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350oshin

how do i polish the bolt?

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I've just about finished my bolt. Cobra was kind enough to let me use some of the tools in his shop to do my bolt. I haven't finished polishing yet but i already have a pretty smooth surface. I did the hammer with my dremel in my living room the other day. The action is a lot smoother now and it's easier to load when the bolt is closed :wub:

post-20691-126903970661_thumb.jpg

post-20691-12690402208833_thumb.jpg

Edited by Rusty truck

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:rolleyes:Thanks for the info. Beautifully done!

You're very welcome.

 

 

 

I consolidated some posts & a PM to help exemplify first personal process for this minor bolt mod in one post. I'm not adding pics of others work in an effort to avoid conflict, but as this is the bolt sticky, I feel it should be somewhat complete, so feel free to post your pics of your own bolts.

 

ok guys i already have my wood on order for my conversion and i already have all the other conversion parts. i have also fired 150 rounds of federal bulk pack from wally world no problem with the gunfixers plug! now until my wood set comes in i want to polish the whole bolt and all moving parts. i know i can send it out to get it polished but i need any reason to bust out my dremel!!! so can anyone tell me how they polished there bolt and if they have pics please post them up!!!

This is a way to do the mod for DIY'res.

This is my first bolt mod.

GlassBolthas advanced greatly since, but this is a good way for those who can't afford to send their parts out, or those who simply refuse to have anybody else do work on their weapon.

 

First & foremost, NEVER touch this part. It keeps the hammer from striking the firing pin before the gun is in full battery.

 

Untitled-6-1.jpg

 

Also, do not reduce the size of the feed foot.

The feed foot is the part on the bolt that pushes the shell out of the mag & also holds the rim of the hull opposite of the extractor.

I'm editing this post to include this because people keep screwing it up.

 

 

To shape, I used a fine dremmel sanding drum.

675272.jpg

To smooth, I used abrasive prep pads on a drill. Dremmel also makes abrasive buffs,

4007677179_dd83fe2cbd_m.jpg

but I have a bunch of drill mount pads that I got cheap, so I saved the dremmel buffs for tighter quarters work in the future.

To polish, I used the dremmel, with wool pads & red polishing compound.

DremelBuff.jpg

 

I only addressed the areas that move against the shells & hammer as the bolt rotates, extracts & feeds & the carrier re-cocks the hammer.

I did not remove as much steel as some do, due to the fact that I fire a lot of 3" magnum & don't wish to compromise the integrity of my bolt or punch though it.

 

It now cycles even smoother than before & loading mags on a closed bolt is easier.

gallery_19652_3_6168.jpg

 

 

gallery_19652_3_4844.jpg

 

 

Here is a pic of a heavier mod.

A little too deep for my tastes.

image008.jpg

If I should feel like I'm having issues due to the bolt, I may go deeper, but it is working very well at the present time, so Why fix it?

I'm not having mag insertion issues & polished as it is, they insert even smoother now

 

I also did a bit of work on the FCG, smoothing out the sharp horns on the hammer, & just polishing contact or friction bearing surfaces on the rest.

 

I stopped at abrasive buffs on the carrier rails, because it was good enough.

The gun is VERY dependable.

2s9.jpg

 

 

 

Just take your time & keep the tool moving to achieve smooth results.

 

<insert shameless add>

 

However, if you'd like the best possible out of this mod for reliability, GlassBolt has really come up since my first mod.

Top industry consultants have converged to bring the mod to the pinicle of perfection & I now offer the service to the public! :super:

 

Here's a link to what could be...

 

GlassBolts008-2.gif

001-1-2.gif

IceRackSupreme002.jpg

3CH0141280x395-1.gif

 

I guess what I am asking is which part of the bolt is the most important part to polish to be able to load on a full mag. Also which part do I stay away from. I want to polish/reshape the the bare min.

 

Look through the magwell with the bolt closed.

That's the part that needs to be polished.

 

Look at the sideview of mine (the smaller pic on tile) don't go much farther down than that.

