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how do i polish the bolt?


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#151 Jon Wigley

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 05:05 PM

Sorry didn't mean to do that, I ment to say that's a badass jeweled bolt assembly

#152 FiReBReTHa

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:32 AM

I wanted to ask about your thoughts on corrosion resistance after polishing and what you guys have seen in the field.

#153 Caged

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 06:30 PM

I wanted to ask about your thoughts on corrosion resistance after polishing and what you guys have seen in the field.



What corrosion resistance? It's Russian, shoot it!


Seriously though, I've never experienced any corrosion.
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#154 robfromga

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 06:23 PM

Here is mine. I didn't get too crazy, didn't really remove much material. Its the first time I've ever polished anything. I may go back and sand some of the rough spots again and repolish. I used mothers to polish.

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Hit the hammer and trigger also
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Way easier to insert the may and the trigger is less gritty.

#155 eatleadbeotch

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:33 AM

New member/1st post. This thread with all the pics was extremely helpful, thank you all, I only wish I had seen this one before I started polishing. Of course when I got my new S12 a month ago, I couldn’t wait to convert it, which went well but now that I have polished the bolt I am wondering if I took it a little too far…

I have a small chip now showing, immediately to the right of the standard hole on the bottom of the bolt. This appeared the other day after trying out my work with some cheap wal mart low brass with which I still had FTE’s about every 3rd round with my Vplug wide open.

I know my crappy pics can’t tell the true tale but any assistance from here would be greatly appreciated. In looking at the other pics posted on this thread, I feel pretty good about the thickness near the neck of the bolt, both from the side and bottom views, I just hope I didn’t get to thin further up.

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#156 CLXXXVII

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:02 PM

I polished my carrier with my dremel and the abrasive buffs, then finished off with the felt wheels and jewlers rouge. Used just the wheels on my bolt. I didnt need to reprofile my bolt or anything as my weapon runs just fine, and I dont have much trouble loading on a closed bolt, I just like the look

#157 S-12 Pauly

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 08:35 AM

I am wondering if I took it a little too far…

I have a small chip now showing, immediately to the right of the standard hole on the bottom of the bolt. This appeared the other day after trying out my work

I know my crappy pics can’t tell the true tale but any assistance from here would be greatly appreciated. In looking at the other pics posted on this thread, I feel pretty good about the thickness near the neck of the bolt, both from the side and bottom views, I just hope I didn’t get to thin further up.

Got your PM.
From what the pictures show that's not going to be a problem.
Many bolts have what you're calling the "chip" there before they're ever touched.

That's not the part that slides over shells anyhow. That hole's pointing down when you're in battery, but as the extraction cycle begins the bolt rotates & the area where your serial # is extracts over the shells pressing against it.

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#158 eatleadbeotch

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:07 AM

much appreciated Pauly along with all of your & others input on this site. It's great for all of us DIY'ers

now it's on to polishing the slide rails and then i'll check my ports if needed. i don't plan on feeding it a lot of low brass junk anyway, really only wanted to see how well it functioned after my conversion

thanks!
playing with guns all the time beats the hell out of hanging with my wife

#159 5.56

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:38 AM

What do you guys think? First time ever messing with a bolt and carier on an ak platform. Let me know if there is something I could have done better or I did wrong.

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"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?"

Then I said, "Here am I. Send me."

- Isaiah 6:8


#160 5.56

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 01:49 AM

Also what else can I polish to make this thing a monster?

"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?"

Then I said, "Here am I. Send me."

- Isaiah 6:8


#161 drifter_

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 11:59 AM

Any thoughts on using Flitz instead of jeweler's rouge?

#162 5.56

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:26 PM

Any thoughts on using Flitz instead of jeweler's rouge?


I used some stuff from harbor freight and it surprisingly gave it a mirror finish.

"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?"

Then I said, "Here am I. Send me."

- Isaiah 6:8


#163 BOB A. BOOEY

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:25 PM

This can be done by anyone with a Dremel and the proper attachments you can buy at any Home Depot. Initially I was gonna ship mine off to one of these guys who polish the bolt and carrier and FCG but decided to do it myself. The gun ran fine prior to my polishing anything so quite honestly I'm a little skeptical at the opinions of those selling these services about how totally necessary these processes are. They may very well help but the water salesman telling me to put out the fire makes me wary. I did this stuff myself, it was fun and very gratifying. My bolt carrier looks like chrome. I did the whole thing. I grinded only a very small amount off the bolt and that too looks like chrome as does my trigger and rails. I dont know if this helped any but it was fun and cost me exactly $0 with $0 for shipping and no waiting time. Buy a Dremel fellas, it has many uses including this one and its a great investment.

