blowstuffup 1 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 would brasso metal polish work similarly to the red/white jewelers rouge? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 would brasso metal polish work similarly to the red/white jewelers rouge? Brasso is really a cleaner....won't put a 'polish' on the bolt-assy. Reprofiling is more important than polish. Angle everything to work in conjunction, then make it slick w/ the polishing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 After the angling, I prefer to remove the sharp transitions so friction is reduced while the bolt rotates & the lower shells are pressed against it.... Profile is very important, but every little bit helps when matching surfaces texture to function. GlassBolthas many varying levels of finish, even functional jeweling all engineered to treat the function that each different facet or aspect performs be it traveling over plastic, rotation movements, sliding metal to metal, etc... As one can see, many different textures are applied depending on function of the surface treated. Inside the bolt too. This improves performance. Real world testimonials can attest to this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thenomadrhodes 1 Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 i'd like to but in and ask a question. What happens if you mess your bolt up while your polishing it and some thing breaks.. Is there any one that sells OEM parts for these guns? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Parson Julabee Jones 32 Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 I asked the question of a guy at MERCURY/HERMES, which is one of the perhaps several importers, and he indicated the answer would be "no". Unless, as he said, some of the warranty distributors had some "old parts lying around". This would have been about two weeks ago.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 i'd like to but in and ask a question. What happens if you mess your bolt up while your polishing it and some thing breaks.. Is there any one that sells OEM parts for these guns? Not currently. This mod is better left to the pros if you are not 100% confident in your abilities. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrmallek 53 Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 If you do mess it up - all is not lost. There are very qualified forum business members who can repair it for you. The cost will most likely be subjective to the amount of work required to repair. I believe Pauly, Cobra, Mike (Waffensmied), Tony (Tromix), CGW, and I'm sure others can do this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thenomadrhodes 1 Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 So If you F up your bolt your just ****ed right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted May 26, 2011 Report Share Posted May 26, 2011 I have personally tested a few of the G2's on a Rockwell tester. They are heat treated, but are hit and miss on their hardness. They vary quite a bit for a treated part. This could be because of the carbon content of the base metal or the way they are treating them. I haven't seen any variations that would cause serious problems such as cracking/breaking or deformation. What was the variance between units that you noted? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Had to give you a +1 on that Mike. I'd always thought each business member should have a sticky in their business section with a bio on who they are, certs, pictures of the facility....a bit of a resume. Years ago I posted something like "who is Tony Rumore" to which he responded with a pretty detailed post of his life experience and business. It was probably one of the more interesting things I've read on the forum and it's good to put yourself out there and let people know. At some point Mike D and Cameron had also did a bit of the same. As far as I know, nobody has done it as a sticky or listed there certs on a sig line, but agreed it's a great idea-maybe you can start a trend, if nothing else I see you have it listed on your web page. If you consider yourself a professional it seems to stand you should be proud of it and put it out for everyone to see. Edited May 28, 2011 by 6500rpm 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Parson Julabee Jones 32 Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 On the other hand, even the top-notch, highly rated pros....weren't born that way. And at some point, they had to get the experience and knowledge necessary to do this kind of work. And naturally, trusting anyone without the requisite knowledge and experience to do quality work with a very high safety standard is the way to unhappiness and perhaps worse. But I would suspect that many of those pros began their professional lives as avid and enthusiastic amateurs, amateurs just such as many of us. And that those amateurs (who would one day become pros) profiled and polished their own bolts, working on their own guns, learned how to judge, evaluate, speculate and do at least a modicum of their own work, and do it safely. Sure, there are fools out there, who take amazing risks....but as an example, about every other post, posted in every other thread, on Shotgun World's "reloading" forum insists that one not go beyond the specifics in any given published load data. Else, the readers are warned, the shotgun may well blow up in their face. And yet, in this age of instantaneous communication, I've yet to hear about a shotgun reloader whose gun has blown up in his face....have you? Yes, it can happen. But again, while fools aplenty there are, they for most part, know not to fool with guns when being fools. As to amateurs becoming pros, it happens all the time, and in thousands of disciplines and interests worldwide. That's not a road I'll ever travel again, for in my past (in which I've done just about everything possible for a living, save being a Mafia contract killer, although a neighbor says I shoot enough I should be well equipped for the job), I've found that invariably, the