You don't want to remove TOO much steel & weaken the bolt.

Shock over time can make light steel crack, that's why I researched the steel & came up with the exact profile of GlassBolt. It's the best of all worlds without compromising strength.

 

Minorboltmod3-1.jpg

 

The Polishing & making it slick helps greatly as does a working profile that reduces friction.

 

 

 

Pull the carrier back while looking at the bolt through the magwell. See the sharp bumps moving as the bolt rotates? Those will be pressing on the rounds as the gun cycles. Rounding them greatly reduces force needed to overcome friction.

 

You are only shaping & polishing the third or so that actually makes contact with the shells that are in the mag.

Removal of steel that doesn't have contact with the round is counterproductive.

You see these faces as you pull the carrier back while looking at it from the bottom of the gun with the mag removed.

You are making a gentler slope for when the bolt pulls back over the shells in the mag too.

Keep in mind that just the center of the shell is touching the bolt.

 

 

I was thinking of polishing my bolt. Should I? What are the pro's and con's?

Thanks for any helpful advice.

Reduces friction for mag insertion, & reduces friction for light loads as the bolt rotates.

Mike Davidson of MD Arms recommends it for running low brass through the drum more reliably without changing spring settings.

In short, it smoothens up the action greatly .

I can't think of any cons.

 

If one were to remove too much metal from the hammer face & the bottom of the carrier, there would be a possibility of the hammer not making it into the disconnecter, thus not resetting.

Therefore, don't go crazy with metal removal.

 

Don't try to go to the same dimensions as GlassBolt either without being able to measure the wall thickness where the bolt head inserts.

If you go too far, you'll have issues that are costly to repair.

 

Glassbolt is constantly measured & engineered to ensure optimal strength by KEEPING steel in key areas.

Don't trust any pictures other than the first that I posted.

My polish on GlassBolt reflects everything so pictures of GlassBolt are quite deceptive.

Looking good Paulyski!

 

I need to take pics of mine. LOL

 

 

Corbin

You should.

This is the place to post them.

Then we likely wouldn't have these threads constantly popping up. ;)

 

I have more pics, but I'm only posting mine in this thread to avoid the possibility of conflict in a sticky.

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If anyone has a mangled bolt (or carrier) that they went too far on, I can add steel & rebuild it.

 

 

I have 4 welders & can heat treat, so if you screwed up & have a useless bolt, PM me with Pictures & we'll see what I can do! :up:

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Can just pulling the charging handle over and over polish everything where it needs to be polished? It is is already mirror-like on the edges that contact.

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Can't you also polish everything that needs to be polished by just pulling the charging handle over and over? It is already mirror-like on the edges that contact from shooting. Not the whole surface, just the corners.

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Even if you pulled it a trillion times, it would not be nearly the same thing....that said, a gun that has been shot thousands of times is a lot more worn down in the high friction areas. To me, polishing all the mating surfaces first, is more than just a shortcut to "breaking it in"... it prevents wear, especially uneven wear, by making those surfaces as smooth as possible to begin with...allowing less wear.

Not only that, the main purpose of reworking the bolt itself, is to lessen the pressure and friction on the part of the bolt that the shells first hit against while inserting a mag on a closed bolt. After the bolt has been reworked and polished well, what used to be a lot of resistance on the top round, becomes almost no no resistance. This makes for much easier full mag insertion, less deformity of the top round if left loaded, and less resistance against the top round under mag spring pressure, when the bolt is riding over that round while retracting....on the initial charge, and after each shot.

This = smoother cycling.

 

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Awesome, works well with most low brass :) I still cant get it to work with independencs shells, but I think they're just so bad ill never get them to work. Thx everyone. :super:

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Can just pulling the charging handle over and over polish everything where it needs to be polished? It is is already mirror-like on the edges that contact.

What Cobra said is correct.

 

It's not just about polishing, it's the re-profile too.

Knocking down the excess angles edges that move against the rounds reduces force needed to cycle the gun.