Edited by BOB A. BOOEY, 07 May 2012 - 11:26 PM.


#164 Caged

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:50 PM

Actually, the Dremel polishing kit costs around $20 and the Dremel itself varies in cost depending on model and options. So it DID cost some moolah.

I prefer smooth running weapons, I'm the kind of guy who will polish up a Mosin Nagant if I feel any dragging points in the action. The polish doesn't really do much but achieve an aesthetic quality. The re-profile is the most important part and yes, it helps greatly...
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#165 BOB A. BOOEY

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 11:36 AM

Actually, the Dremel polishing kit costs around $20 and the Dremel itself varies in cost depending on model and options. So it DID cost some moolah.

I prefer smooth running weapons, I'm the kind of guy who will polish up a Mosin Nagant if I feel any dragging points in the action. The polish doesn't really do much but achieve an aesthetic quality. The re-profile is the most important part and yes, it helps greatly...


Actually I didnt buy the Dremel tool for this. I already owned it to polish my watches but doing it yourself will save you money and you can touch it up in the future if the bolt or carrier get scratched.

#166 JTE

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 12:28 PM

Actually, the Dremel polishing kit costs around $20 and the Dremel itself varies in cost depending on model and options. So it DID cost some moolah.

I prefer smooth running weapons, I'm the kind of guy who will polish up a Mosin Nagant if I feel any dragging points in the action. The polish doesn't really do much but achieve an aesthetic quality. The re-profile is the most important part and yes, it helps greatly...


You got it! The polishing is only aesthetic, what we call, "Decals on a Race Car". Like polishing the box car on a train to make it go faster.

Lapping a bolt and the carrier/rails with fine lapping compound will do more good for function than all the time spent on polishing the parts. Mainly because you will fit the parts as they interface with each other.

I will be posting a "How to do this" on my sub forum.

Jack
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#167 S-12 Pauly

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 07:53 PM

*Edited for tact.

This can be done by anyone with a Dremel and the proper attachments you can buy at any Home Depot. Initially I was gonna ship mine off to one of these guys who polish the bolt and carrier and FCG but decided to do it myself. The gun ran fine prior to my polishing anything so quite honestly I'm a little skeptical at the opinions of those selling these services about how totally necessary these processes are.


Just to clarify if you speak about me, I posted my personal 1st procedure long before I went into business. It was for informational purposes to, educate and assist people do their own modifications.
At the time, there were no pictures or methods of process to be found on the net & it was referred to as "grinding the bolt".
I understood the concept so I took pics of how to do a decent mod with some easily attained tools, which resulted in... Meh... A bit of improvement. It was noticeable. Then the post, being something the forum lacked, became a "sticky".
I doubt some could fathom how much stress & annoyance the fateful act of answering the O.P. of this thread has resulted in over the years.

As a vendor on the forum, I have the ability delete/edit any post I have made since this account started, but I chose to leave the procedure up there, because I truly do detest the whole practice & attitude of "You're incapable of doing it yourself, pay me", as I feel that attitude promotes mediocrity in the people. I feel we all really should be able to do stuff on our own, especially maintaining some of the most important tools we own.
That being said, I edited my original how-to post to add an advertizment since I have now greatly refined my processes. GlassBolt has come to age with the input of 5 mechanical engineers, a 40 year gunsmith, myself & leading industry consultants. Currently, it's precision milled & finished with the highest grade consumables available on the industrial market resulting in the most consistent results coupled to the highest level of refinement out there.

My hammers are matched to their carriers according to the shop formula, carriers are properly ramped for a more gradual reset, the bolts are brought to the point of the easiest mag insertion possible on a closed bolt while more importantly, greatly reducing resistance as the body of the bolt rotates with shells pressing against it, then extracts, because it's not like rolling a hexagon & dragging a huge sharp hump over the shells, but rather, every transition is smooth thanks to the best profile possible for optimal resistance reduction while maintaining structural integrity.

