jimdigriz 580 Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 I've got only about 100 rounds for my .223. I need to figure out what its regular diet will be so I can stock up a bit. I plan to get some Hornady TAP or whatever is generally considered to be the best self-defense ammo, but I can only get a small amount of that. I need a training ammo that can also double as a good BG-killer if necessary. What kind of .223 ammo would be the best value for these purposes? Do any of the steel-cased selections have decent terminal performance? Maybe the HPs? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 (edited) If you get good US made M193 (55 grain, they fragment down to about 2500 FPS and don't need hollow points. I have Centurion and I believe they use Military projectiles. I know if I shoot the mud bank on the opposite side om my creek, it makes a LARGE hole. It is ($360/1,000). Wolf FMJ is great for plinking, though. If you are getting Russian, they use a much thicker jacket, and you should use the Wolf or Barnaul HP. They blow up pretty well, too. Go to ammo oracle, and you will be surprised about how effective US M193 is under 200 yards! Edited February 21, 2010 by imarangemaster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 I've got only about 100 rounds for my .223. I need to figure out what its regular diet will be so I can stock up a bit. I plan to get some Hornady TAP or whatever is generally considered to be the best self-defense ammo, but I can only get a small amount of that. I need a training ammo that can also double as a good BG-killer if necessary. What kind of .223 ammo would be the best value for these purposes? Do any of the steel-cased selections have decent terminal performance? Maybe the HPs? Thanks. Also consider the cases - reloadable brass cases can add value, even if you don't reload right now (reloading is a cookbook exercise - for anyone who doesn't reload now, don't let it scare you). And you can always sell the once-fired cases, if you decide not to reload. For those reasons, I would recommend something with Boxer primed brass cases (unless the steel-cased throw-away stuff gets stupidly cheap, like it used to be). For a baseline cost, just check Walmart (they've got commercial .223 back on the shelves in my area). Here's a link that might be helpful: http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=3&f=16 Good luck! And remember to invest in precious metals (lead & brass ;>). I've still got some Indonesian 5.56 NATO that I picked up back in the '90s for less than $120 for 800+ rounds, including the can - wish I had bought more! ;>) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dobravery 49 Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I've got only about 100 rounds for my .223. I need to figure out what its regular diet will be so I can stock up a bit. I plan to get some Hornady TAP or whatever is generally considered to be the best self-defense ammo, but I can only get a small amount of that. I need a training ammo that can also double as a good BG-killer if necessary. What kind of .223 ammo would be the best value for these purposes? Do any of the steel-cased selections have decent terminal performance? Maybe the HPs? Thanks. I can't speak for terminal effects, but my 20" unconverted made a 10 shot group a hair over 2moa at 50yds using Silver Bear 62grn HP. Basically all rounds touched a 1"box at 50yds. Just in case you go the steel case route. . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seanie 6 Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I'm a fan of how cheap, reliable, and decently accurate Brown Bear is. I find it around here for anywhere from $120-150/500. It seems a little cleaner than Wolf, and a little more accurate too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted February 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Just in case you go the steel case route. . . Since I don't reload, steel case is the only way, other than specialty ammo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CTfam 2 Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 I buy Wolf military classic by the case. Just FMJs for now. I have heard people say it is trash and underpowered but the prices on that TAP is just crazy. Does HP rifle ammo make that much of a difference? I can pick up the same Wolf ammo with hollow points for about the same price. Is overpenetration the concern with FMJs? I don't use my rifles for home defense so over penetration is not an issue. If it's a SHTF situation I wouldn't worry about it either. Just wondering what's wrong with FMJs for self defense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EreadM 0 Posted March 6, 2010 Report Share Posted March 6, 2010 Whats better Brown Bear or Silver, or is there much of a difference? I've never used either, I just use the walmart stuff for target shooting, but i've noticed the B & S Bear ammo is pretty cheap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 I think Barnaul Silver and Brown Bear are a little more accurate and are definitely cleaner burning than Wolf. I shot under 2 MOA with Silver bear 62 grain HP in a Saiga and M4gery. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
christcorp 26 Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Cabelas has Tula (Wolf) on sale for $4.49 a box of 20. And if you order before March 9th, they have FREE SHIPPING. (If you buy $150 or more of merchandise). Which is a big deal because of the weight. I just ordered, and received 3 days later, 34 boxes of Tula 55 grain .223. Total price was $152.66 for 680 rounds. Free shipping. You can't find better than that. As for self defense, I figure that a man is about the same size and weight as a deer. I have a couple of boxes of Fiocchi Soft Points that I keep in the rifle. A .223 rifle, or any rifle, will most likely be your very last weapon to pull out after a pistol or shotgun. There's no reason to go Rambo and buy fancy military type ammunition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evildog 20 Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 I've got some 200rds of american tactical xm193 223 i'll sell ya. $78.00 plus ship. If interested pm me. It's reloadable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted March 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 A .223 rifle, or any rifle, will most likely be your very last weapon to pull out after a pistol or shotgun. There's no reason to go Rambo and buy fancy military type ammunition. Actually, a rifle will be my first grab if in my house. I need a lot of high value ammo, but I also need to get some of the best self-defense stuff. Not sure what that is yet, as far as .223 goes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