Kinda like if you were to try to roll a hexagon shaped ball, as opposed to rolling a circular ball.

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This PDF shows what and where to polish. Don't know the accuracy so use at your own risk.

 

Do any of you pros have any feedback on the mods in this PDF?

 

My feed area has a pretty sharp angle right where the PDF says to grind down.. Seems like it would make sense, I just don't want to cause any issues..

Polishing_Molot_Vepr_12_and_Saiga_12.pdf

Edited by Tram
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I took a few pics of the bolt on my first S-12 to post up as a example of how much can be removed without busting through.

 

that said your results may vary, and you should use due caution when removing a lot of material from the bolt.

 

Thanks to the Tromix crew for posting one of Tonys bolts. I used his image as a guide for mine when I did it the first time.

P3170597.JPG

P3170598.JPG

P3170599.JPG

P3170601.JPG

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Well having wood like you do is a great start. Basically just pick a hand, apply lube and go to work, even strokes, slow yet firm. You can increase speed as you need based on how close you are to climax/completion. One important thing to consider and this is important because a lot of people tend to do this, (more than you would think) do not by any means neglect the nuts while polishing the bolt. You will be amazed at how fast this brings the task to completion. Hope this helps and good luck. Oh and uh...pics or it didn't happen.

 

:lolol: :lolol: :lolol:

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ok guys i already have my wood on order for my conversion and i already have all the other conversion parts. i have also fired 150 rounds of federal bulk pack from wally world no problem with the gunfixers plug! now until my wood set comes in i want to polish the whole bolt and all moving parts. i know i can send it out to get it polished but i need any reason to bust out my dremel!!! so can anyone tell me how they polished there bolt and if they have pics please post them up!!!

To shape, I used a fine dremmel sanding drum.

675272.jpg

To smooth, I used abrasive prep pads on a drill. Dremmel also makes abrasive buffs,

4007677179_dd83fe2cbd_m.jpg

but I have a bunch of drill mount pads that I got cheap, so I saved the dremmel buffs for tighter quarters work in the future.

To polish, I used the dremmel, with wool pads & red polishing compound.

DremelBuff.jpg

 

I only addressed the areas that move against the shells & hammer as the bolt rotates, extracts & feeds & the carrier re-cocks the hammer.

I did not remove as much steel as some do, due to the fact that I fire a lot of 3" magnum & don't wish to compromise the integrity of my bolt.

 

It now cycles even smoother than before & loading mags on a closed bolt is easier.

 

gallery_19652_3_6168.jpg

gallery_19652_3_4844.jpg

 

Here is a pic of a heavier mod.

A little too deep for my tastes.

image008.jpg

If I should feel like I'm having issues due to the bolt, I may go deeper, but it is working very well at the present time, so Why fix it?

I'm not having mag insertion issues & polished as it is, they insert even smoother now

 

I also did a bit of work on the FCG, smoothing out the sharp horns on the hammer, & just polishing contact or friction bearing surfaces on the rest.

 

I stopped at abrasive buffs on the carrier rails, because it was good enough.

The gun is VERY dependable.

2s9.jpg

 

Just take your time & keep the tool moving to achieve smooth results.

 

Nice job Paul. Well done!

 

 

I purchased one of your saigas with the polished bolts about 9 months ago, works great, thank you again!

Aaron

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Does anyone have a side by side pic of an untouched factory bolt vs. a re-profiled bolt. I want to re-work my bolt for closed bolt mag insertions, but I don't know how much to take it down... Thanks in advance.

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Well having wood like you do is a great start. Basically just pick a hand, apply lube and go to work, even strokes, slow yet firm. You can increase speed as you need based on how close you are to climax/completion. One important thing to consider and this is important because a lot of people tend to do this, (more than you would think) do not by any means neglect the nuts while polishing the bolt. You will be amazed at how fast this brings the task to completion. Hope this helps and good luck. Oh and uh...pics or it didn't happen.

:lolol: :lolol: :lolol:

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Can just pulling the charging handle over and over polish everything where it needs to be polished? It is is already mirror-like on the edges that contact.

