NOOB to ARs. Thinking of getting one

[Arik 565]

Trying to roundout my firearms collection with an AR. Problem is I know nothing about them aside from shooting one years ago.

 

Looking for some basic knowledge.

I'm thinking of getting one in 308 with an 18-24in barrel. My understanding is that I can always slap on a 223 upper. Price range a $1000 give or take

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Are they all they same, aside from caliber?

 

Why are some lowers dirt cheap ($150) and others expansive($500 and up)? Assuming whe are comparing stripped to stripped or complete to complete

 

Can any lower fit any upper? Say a 223 lower and a 308 upper or a x39?

 

Can any aftermarket parts fit any AR? (sights, rails, stocks...)

 

On the 308. is there a big differance between the 18, 20, 22, 24in barrels as far as long range accuracy? Or is an 18in enough for targets out to 800 yards and out?

 

Are they realy that bad in the reliability department?

 

Are Century made ARs just as shitty as their AKs?

 

This is all I can think of right now. Will prolly have more questions later

[thehopping1 105]

I think a 308 version is an AR-10 and will not work with 223 uppers because of the mag well. Also the buffer tubes come in two sizes so make sure you get the correct one for what ever stock you want(and use the right recoil spring) and you should be good. And like most everything these days, you get what you pay for and Century sucks, especially in a firearm that needs TLC to run right. There is quite a few calibers to choose from that will fit a regular AR lower, I just got a 6.5 Grendel upper and I am waiting on my polymer lower. Check out AR15.com, theirs some ass wipes over there, but a whole lot of knowledge too.

[bigcec1 72]

Yep pretty much what he said once you get to a certin lenght on your bullet you move to the ar-10 platform the magwells are bigger the pivit pin locations are differnt as far as cost of lowers a lot has to do with how it was made extruded or just milled some are beefier in some areas and who's names on it as far as complete lowers same deal some people like to use match triggers in there lowers or something snazzy.but as far as the ar-15 goes I have an assort ment of calibers built a 5.45x39 monday infact but I can take any ar-15 upper and put it on any of my lowers there like leggo,s I have a few .223 one 223 wssm upper a 450 upper the 5.45x39 full rifle and a 243 had a 6.5 upper hell they even make a p90 kit upper uses the same mags as the p90 goes right on top of the barrel hehe but yeah ar-15 forum has a lot of info and plenty of places to find good stuff last lower I got was a striped one from peachstateguns

[shaneman153a 39]

Trying to roundout my firearms collection with an AR. Problem is I know nothing about them aside from shooting one years ago.

 

Looking for some basic knowledge.

I'm thinking of getting one in 308 with an 18-24in barrel. My understanding is that I can always slap on a 223 upper. Price range a $1000 give or take

 

I think with the AR-15 lower you are limited to .223, 5.45x39, .223 WSSM, .243 WSSM, .25 WSSM, .30 OSSM, 7.62x39, 6.5, 6.8, pretty much anything with a max OAL of 2.260. if you want .308 win or .243 you have to step up to an AR-10.

 

Are they all they same, aside from caliber?

 

Kind of, some will have different bolt faces or ejection ports cut differently.

 

Why are some lowers dirt cheap ($150) and others expansive($500 and up)? Assuming whe are comparing stripped to stripped or complete to complete

 

You get what you pay for. But keep in mind there is a whole lot of hype with the AR community. With a milspec lower and a good lower parts kit you should be fine.

 

Can any lower fit any upper? Say a 223 lower and a 308 upper or a x39?

 

No.

 

Can any aftermarket parts fit any AR? (sights, rails, stocks...)

 

There are some parts that don't always interchange, for example a commercial vs. milspec stock. There is a difference.

 

On the 308. is there a big differance between the 18, 20, 22, 24in barrels as far as long range accuracy? Or is an 18in enough for targets out to 800 yards and out?

 

You may be pushing it at 800 with a 18" .308. Should be plenty accurate, but the bullet will most likely drop below supersonic speeds, depending on environmental conditions. I'm not sure what happens once the bullet is transonic, I think the world comes to an end. With a 20" bbl and a 155gr projectile in .308 it should carry to 1000.