But still, as some attempt to discredit my surface conditioning, they neglect to acknowledge my profile is as gradual & transition-free as a bolt can be without weakening it unnecessarily... Posted Image
I really don't get that?
There's pics all over the world wide web of my work. I don't exactly hide it & try to claim pics of my work are trade secrets, They're everywhere.

Proper varied surface conditioning brings GlassBolt to the pinnacle of performance as far as resistance reduction goes. One really does not want a perfect mirror polish on metal to metal work surfaces, as this greatly increases friction as well as greatly diminishes the surface's ability to retain lubrication due to a lack of proper surface conditioning conducive to the capillary action needed fort the retention of lighter weight lubricants..
A high polish on steel to plastic shotgun hull working areas is desirable though, because that combination actually does reduce resistance.Especially since hulls have ribs running down their length.

Then, the Jeweling on the underside does look sharp, but it's purely functional.
I end up making the underside of the carrier too smooth when ramping & going for the smoothest, sharp transition-free surface, so I score the undersides with jeweling as surface conditioning so it can hold thinner lubricant, otherwise the lower viscous lubes would bead up like water on a freshly waxed car, & just run off with gravity & inertia.

Here's the difference in how thin, spray on lubricant lays on a highly polished area compared to the area I jewel to provide surface conditioning conducive to needed capillary action on this random customer supplied photo;

Posted Image

The highly polished areas pictured have no contact with steel as the weapon is fired. The working surface retains & spreads even this low viscous lube very well. The hammer's face, rail guides, bolt stem & axis pins also share a nicely finished surface conducive to capillary action.
That being said, I recommend molly-grease for all steel to steel shear (sliding) work surfaces.
Moly grease is great.

Now, I'll not debate the above.
A few out there continually attempt to spread the myth that surface texture is irrelevant. Primarily one gent who is not a vendor here, but attempts to snake work from others by way of his sidekick jumping into threads & plugging the heck out of him, with inaccurate information. He yells about how profile is so important, while his own pics show GlassBolt has a more efficient profile when it comes to the reduction of resistance in the extraction cycle.

One simply cannot debate the validity of proper surface texture having a positive effect in relation to varied working surfaces be it surfaces with micro reservoirs for some functions or very smooth for others.

I see it as futile to argue proven facts. I look at the 90-9-1 internet participation inequality studies which show, 1% of us generate content & 9% of us contribute to content provided, while 90% of the people just sit back & scoff at some of the psudeointellectualism deriving from "whatever" motives of some of the 10% trying to present opinions as fact although it contradicts studied, tested & established reality.
If someone wants to compete, compete fairly. Shoot straight if confident. We cannot change fact to suit our own desires for an easier modification. It's unethical & hurts the credibility of all.

GlassBolt's come a long way since the first one I hacked out with a dremel in the earliest "how-to" post on this thread, so, if I'm giving away some of my business (money) out of altruism, by letting a post stand which gives a few pointers to DIY'res, editing the post to offer my service isn't exactly devious.
Heck, half of them who try first, end up sending it to me anyhow.

"Bob-A", you said your weapon was running fine before your mod & you didn't notice much improvment...

Please, let's see everything... Shoot the pics with a good camera so we can see it up close. There's likely reasons you didn't see much improvement.
To say you doubt improvement is to be had, when you most certainly didn't come anywhere near GlassBolt System is disingenuous at the least.

I shoot pics of every piece that's been worked on previously that I re-work into GlassBolt, just in case someone wishes to try to knock GlassBolt out of spite, greed, etc.... Unfortunately, that happens far too often, which in part is why I'm rarely around the forums any longer.
I know very well where Glassbolt stands. It takes a lot of work & time, even with the best industrial processes & consumables out there. Time that nobody wants to take. But my name's on it, so I do.
That's my niche, & I developed processes do it on a large/mass scale semi-profitably. (so long as I work 16 hours a day, 6-7 days a week.)

One can read this particular forum all day & see people who have to overgass their guns to run well.
They think there's something fundamentally different gun to gun. However, they can all be brought to the same point with proper engineering, refinement & tuning..
Then there's countless independent reviews of GlassBolt out there.
One professional researcher (scientist) had me do 3 sets.
With properly sized unobstructed ports (not overgassed in the slightest) & GlassBolt, he reported 3" magnum slugs on V-plug setting 1 ejecting 6' to the 2oclock, then various rounds down the other settings, with #5 properly ejecting all the weakest cheapo rounds except for a couple types that stated on the box clearly; "ONLY FOR BREAK-ACTION &N PUMP GUNS".