What Cobra said is correct.

 

It's not just about polishing, it's the re-profile too.

Knocking down the excess angles edges that move against the rounds reduces force needed to cycle the gun.

Kinda like if you were to try to roll a hexagon shaped ball, as opposed to rolling a circular ball.

 

I beg to differ....hand cycling does help with breakin polished or not. Anyone who is skeptical can try it themselves.

 

most people over polish and most surfaces they polish are not necessary.

 

The recontouring is more important than the polishing. There are thousands of these weapons used by the military without any polishing.

 

I'm not saying not to polish, I also polish but proper recontouring will give you the biggest performance gain.

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Nobody ever said hand cycling didn't do any good at all. Of course it does over time, and over that time the gun is being shot. Are you saying you would actually recommend someone sit there and cycle the action on an AK for as long as it would take to polish all the mating surfaces just by metal on metal contact?

Whether cycling by hand or by actual shooting, it doesn't matter how many times you do it, it's not going to have the desired effect that recontouring and then polishing is going to have. That's what I was saying. I'm mostly referring to Saiga shotguns here, not thousands of AKs in use by the military for decades. The Saiga shotgun is a whole different animal.

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Does anyone have a side by side pic of an untouched factory bolt vs. a re-profiled bolt. I want to re-work my bolt for closed bolt mag insertions, but I don't know how much to take it down... Thanks in advance.

 

 

This picture would be worth 10000000000000000 words!! Please!

 

Diego

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Can just pulling the charging handle over and over polish everything where it needs to be polished? It is is already mirror-like on the edges that contact.

What Cobra said is correct.

 

It's not just about polishing, it's the re-profile too.

Knocking down the excess angles edges that move against the rounds reduces force needed to cycle the gun.

Kinda like if you were to try to roll a hexagon shaped ball, as opposed to rolling a circular ball.

 

I beg to differ....hand cycling does help with breakin polished or not. Anyone who is skeptical can try it themselves.

 

most people over polish and most surfaces they polish are not necessary.

 

The recontouring is more important than the polishing. There are thousands of these weapons used by the military without any polishing.

 

I'm not saying not to polish, I also polish but proper recontouring will give you the biggest performance gain.

The polishing is what helps the closed bolt load, as it slips easier. You're always gonna have to push a little, even if you take so much off that you ruin the bolt.

If you propperly polish the right places, it creates a smoother action & trigger pull. One can not argue otherwise.

If one were to sand down the bolt & leave it rough, there would be a rather large power loss.

As for all the military S-12s having nothing at all done... Well... I would assume they don't shoot cheap-ass bird shot too much in the Russian military.

 

My guns with 3 .09375 ports & properly profiled, highly polished bolts run winchester (the lousiest I can find) birdshot like a raped ape & rarely EVER chokes... Even when I shoot it one handed.

It cycles the same shitty load reliably with the drum set to the correct (higher) spring pressure as one would have the drum set for high brass.

The gun with 3 ports @ 3/32 (.0975) is only warranted to shoot federal ammo, & on many guns, they won't properly cycle federal ammo without lightening the drum's spring pressure.

My end result is a gun that shoots with the utmost reliability, but will not cycle weak loads on setting 1, thus proving proper gas pressures.

I can't argue with perfection.

 

As for unnecessary areas, yeah,,, the whole carrier doesn't need to be a mirror & the top of the bolt that has no friction points are unneeded for performance.

 

I "advise to" tune every gun I "advise on"the same as mine & am experiencing the same results as mine.

 

 

 

 

Does anyone have a side by side pic of an untouched factory bolt vs. a re-profiled bolt. I want to re-work my bolt for closed bolt mag insertions, but I don't know how much to take it down... Thanks in advance.

 

 

This picture would be worth 10000000000000000 words!! Please!

 

Diego

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Can just pulling the charging handle over and over polish everything where it needs to be polished? It is is already mirror-like on the edges that contact.

What Cobra said is correct.