 

Are they realy that bad in the reliability department?

 

You get what you pay for. I only have a RRA in .223 and have had no problems. AR guys say keep the bolt lubed and it won't fail. I ran the RRA 350 rounds dry with no failures. However, with a Colt M4, desert conditions, I would have failures after 60-80 rounds. That gun was beat to shit though.

 

Are Century made ARs just as shitty as their AKs?

 

Dunno, probably.

 

This is all I can think of right now. Will prolly have more questions later

 

I think you can get into a DPMS AR-10 for under a grand. A buddy of ine has one and loves it. I've also heard good things about Rock River LAR-8's.

 

ETA - Quick search on gunbroker, looks like the LAR-8's are running about $1200-1300 and there is a DPMS 24" AR10 for $1020.

 

Good luck!

Edited February 25, 2010 by shaneman153a

[superA 289]

Check out the AR15.com thread on "what part's break in a carbine course". Lot's of great info in there about how to keep your rile up and running when exposed to hard use as well as what brands of AR tend to work better than others. You will probably want a 1 in 7 twist so you can be sure and use the 70 grain and up bullets reliably. Run it wet and have fun.

[gtnichols 51]

I have been thinking about one too,..

[Vultite 57]

well for .308 I dunno, I would go with a FAL or just go bolt action. I'm no fan of .308 AR's, just a personal preference...they are damn loud too

[Arik 565]

Well I wanted the 308 because its so versatile. Cheap(er), most common full cartridge and will kill pretty much everything from paper to 500lbs animals.

 

superA....All Ive been seing is 1 in 10 twist. Is that bad? What kind off ammo goes in a 1 in 10 twist?

 

I realy like the 308s but I'm not counting out the 5.56 eighter,

A few more questions..

 

 

Whats a forward assist for? And do I need it?

 

Now that superA has mentioned twist. What twist does a 556 barrel need in order to take any grain ammo?

 

Edited February 26, 2010 by Arik

[getitat 609]

Hello

Check out this site: www.762SASS.com for AR10 components. I would go with that or the RRA LAR-8.

You can build up an AR10 pretty much how you want, barrel length, colors, etc. while the RRA's are not produced that fast, you'd likely have to wait a while to get one custom built.

Not much on them that's compatible with the smaller AR's, but they are a very lethal long range firearm.

 

guido

[superA 289]

Well I wanted the 308 because its so versatile. Cheap(er), most common full cartridge and will kill pretty much everything from paper to 500lbs animals.

 

superA....All Ive been seing is 1 in 10 twist. Is that bad? What kind off ammo goes in a 1 in 10 twist?

 

I realy like the 308s but I'm not counting out the 5.56 eighter,

A few more questions..

 

 

Whats a forward assist for? And do I need it?

 

Now that superA has mentioned twist. What twist does a 556 barrel need in order to take any grain ammo?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I was referring to the 556 with the 1 in 7 twist, that will handle anything that you can fit in a mag and shoot the 55 grain bullets accurately as well. The forward assist helps ensure that the bolt is fully closed, I wouldn't think that you "need" it. If you are wanting this for hunting anything decent sized, like bigger than whitetails, then I would say .308 for sure. For the same price as an AR-10 though you could have the AR-15 and another upper for it for big game, or the AR-15 and a decent bolt action .308.

[shaneman153a 39]

Well I wanted the 308 because its so versatile. Cheap(er), most common full cartridge and will kill pretty much everything from paper to 500lbs animals.

 

superA....All Ive been seing is 1 in 10 twist. Is that bad? What kind off ammo goes in a 1 in 10 twist?

 

I realy like the 308s but I'm not counting out the 5.56 eighter,

A few more questions..

 

 

Whats a forward assist for? And do I need it?

 

Now that superA has mentioned twist. What twist does a 556 barrel need in order to take any grain ammo?

 

 

edit: Dang, superA beat me to it!