Now if 3" magnum slugs are ejecting well on setting 1 of a v-plug, it stands to reason that adding any additional gas is unneeded wear, if the weapon is built, balanced, & tuned correctly, and the owner wants a complete weapon which will remain durable if the high powered loads are at some point in the future required for survival.
I see privately held firearms as our country's last line of defense. They're the people's militia's arsenal, so a longer service life with practical loads is important to me in a combat shotgun.
The goal is to make it be able to be choked down for the really heavy stuff, and still be able to run the very light ammo reliably as well.

While I have their parts, I encourage people to do a light buff on their carrier rails (not a mirror finish, just use Dremil Abrasive Buffs), & polish up the underside of the barrel hood & chamber (slightly in chamber), then slightly smooth/debur the sharp edge of the extractor slot, Then when they get the parts back, run the carrier on the rails without the bolt or hammer in there so they can find & address (by hand) any spots where the rails drag in the carrier rail embutments.
Then just in case the gas block is not far enough back, or the op-rod is set short, just buy a CSS Performance Puck, as the small nipple which increases length of stroke takes up for gas block/oprod issues, as well as decreases stress on the carrier, as the earlier contact of the puck to the op-rod provides for less violent Initial contact, therefore will stress the carrier less. Also make sure the gas block isn't canted, as this will misaligned the carrier jamming it slightly & robbing, sometimes tremendous power from the cycle.

If one builds, balances & tunes a gun right, they don't have to gas the heck out of it for reliability, therefore they can retain long term durability.

They may very well help but the water salesman telling me to put out the fire makes me wary. I did this stuff myself, it was fun and very gratifying. My bolt carrier looks like chrome. I did the whole thing. I grinded only a very small amount off the bolt and that too looks like chrome as does my trigger and rails. I dont know if this helped any but it was fun and cost me exactly $0 with $0 for shipping and no waiting time. Buy a Dremel fellas, it has many uses including this one and its a great investment.

Water salesman? For understanding how the weapons work & that many are not able to do the mods properly, therefore there was a market?
If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take you to do what you did?
Got pics?
If one is talented & replicated GlassBolt System with a dremel, it would be close to 12 hours & that's if they had by an act of the Lord almighty, just happened upon the perfect process in the right order & instinctively knew the custom precision measuring equipment needed to maintain consistancy being as these bolts/carriers differ greatly in their proportions from unit to unit. That's why a CNC program will not deliver consistent wall thickness to guarantee bolt strength on every unit, because at times, even the cavity in the bolt's body differs in size slightly unit to unit

That being said, I would be especially interested in seeing anybody come close to IceRack's perfection with a dremel.
I have only seen one instance of anybody, (a hobbyist with fabrication experience), come close, and he did not use a dremil.
People who try to IceRack with a dremel usually make a really big mess for me, then send it, at which point I end up cursing their name while wishing they'd just had me do it in the first place, because it's so wavy & pitted that it's twice the work for me than if they'd never touched it to begin with. (yet i still charge the same)
Some out there Jewel to cover up imperfections, tool marks & pitting. This is an old trick to save time & has been used forever. I actually back-peddle & mess-up my perfect finish when I jewel the side.

But seriously, anybody... This is an open call & I encourage all to participate If they think they can do better or match. Please, step in the ring & back it up with evidence, engineering & sound rationale behind the method rather than just talking.

Please use a decent camera up close & don't use blurry photos to hide tool marks & pits..
Here, I'll start & even use pics from old, outdated, and some of my earliest processes, because I've not done any photo-shoots in about 6 months, so this is before all chargers began to be milled;
I'll shoot some of the current standard as I complete the next few runs.



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In short, I hardily welcome anybody to do their own.
What's their time worth, do they want the proven and most refined system out there, or do they want to spend a weekend grinding & getting dirty?, it's a matter of personal preference.
Some of us like that, some others don't. (However, I no longer offer repairs, as they take me far too long, so please, don't go too far, mess up, then ask me to fix it. Others out there may have the time, but I do not.)

