frick 3]

Aint it great when LE has to go through hoops because they live in a communist state, and us free citizens elsewhere can get our assault rifles and shotguns at the local, drunken, fire department gun bash/giveaway?

 

I'm pretty sure thats what keeps U Haul in business.

 

And, as an FFL, fuck Cali, I won't ship a firearm to a civilian, or LE, as far as I am concerned no self respecting dealer or gun manufacturer should.

 

IF you allow your state to regulate guns that much, without marching on the capital with the guns you have left, none of you deserve them, especially the government, or police, who are the ONES arresting people for non compliant firearms, when they DONT UNDERSTAND THE LAWS THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Just see Barrett firearms, and their position on it, at least they have some balls.

[RoughRider666 47]

"It is however required that you check with the County DAs office as some countys prohibit bullet buttons."

 

 

 

Could someone tell me what counties in Cali outlawed bullet buttons as stated in a previous post? I can not find that info on calguns or from anyone here in cali, where i have lived for almost 50 years....

 

Ive never heard that and im from CA...I think someone is blowing smoke up someones ass on that one! Quite honestly, im not sure an individual county has that kind of authority in the first place, and if they were trying to pull such shit, I would openly question the legality of it and Calguns and the NRA would jump all over it im sure!

Edited October 2, 2010 by RoughRider666

[Gibbles 23]

I go To California periodically and this is why I'm afraid to take anything but a wheel gun. If this guy doesn't know what HE can carry, well....

 

 

I head into that state often, usually I only bring my S&W 60 or a 1911 due to the weird confusing laws...

 

Most of my pistols hold to much ammo or are not on the allowed list, but I know my 1911 is gtg, so it usually goes with me, and it's faster for me to load than the revolver since I can't have a loaded gun or even ammo with gun in my car in that retarded state, the 1911 is simple for me.

[DogMan 2,343]

I go To California periodically and this is why I'm afraid to take anything but a wheel gun. If this guy doesn't know what HE can carry, well....

 

 

I head into that state often, usually I only bring my S&W 60 or a 1911 due to the weird confusing laws...

 

Most of my pistols hold to much ammo or are not on the allowed list, but I know my 1911 is gtg, so it usually goes with me, and it's faster for me to load than the revolver since I can't have a loaded gun or even ammo with gun in my car in that retarded state, the 1911 is simple for me.

 

I know "a guy" who keeps one round in the cab with the gun anyway, thinking that if the worst happens then that one round could save his life, and if the second worst thing happens then that one round is no bigger than a suppository.

[Gibbles 23]

I go To California periodically and this is why I'm afraid to take anything but a wheel gun. If this guy doesn't know what HE can carry, well....

 

 

I head into that state often, usually I only bring my S&W 60 or a 1911 due to the weird confusing laws...

 

Most of my pistols hold to much ammo or are not on the allowed list, but I know my 1911 is gtg, so it usually goes with me, and it's faster for me to load than the revolver since I can't have a loaded gun or even ammo with gun in my car in that retarded state, the 1911 is simple for me.

 

I know "a guy" who keeps one round in the cab with the gun anyway, thinking that if the worst happens then that one round could save his life, and if the second worst thing happens then that one round is no bigger than a suppository.

 

 

took me a minute at this early hour to figure out that "suppository" comment

[Javelinadave 1]

A three gun match in Kalifornia must be pretty funny to watch. I have never tried to jam rounds down a magazine while it is still inserted into the weapon.

I have to ask............... Do Californians feel any safer with these gun laws?

[stix213 3]

This thread is a bit old, but I notice is has some incorrect information in it.

 

LEO's can buy a Saiga-12 in fixed magazine configuration and run 20 round drum mags on it without any department letterhead crap. California's AW ban limits magazine capacity to 10 rounds for fixed magazine semi-auto pistols and fixed magazine centerfire semi-auto rifles ONLY. Fixed magazine shotguns have no magazine size limit. (CA PC 12276.1)

 

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12276.1.html

 

There is a separate import/sale/manufacture ban on 11+ round magazines in place, but that exempts LEO's (CA PC 12020). Also the CGF is in the process of working around this ban for the rest of us as we speak. We're probably about 4 months away or so from everyone being able to buy adult sized magazines again here (CGF is the people who got AK's and AR's legal again in CA in the first place, so this isn't a joke).

Edited April 22, 2011 by stix213