 

He was talking about a 1/7 twist on a .223. 1/10 for a .308 should stabilize anything you want to shoot.

 

Forward assist was an afterthought added when the M-16A1 was an unreliable POS. It's used for forcing the bolt into battery if the spring doesn't put it in for you. I have had some serious shit in my chamber / bolt carrier and never had to use it. The reason they have to have it is because there is no mechanical linkage between the charging handle and the bolt carrier. On an AK, you just smack the charging handle forward.

 

Shouldn't need it in a .308 due to the heavier recoil spring.

Edited February 26, 2010 by shaneman153a

[bigcec1 72]

Well I wanted the 308 because its so versatile. Cheap(er), most common full cartridge and will kill pretty much everything from paper to 500lbs animals.

 

superA....All Ive been seing is 1 in 10 twist. Is that bad? What kind off ammo goes in a 1 in 10 twist?

 

I realy like the 308s but I'm not counting out the 5.56 eighter,

A few more questions..

 

 

Whats a forward assist for? And do I need it?

 

Now that superA has mentioned twist. What twist does a 556 barrel need in order to take any grain ammo?

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, I was referring to the 556 with the 1 in 7 twist, that will handle anything that you can fit in a mag and shoot the 55 grain bullets accurately as well. The forward assist helps ensure that the bolt is fully closed, I wouldn't think that you "need" it. If you are wanting this for hunting anything decent sized, like bigger than whitetails, then I would say .308 for sure. For the same price as an AR-10 though you could have the AR-15 and another upper for it for big game, or the AR-15 and a decent bolt action .308.

 

 

 

Oh I would have to agree with the above as superA stated you can pretty much build a ar-15 and have a spare big bore upper for the cost of an ar-10 in somecases Ive got one ar-10 and I could have built 3 for the price of that sucker but the forward assist you dont need it unless you are being attacked and you cant get your bolt to go back and lock in after it fired for what ever reason I usualy just pull the charging handle back and let it rip again but this is the forward assist it has a catch on it that grabs the side of the bolt that has grooves on it and forces it forward

[shaneman153a 39]

I'm sorry, I was referring to the 556 with the 1 in 7 twist, that will handle anything that you can fit in a mag and shoot the 55 grain bullets accurately as well. The forward assist helps ensure that the bolt is fully closed, I wouldn't think that you "need" it. If you are wanting this for hunting anything decent sized, like bigger than whitetails, then I would say .308 for sure. For the same price as an AR-10 though you could have the AR-15 and another upper for it for big game, or the AR-15 and a decent bolt action .308.

 

+1, check out the WSSM uppers. Good 'nuf for mule deer.

[sh00ter 4]

Shouldn't need it in a .308 due to the heavier recoil spring.

 

wot he said! 5.56 semi auto's all suffer from the problem of "needing" a forward assist. Its because of the power of recoil spring that needs to be used, anything outside of the 5.56 shouldnt want or need a forward assist - however, after several thousand 5.56 rounds i cant recall ever having a problem - the issue i have always believed to be caused by a mixture of spring pressure and dirty bolt

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I don't know much about AR-10's.................but speaking of general AR lowers; "A lower is a lower", if you stick with a reputable brand. If you can do that, then just pick a roll-mark you like and buy it. Quality stripped AR lowers can be had all day long, for about $100 or less. Parts kits are down to normal prices again too........and installing an LPK into a stripped lower makes a basic Saiga conversion seem like rocket science. It's so easy.

 

There's also quite a few companies who sell "kits" now too. They just throw all the required parts (minus the stripped lower) into a package and sell it as a whole. Palmetto State Armory has a few, priced good, $7 shipping (orders over $200 ship free), and good people to deal with.

 

"Are they reliable?" Again, I don't know much about AR-10's.......but with 5.56 AR's, if you buy quality, you won't have the problems of "AR's don't feed cheap ammo", "They need to be fully cleaned after 4 rounds" or "It jams up 4 times every mag". All of my AR's will gobble up cheap, shitty, dirty ass ammo and still keep going. Hell, my 9mm AR has literally only been fed Brown Bear, exclusively. It doesn't even know what brass is, and it has yet to jam up. Same goes for my 5.56 AR's as far as reliability.......but I'm nicer to them, and feed them brass, once in awhile.

