Top Notch 0 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) I am duracoating for my first time and read all the instructions but am having issues with the finish after it has cured for 5 plus hours. I am spraying "Tactical Extreme Grey" on the gun. When I spray it on it looks flawless, after curing for a few hours it looks flawless but after 5 plus hours I notice several areas on the reciever start to look a "darker" grey than the rest of the gun. It is mainly on the side of the receiver with the scope mount rail that I am seeing this. I am not sure if it normal when it is curing or if I need to do something different to correct the problem. Below is a picture of the issue (sorry for the quality)...This difference in color is only really visible from an angle...it looks good when you are looking straight down at it... Below are the steps that I did for the duracoat process: 1. Degreased the firearm 2. Roughed up the surface with 600 grit sandpaper 3. Blew off gun with compressed air 4. Sprayed several coats of duracoat with proper mixture of hardner 5. Allowed to cure for 24 hours Edited February 22, 2010 by Top Notch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
madmax4x4 68 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 If you just roughed up the surface with 600 grit sandpaper old finish dye my be bleeding threw. That or the coats or to thick at once in the dark spots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigcec1 72 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 it almost looks like its shinny it may just be me or the pic you might have put to much hardener or or not mixed it well ive had it come out shinny on one side of a project before and thats what the deal was with the hardener Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AZ Gun Nut 8 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) I am not an expert, but those areas are typically where factory oil hangs out. I degreased mine before and after sandblasting and some oil still seeped out. I degreased it a couple of more times and put it in the oven for a while, just to make sure. Also, I used DuraPhos as an undercoat to assure better adhesion. Prep is 95% of firearm refinishing. Edited February 22, 2010 by Gun Nut Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Top Notch 0 Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the advice...I was thinking maybe I sprayed too much or too little on that area to have it come out different or the hardner ratio was off on my 2nd batch...Not sure if I should rough up those areas and spray or just spray...either way I will shoot the entire gun to ensure same finish..... Edited February 22, 2010 by Top Notch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Top Notch 0 Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 (edited) Thanks for letting my know about the factory oil...that sounds very possible.....I prolly did not degrease enough around those areas...... Edited February 22, 2010 by Top Notch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Yes, that discoloration near grooves and channels such as the shafts of rivets is a tell tale sign of lingering grease. I had the same issue when I refinished a gun as well. By chance, did you degrease with brake cleaner? That stuff is notorious for leaving a residue. Also from the factory there is lingering grease as previously stated. After sanding you should back or heat the gun for a while, maybe an hour or two or three, to make all the grease seep out. Can't hurt to do it twice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
clifton 354 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Yep the OLL,,, Black Gold Texas T ...stripper and do her again... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeere7296 1 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Yes, that discoloration near grooves and channels such as the shafts of rivets is a tell tale sign of lingering grease. I had the same issue when I refinished a gun as well. By chance, did you degrease with brake cleaner? That stuff is notorious for leaving a residue. Also from the factory there is lingering grease as previously stated. After sanding you should back or heat the gun for a while, maybe an hour or two or three, to make all the grease seep out. Can't hurt to do it twice. This is exactly what is going on. I duracoated mine a few months back. I used brake cleaner also. The brake cleaner would get into the cracks and crevaces of the gun, even after I blew it off repeatedly with compressed air, cleaner still would run out. I had to end up stripping it off and re-painting it. This time use something that dries quickly and doesn't leave a residue. I just sanded it down the second time and didn't use anything else, just blew it off and painted. Turned out fine...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Top Notch 0 Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Thanks for the advice....I did use brake cleaner and it shows to not leave a residue and even says it on the bottle....I called duracoat this morning and they were not much help so I decided to degrease again with a different degreaser and lightly sanded and sprayed it again....hopefully it will be fine this time....thanks again for helping me out....this forum rocks.....glad I joined... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