 

It's not just about polishing, it's the re-profile too.

Knocking down the excess angles edges that move against the rounds reduces force needed to cycle the gun.

Kinda like if you were to try to roll a hexagon shaped ball, as opposed to rolling a circular ball.

 

I beg to differ....hand cycling does help with breakin polished or not. Anyone who is skeptical can try it themselves.

 

most people over polish and most surfaces they polish are not necessary.

 

The recontouring is more important than the polishing. There are thousands of these weapons used by the military without any polishing.

 

I'm not saying not to polish, I also polish but proper recontouring will give you the biggest performance gain.

The polishing is what helps the closed bolt load, as it slips easier. You're always gonna have to push a little, even if you take so much off that you ruin the bolt.

If you propperly polish the right places, it creates a smoother action & trigger pull. One can not argue otherwise.

If one were to sand down the bolt & leave it rough, there would be a rather large power loss.

As for all the military S-12s having nothing at all done... Well... I would assume they don't shoot cheap-ass bird shot too much in the Russian military.

 

My gun with 3 .09375 ports & a SLIGHTLY profiled highly polished bolt runs winchester (the lousiest I can find) birdshot like a raped ape & rarely EVER chokes... Even when I shoot it one handed.

It cycles the same shitty load reliably with the drum set to the correct (higher) spring pressure as one would have the drum set for high brass.

The gun with 3 ports @ 3/32 (.0975) is only warranted to shoot federal ammo, & on many guns, they won't properly cycle federal ammo without lightening the drum's spring pressure.

My end result is a gun that shoots with the utmost reliability, but will not cycle weak loads on setting 1, thus proving proper gas pressures.

I can't argue with perfection.

 

As for unnecessary areas, yeah,,, the whole carrier doesn't need to be a mirror & the top of the bolt that has no friction points are unneeded for performance.

 

I "advise to" tune every gun I "advise on"the same as mine & am experiencing the same results as mine.

 

 

 

 

Does anyone have a side by side pic of an untouched factory bolt vs. a re-profiled bolt. I want to re-work my bolt for closed bolt mag insertions, but I don't know how much to take it down... Thanks in advance.

 

 

This picture would be worth 10000000000000000 words!! Please!

 

Diego

Scroll up.

There's a whole rippin' dick-load of pictures of bolts.

Take a picture of your bolt for a factory pic.

Next time I tune a gun, I'll try to take a pic before hand.

 

Proper contouring helps more than polishing

 

first cut post-8026-050354600 1284516528_thumb.jpg

 

second cut post-8026-023065000 1284516556_thumb.jpg

 

polish post-8026-023325700 1284516595_thumb.jpg

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That's a lot of metal coming off of there!! So the darkend area gets cut, rounded and blended?

 

IMG_1006bc.jpg

 

Nope. Cutting is done. Only bending and a light polish left.

 

Put your bolt up against the pic's to compare.

 

And yes there is a lot of material removed, It's hard to do this with abrasives.

Edited by saigatechusa

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That's a lot of metal coming off of there!! So the darkend area gets cut, rounded and blended?

 

IMG_1006bc.jpg

 

Nope. Cutting is done. Only bending and a light polish left.

 

Put your bolt up against the pic's to compare.

 

And yes there is a lot of material removed, It's hard to do this with abrasives.

 

Will do, I was looking at one of Cobra's bolts when I posted above, It looks like he takes way more off then what you did!

 

thx Ted

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That's a lot of metal coming off of there!! So the darkend area gets cut, rounded and blended?

 

IMG_1006bc.jpg

 

Nope. Cutting is done. Only bending and a light polish left.

 

Put your bolt up against the pic's to compare.

 

And yes there is a lot of material removed, It's hard to do this with abrasives.

 

Will do, I was looking at one of Cobra's bolts when I posted above, It looks like he takes way more off then what you did!

 

thx Ted

 

I acually remove more.