hobby that produces so much joy, so much fun, so much stimulation....quickly becomes a bore, a chore and a drag, when the amateur puts out a shingle, and then begins to get work....soon followed by emails and phone calls, letters and visits, inquiring at to what on earth IS TAKING SO LONG TO DO MY JOB? I'd advise the amateur to do the things he/she can do, take no shortcuts and enjoy every aspect of the task, knowing that failure can be extremely costly...and when in doubt, even slight doubt, go to the pros. They're paid not only for what they do, but for what they know as well. And as for forum members using forum businesses? The pros share their knowledge selflessly. And by 'selflessly' I mean that many times, their sharing with us, means fewer sales for them. If their sharing knowledge with me means lost sales for them, why would I be such a fool as to go to non-member businesses and suppliers when it's something I cannot do safely? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) After reading post #136 in this thread I had to start back at the beginning and figure out why I had the confidence to do my own polish job on the bolt, carrier, and FCG. Hell, if I had read that a year ago I may not have even bought a Saiga. I lurked here for months before joining and did so because of the knowledge and wealth of information available here. Information that I could use. Especially the information in the first three pages of this very thread. I studied those pages for weeks. It's not like I didn't have any mechanical ability or aptitude before. I had just never worked on a Saiga shotgun before, and between the pictures and the guidance given by Pauly, Cobra, and Mike Rogers in this thread, I was willing and able to do the job myself. Mike, don't discount the ability of some "amateurs" here. I understand that you are trying to save some people from potentially ruining an investment, but there are people capable that are not professional. They just need to realize their own personal limitations. Edited May 28, 2011 by Yeoldetool 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 So If you F up your bolt your just ****ed right? I've TIG welded repairs to bolts & carriers that others have screwed up. I used to offer it on this thread, but don't get much personal satisfaction out of the task so removed that post. The bottom of the carrier resets the hammer, & if too much material is taken off, the hammer will fail to be placed into the disconnecter & will follow the carrier forward, coming to rest on the safety stop at the back of the carrier that's there to prevent slamfire should that happen. This is the most common mistake for a DIY'er. If someone punches through the bolt & steel needs to be added it should be backed with copper from the back of the base metal then after the weld is completed, properly heat treated. These are the repairs I've personally done. I know the bolt's & carrier's properties, correct steel to use wen TIG welding on them & how the factory heat treats. The information isn't too elusive if one is resourceful. It's actually a common steel used in gear drives, heavy duty fasteners & weapons in Russia & other com-bloc countries. I know for a fact that Tony of Tromix has repaired bolts also & I think Jack of JT Engineering has too. Not exactly something I personally want to do though. But generally, they can be repaired if one is capable of working steel & knows what they're doing. What all's involved depends on what aspect of the mod a person screws up, everyone's current work load & if the person in question even wants to take the job on. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TIGERARMS 0 Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 This is actually my first post, but I have been creeping the forum for a while... I read through this thread, and polished my bolt using the advise of everyone here. I have a good deal of experience with the tools (son of a machinist) and this project was relatively simple, even using a Dremel. I used a combination of a 'flap wheel', finishing abrasive buffs and the felt wheels and rouge. I took my time, and the final result was a SMOOTH mirror finish. I took her out to the farm this past weekend, and ran 100 rounds of target load (walmart special), as well as a bunch of buck shot. Compared to how it cycled before (jammed up on just about everything), I could not believe how well it worked. ZERO jams all day, and the more I fired it, the smoother the action became. So in short, I just wanted to take a minute to thank all of you who contributed to this thread. I have all my conversion parts on order, as well as a few extra goodies, and I will be sure to post up some nice pics when I get it all together. Thanks guys... I look forward to more interaction on here in the coming days. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Since the bolts/carriers are irreplaceable, and profiling is critital. I would suggest going to someone well versed in this operation. Cobra, Pauly, and myself offer this service and we all do exceptional work. Matt 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
v8rx7guy 9 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) Pauly Does Top Notch Work! I don’t even need to say anything just go to his vendor page and look what people have to say about him! I would never risk polishing something that could easily be messed up... Once you go too far, It’s a long ways to recover and a lot more effort and time to make it right again not worth risking ! Contact this guy! Friendly customer service, Really goes the extra length to make sure everything he does exceeds professional standards. http://forum.saiga-1...om-fabrication/ Check out his new Supreme WORK and look at his glass bolts.... ! Edited June 20, 2011 by V8rx7ShotgunGuy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scriswell 0 Posted July 2, 2011 Report Share Posted July 2, 2011 This is my first post, although I read a lot before registering...great info and a ton of help. I bought my Saiga 12 when I heard about the ATF potential