christcorp 26 Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Again, if I want my .223 for defensive purposes in my house or property, then I will use soft points. IMHO, .223 is extremely light and small. Trying to get it to do anything with something other than FMJ is asking a lot. FMJ can definitely over penetrate. HP can fragment. (Some like this, but it shouldn't be a random act, but controlled). Soft point will so what soft points are suppose to do. Expand, mushroom, and stay inside. But here's a really good article with reports. Check it out. Go to the section on .223. http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.223 And can I assume that you don't have a pistol or shotgun that you can use for self defense purposes? I only ask, because while a lot of people have mini-14, saiga, and other carbines for defensive purposes, those people don't consider the carbine for their normal day to day protective uses. But definitely it's better than not having something to defend with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted March 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 And can I assume that you don't have a pistol or shotgun that you can use for self defense purposes? I only ask, because while a lot of people have mini-14, saiga, and other carbines for defensive purposes, those people don't consider the carbine for their normal day to day protective uses. But definitely it's better than not having something to defend with. I had a pump action shotgun, but sold it because it has a low rate of fire and low capacity. Not sufficient for more extreme home defense scenarios. I don't consider Saiga 12s or other semi-auto shotguns reliable enough. I have pistols at various places in the house, to reach for if I can't get to my rifles in time. But pistols lack power and capacity, and it is difficult to be as accurate with them as with rifles. And, in my house, having to make a very long shot (for a pistol) is not unlikely. So that leaves my Saiga rifles. Very reliable, lots of power and capacity, and very easy to hit the target with. Perfect. And there is only one probable vector of fire that could result in a bullet exiting the house toward a neighbor. I'm going to put a large steel plate on the interior wall of the garage to catch any potential bullets flying in that direction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
christcorp 26 Posted March 7, 2010 Report Share Posted March 7, 2010 Sounds like a pretty good plan. I would still look at soft point rounds for self defense. In my opinion, if they are good enough for deer, they're definitely good enough for a person which is close to the same size. I've never been one for a frangible type bullet in a caliber as small as a 22. And you can get SP ammo for under $10 a box. That's sort of my setup. While my rifle isn't my 1st go to gun, I have tons of FMJ for plinking, and I have between 60-100 rounds of Soft Point ammo for defensive purposes. Again, I do a lot of hunting and I know what soft points do to animals. Just makes sense to me that at under 20 yards, (Pushing the limit on home defense), a soft point would do wonders on a bad guy. And as long as you don't miss, it's definitely going to stay inside of them and do a great job. Again, just my opinion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Hard to argue with M193 if you are looking for a really good all around ammo. If I was going to stock up on ammo and couldn't afford $1 a shot ammo then M193 with just a bit of M855 would be it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evildog 20 Posted March 8, 2010 Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 All this talk of sp ammo for the bad guy doing the most damage is fine but, if your worried about fmj or steel core ammo going through then buy hollow points for the unvested bad guy. Meaning a decent caliber hand gun with jacketed hollow points will take care of the problem with limited if any straight through shots happening. But if the bad guy is the gov come to knock knock on your door to say take your guns or relocate you for your own good then no the sp and hollow points ain't going to get it done. You may want to keep some M855 or XM193 handy in a rifle for such occasion. Just saying, home defense of normal bad guy 12ga w/00 buck. Government bad guy something nastier. Just my two cents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted March 10, 2010 Report Share Posted March 10, 2010 In my 4 mag pouch, I have 3 Black mags with Brown Bear 62gr HP. I have 1 OD Green mag FMJ. Will replace that ammo with M855 eventually. Green tip in Green mag. Color coordination is key. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fett 0 Posted April 6, 2010 Report Share Posted April 6, 2010 In my 4 mag pouch, I have 3 Black mags with Brown Bear 62gr HP. I have 1 OD Green mag FMJ. Will replace that ammo with M855 eventually. Green tip in Green mag. Color coordination is key. I'm sure your Bad guys will appriciate the effort you put forth not to clash! (Although the green will clash with the red should you hit your bad guy) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cfortune 1 Posted April 6, 2010 Report Share Posted April 6, 2010 I picked up two cases of Brown Bear 62GR HP's for $4.30 a box (20 rnds) from cheaperthandirt.com. I shot 180 rounds on Sunday and had no problems. Was a bit worried going out on a limb like that because I had never shot the stuff. I'm satisfied though. They also sent this out today: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/emails/RussianAmmo.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TacSat 90 Posted April 7, 2010 Report Share Posted April 7, 2010 just ran across this. http://www.centerfiresystems.com/ 239 per 1000 delivered. that is for 223 or X39 or a mixed case. wolf. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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