 

Hard to see but look at the area you highlighted post-8026-049869200 1284574381_thumb.jpg post-8026-092826000 1284574476_thumb.jpg

 

Not dinging anybody here....just info

Edited by saigatechusa
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That's a lot of metal coming off of there!! So the darkend area gets cut, rounded and blended?

 

IMG_1006bc.jpg

 

Nope. Cutting is done. Only bending and a light polish left.

 

Put your bolt up against the pic's to compare.

 

And yes there is a lot of material removed, It's hard to do this with abrasives.

 

Will do, I was looking at one of Cobra's bolts when I posted above, It looks like he takes way more off then what you did!

 

thx Ted

 

I acually remove more.

 

Hard to see but look at the area you highlighted post-8026-049869200 1284574381_thumb.jpg post-8026-092826000 1284574476_thumb.jpg

 

Not dinging anybody here....just info

 

Not trying to split hairs here but...

You say you remove more. That should be explained a little better. As you can see in the photos I've posted, the serial numbers are no longer visible for the most part, on the body of the bolt....but left completely intact on the bolt head. So on mine more was removed, just in a different place.

I do not like to remove quite that much on the shoulder of the bolt body, where right underneath you have the cavity the bolt head rotates in. If you do it gets very thin there. How many bolts have you seen ground, or milled through to this cavity yourself? I have a couple here that were taken too far, which is why I've been so outspoken about people not getting carried away with removing material.

As you know, the critical areas where the most problems arise on unmodded bolts, are the little shoulder where the shaft first widens into the fat part of the bolt (where the shell gets caught when trying to insert a full mag), the median ridge that runs between the to factory flats, and the overall thickness of the body, head, and stationary extractor claw (the areas that cause so much drag on the top shell in the mag when the bolt head has to turn and come back over the shell, under mag spring pressure. Having no sharp corners to increase drag, or thick unpolished areas to make it worse, is the whole idea....just some info for some who seek to understand more about why this mod is done.

 

post-1293-089015800 1284576731_thumb.jpg

 

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I CNC the bolt and have it programed so there's no problem removing too much material.

 

Yes I have seen damaged bolts but can be easially repaired.

 

Do you need any of your bolts repaired?

Edited by saigatechusa

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Pardon me I was pulling a few bolts to take some new pics.

 

I have two that were taken too far and went all the way through...one by me, the other by someone else. I have been using them with no ill effects so far but have thought about getting them fixed if they ever cause any problems. The part that is worn through only really comes in contact with plastic hulls unless I were to use some of the steel cased ammo in there. That would probably cause problems. I think structurally they are safe to use, since the bolt head is locked in by the lugs when exposed to the explosive pressure of the round going off.

 

I'll post some pics of them in a few.

 

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Damn that always takes longer than expected....

 

Ok as requested, some before / after pics of modded / unmodded bolts, and a before / after of a Tapco hammer, which is just as important as, if not more than, the bolt mod for making the gun cycle better with all loads after conversion.

 

Also some pics of a couple that had too much material removed and exposed the bolt head cavity inside.

 

post-1293-088576500 1284582889_thumb.jpg post-1293-082714400 1284582945_thumb.jpg

 

post-1293-038002000 1284583015_thumb.jpg

 

post-1293-074419100 1284583121_thumb.jpg post-1293-031950000 1284583160_thumb.jpg

 

 

post-1293-076238300 1284583071_thumb.jpg

 

Some different ones....in different stages of modification (top two were taken too far).

post-1293-070653800 1284583770_thumb.jpg post-1293-025899400 1284583796_thumb.jpg

 

post-1293-001469500 1284583822_thumb.jpg post-1293-086504400 1284583841_thumb.jpg

 

post-1293-081687200 1284583866_thumb.jpg post-1293-082554700 1284583888_thumb.jpg

 

post-1293-068615500 1284584020_thumb.jpg

 

 

Notice the small hole in this one...

post-1293-010101400 1284584054_thumb.jpg post-1293-090796100 1284584099_thumb.jpg

 

post-1293-054489100 1284584133_thumb.jpg post-1293-026017000 1284584175_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

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