ban a couple of months ago. I took it to the range and it did not cycle well. I live in St. Charles, MO, and a reference from a local shooting range, UD Range, told me a lot of agencies take their stuff to C&S Metall Werkes. I went by and spoke with Matt who does their Saiga work. He took the gun apart and said it likely needed port work done to it, but that he could likely modify the bolt and make it shoot all varieties of ammo. This was important to me as I bought the Saiga as a contingency weapon. I reluctantly agreed to a bolt modification, since I know that is permanent! Needless to say, even though I saw all the machinery in the shop and spoke with a lot of agencies that got their stuff done at C&S, I was nervous. After a couple of weeks, I got my Saiga back, I also had a Galil charging handle put on. I was very anxious to take it to the range. To my amazement, it fired everything I threw at it like a knife through butter!!!! This guy did not over promise. I was so relieved. It is amazing how well it cycles. I haven't timed it, but I would swear the cyclic rate is slightly faster. I have easily fed rounds through a 5 and 12 rd mag as well as a 20 rd drum. This is absolutely worth doing. It runs like a tank. I took pictures of all the ammo fired and will try to attach. Good luck to anyone having issues. You might try C&S! Ammo test photos Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jhelmuth 3 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Just sent mine off to Pauly for the Glass Bolt service. As many of you have reported about how well it makes your S12 "work" so much more smoothly and with all types of ammo and I'm hoing to see the same results. Mine worked fine as delivered, but I'm hoping to see some improvement and maybe I can reduce the gass requirement for proper cycling (which I assume is better for the S12 in the long run). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OBITUARY 12 Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Under promise and over deliver is a great business policy! I have also done my own profile and polish and would like to thank everyone that posted valuable knowledge!!! I have studied those posts and pics alot . I have experiance porting and polishing high performance heads and other custom/performance parts so I wanted to do it knowing full well the consequences . Runs like a champ and sure is smooth now. Thanks again for the wealth of knowledge! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Under promise and over deliver is a great business policy! I have also done my own profile and polish and would like to thank everyone that posted valuable knowledge!!! I have studied those posts and pics alot . I have experiance porting and polishing high performance heads and other custom/performance parts so I wanted to do it knowing full well the consequences . Runs like a champ and sure is smooth now. Thanks again for the wealth of knowledge! Welcome to the club. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElvisShotFirst 1 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) How do you polish the bolt? Easy. You mail it to Pauly:) he just got mine back to me and it is amazing Pauly's handiwork Edited August 28, 2011 by ElvisShotFirst Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 How do you polish the bolt? Easy. You mail it to Pauly:) he just got mine back to me and it is amazing Pauly's handiwork Looks great! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
featherhead 4 Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 I polished and buffed my bolt carrier and decided to go ahead and do a jeweling job. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Conley 0 Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 that looks nice. This thread is why I chose my forum name at this time... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 that looks nice. This thread is why I chose my forum name at this time... Well, let's see what you came up with Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Conley 0 Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 It is not near as nice as yours. That much is for sure. I basically took off the paint and shined it up a little. With the warnings of taking too much off, I decided to play it safe. real safe. hehe - bolt polisher was a joke btw... I will post up some pix this afternoon. I may go to the range again after work to put a few more down the field. I appreciate you guys! Peace out from Texas, Conley Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Conley 0 Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 It is not near as nice as yours. That much is for sure. I basically took off the paint and shined it up a little. With the warnings of taking too much off, I decided to play it safe. real safe. hehe - bolt polisher was a joke btw... I will post up some pix this afternoon. I may go to the range again after work to put a few more down the field. I appreciate you guys! Peace out from Texas, Conley I can't link them here, but you can click on the lilnks http://www.joyfulnoiseproductions.org/IMAG0048.jpg http://www.joyfulnoiseproductions.org/IMAG0049.jpg http://www.joyfulnoiseproductions.org/IMAG0050.jpg http://www.joyfulnoiseproductions.org/IMAG0051.jpg http://www.joyfulnoiseproductions.org/IMAG0052.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrey035 2 Posted September 27, 2011 Report Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) Ill play. Just finished re-profiling and polishing. I think it turned out ok. It super smooth and functioned 100% better afterwards. Sorry for the bad pics, Its really hard to capture. Edited September 27, 2011 by jrey035 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon Wigley 0 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I polished and buffed my bolt carrier and decided to go ahead and do a jeweling job. I polished and buffed my bolt carrier and decided to go ahead and do a jeweling job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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