For example, I recently purchased a Richards Microfit Wildcat style stock for my 1917, Winchester manufactured, Eddystone-style Enfield chambered in 30-06.
The rifle is going to look quite similar to this when done;

Posted Image

Now, I could have made one on my mill, but to spend a couple hundred & have it delivered as I spent the rare days I take off, drinking Belvedere's fine Polish Vodka on a 26' Monterey on the Columbia river was more appealing to me.
I guess it's just a matter of preference.
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#168 Caged

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 08:32 PM

Shit my polish job is a hundred times better than Pauly's...










No, not really, I can't back that up...
I am now pulling back the thing that you pull back before you fire the gun...

#169 YOT

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:07 PM

Shit my polish job is a hundred times better than Pauly's...










No, not really, I can't back that up...


Mine, too.













Niether can I.Posted Image

"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

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#170 telero

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 12:40 AM

I just bought my S-12 and have been reading a lot. For me, I think the best way to polish the bolt will be to talk to Pauly. He's fairly local, so that is a plus for me as well.

#171 dustindu4

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 07:32 AM

Pauly has been MIA for over 2 weeks now. Make sure you talk to him before you send in anything

#172 filthygovemploye

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:39 PM

oh fork, now look what you guys have done!!!

#173 DaveinCT

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 11:29 PM

My first go at my bolt, need more polishing compund and I'l give it some more..Attached File  Saiga12benchbolt.jpg   111.71KB   6 downloads

#174 Sohei

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:22 AM

Any thoughts on adding a metal treatment coating to a polished bolt such as Teflon, KG Gun Kote, or CeraKote? Some additional lubricity would be the main intent as well as some wear and corrosion resistance.


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#175 onelonehorseman

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 10:20 AM

Does anyone know what the present backlog is on getting their parts completed by Pauly's Stealin?  I sent my Saiga 12 parts to Pauly's on Sept 30 and still have not heard anything.  I have sent a couple of e-mails and gotten no response.   ......starting to get a little concerned. 



#176 Heavy D

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:52 PM

I haven't seen anything that he has posted in a long time.  I have tried to contact him to see about sending my parts in but the lack of response has me thinking about going a different route.



#177 Capt Nemo

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:35 AM

I'll agree with the above, don't get wild with metal removal!!!  Those parts were built that way for a reason!  Take too much off and you could get a weapon that will either break, or break you.

 

With my carrier and hammer face, I only stoned them down to remove the original machining marks/finish, and the scratch along the bottom.  I may have done it the hard way using my 3/8 x 3/8 Arkansas stick and flat stone.  In the pics, I could do a little more yet, as I haven't fully gone to the true bottom of the machine marks.  But the action with this little amount of material removal was noticeably smoother.  The hammer streak is actually more polished than the rest.

 

Hammer face (area by spring was not polished)

http://i1336.photobu...zpsd011adb9.jpg

 

Carrier (actual finish is a hazy mirror with some machine marks still present at the rear)

http://i1336.photobu...zps65697ef6.jpg

 

Arkansas stones will polish as they cut/sharpen.  I think it's a much safer way to do it as you really don't need to take that much off with the stones to get a polished finish.  If you can, try to locate all the stones in a military armorer's tool box.  Well worth the investment!



#178 Quinn

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 01:58 PM

Is Pauly's Steeling still doing the bolt work? No response to any e-mails or PMs, so it looks like I will be doing this on my own too.

Well I see that he did post on Feb 14th and it looks like maybe he is not taking on any new work until he clears his backlog.

So I will still probably end up doing this on my own.

Edited by Quinn, 23 February 2013 - 02:00 PM.


#179 JohnnyE

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 02:20 PM

Pauly is still doing his thing. He is backed up and last week announced here that he has put a moratorium on accepting new work for, IIRC, a month, so he can get caught up. Search for his post.



#180 Heavy D

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 02:05 AM

Is Pauly's Steeling still doing the bolt work? No response to any e-mails or PMs, so it looks like I will be doing this on my own too.

Well I see that he did post on Feb 14th and it looks like maybe he is not taking on any new work until he clears his backlog.

So I will still probably end up doing this on my own.

 

 

Pauly is still doing his thing. He is backed up and last week announced here that he has put a moratorium on accepting new work for, IIRC, a month, so he can get caught up. Search for his post.

He stopped taking new work in on the 17th.  He will post up once he starts accepting orders again.






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