3ac6ucb 24 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 I am not an expert, but those areas are typically where factory oil hangs out. I degreased mine before and after sandblasting and some oil still seeped out. I degreased it a couple of more times and put it in the oven for a while, just to make sure. Also, I used DuraPhos as an undercoat to assure better adhesion. Prep is 95% of firearm refinishing. Yep. Parkerizing or K-Phos makes a great surface for Duracoat to stick to. Even if you're not going to park the gun before coating, I'd recommend degreasing it twice: once before grit blasting and then again afterwards. If you have the right protective equipment, nothing beats tricholorethylene as a degreaser. Oil-free acetone is pretty good too and a bit less toxic. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDeere7296 1 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 Thanks for the advice....I did use brake cleaner and it shows to not leave a residue and even says it on the bottle....I called duracoat this morning and they were not much help so I decided to degrease again with a different degreaser and lightly sanded and sprayed it again....hopefully it will be fine this time....thanks again for helping me out....this forum rocks.....glad I joined... Try looking into Cerakote next time to finish a firearm, I used duracoat on my S12 but went with Cerakote on my SKS. It went on much smoother and easier than the duracoat. Cerakote isn't a paint, it's more of a finish that bonds to the metal. I seems to be much harder than the duracoat......just my .02 anyway. Hope this second time works out for you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rockmup 12 Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I make a lot of money by being good at this so you can take it for what its worth to you. That looks more like a poor sanding job than oil. The finish on Saigas is a very, very bad base for any coating. Brake cleaner sucks. Wash in Hot soapy (dawn) water and then blow dry with air. You can bake it if you want but you MUST wipe it down with MEK or their reducer. Nothing else Do not spray if the metal is warm from the oven. It will fail, unlike gunkote and Cerakote. you do not need to Park first. Blast it to bare metal and your good to go. If your prep is done right you shouldn't have any issues. If your spraying plastics then you can use Durafill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Top Notch 0 Posted February 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Thanks rockmup for your input...Early today I decided to take the gun back down to bare metal and start over.....I removed everything back to the metal....degreased 3 times....sanded by hand.....blew it off with air.....and sprayed it....This time it is Tactical OD Green since I did not have enough Tactical Extreme Grey to complete the gun....It is hanging and curing as we speak and I am keeping my fingers crossed.....so far it looks awesome but only time will tell.....thanks again to all for the help....I should have joined this forum a long time ago.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akastormi 617 Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Top Notch, I responded to your E-mail. Now that I see the pics. Definitely lingering oils. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 heating inbetween degreasings will often drive out a ton of hidden oil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Top Notch 0 Posted February 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 It has been 24 hours and the duracoat looks great....The issue was oil that was not fully removed coming out from the scope rail mount and running down the receiver....I learned so much from this that I am good to go I think for the next gun.....Thanks to all for your input.....I should have it put together by the end of the week and will post pics.....For those that plan on duracoating for the first time I suggest to do it.....It is not hard but you must degrease everything....I would suggest that when you think it is degreased to go ahead and hit it 2 more times to be sure.....nothing sucks worse than spraying your duracoat and seeing crappy results....I ended up having to waste time and money becasue I was not aware of the oil behind the scope rail....thanks guys again... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
boatbod 2 Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I had exactly the same problem in the same areas when I did my S12 and was kicking myself around the shop. As luck would have it, the paint used was tolerant to oil and slightly porous, so I wiped the whole gun down with RemOil and that evened up the finish quite nicely. The same technique would probably not work with Duracoat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rockmup 12 Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Thanks rockmup for your input...Early today I decided to take the gun back down to bare metal and start over.....I removed everything back to the metal....degreased 3 times....sanded by hand.....blew it off with air.....and sprayed it....This time it is Tactical OD Green since I did not have enough Tactical Extreme Grey to complete the gun....It is hanging and curing as we speak and I am keeping my fingers crossed.....so far it looks awesome but only time will tell.....thanks again to all for the help....I should have joined this forum a long time ago.... I didn't see the seepage on the sight mount. I'll blame that on my iphone or old eyes. lol Sounds like you got it worked out. Good for you, so where are the new pics ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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