 

 

 

Seriously though, today's quality AR's are not the AR/M16 of the Vietnam era, which some people like to equate them to. Just stick with quality components, and you'll be fine.

[KrisFox 69]

If your going 308 get an Armilite.

 

Anything else is going to be a PITA, I know first hand.

[shaneman153a 39]

and installing an LPK into a stripped lower makes a basic Saiga conversion seem like rocket science. It's so easy.

 

+1, I hate it when AR guys refer to their "build". Makes me want to throw up. Try building an AK fags!

 

Edit: That just got me fired up thinking about it.....new avatar time!

 

Edit no. 2: OMG some assclown on another forum was just talking about a rifle, base, rings, and scope and referred to it as his "build"! Shoot me in the face!!!

 

:ded:

Edited February 27, 2010 by shaneman153a

[superA 289]

I don't know much about AR-10's.................but speaking of general AR lowers; "A lower is a lower", if you stick with a reputable brand. If you can do that, then just pick a roll-mark you like and buy it. Quality stripped AR lowers can be had all day long, for about $100 or less. Parts kits are down to normal prices again too........and installing an LPK into a stripped lower makes a basic Saiga conversion seem like rocket science. It's so easy.

 

There's also quite a few companies who sell "kits" now too. They just throw all the required parts (minus the stripped lower) into a package and sell it as a whole. Palmetto State Armory has a few, priced good, $7 shipping (orders over $200 ship free), and good people to deal with.

 

"Are they reliable?" Again, I don't know much about AR-10's.......but with 5.56 AR's, if you buy quality, you won't have the problems of "AR's don't feed cheap ammo", "They need to be fully cleaned after 4 rounds" or "It jams up 4 times every mag". All of my AR's will gobble up cheap, shitty, dirty ass ammo and still keep going. Hell, my 9mm AR has literally only been fed Brown Bear, exclusively. It doesn't even know what brass is, and it has yet to jam up. Same goes for my 5.56 AR's as far as reliability.......but I'm nicer to them, and feed them brass, once in awhile.

 

 

 

Seriously though, today's quality AR's are not the AR/M16 of the Vietnam era, which some people like to equate them to. Just stick with quality components, and you'll be fine.

 

 

 

As far as quality goes, the most important thing you can get is a very good bolt and carrier, Colt, LMT, BCM, after that a decent lower parts kit. Everything else is basically just how much performance you want to get out of it as far as accuracy is concerned. That bolt and carrier though are number 1.

[Arik 565]

Do RRA, DPMS, STAG, Armalite etc..etc.. have good bolt and carrier in their complete rifles?

 

I've been looking into a RRA 5.56 Varmint in 18in

 

Do the bull barrels make that much of a difference compared to regular barrels?

Are their 223 Wylde chamber (for 223 and 5.56) something that would cause problems as compared to a regular 556? chamber

[termite 463]

I've got a DPMS AR10 and it'll shoot 3/4" groups at 100 yards, and I'm blind in one eye and can't see out of the other. I have never had one problem out of it, but my CZ 550 bolt action with 24" barrel will put them all in one ragged hole.

[bigcec1 72]

Do RRA, DPMS, STAG, Armalite etc..etc.. have good bolt and carrier in their complete rifles?

 

I've been looking into a RRA 5.56 Varmint in 18in

 

Do the bull barrels make that much of a difference compared to regular barrels?

Are their 223 Wylde chamber (for 223 and 5.56) something that would cause problems as compared to a regular 556? chamber

 

The Wylde chamber is designed to provide accuracy for .223 AND 5.56 while handling the pressures of 5.56. Sometimes, when firing .223 in a 5.56 chambered rifle accuracy suffers. Firing 5.56 in a .223 chamber can cause excessive wear. The "in-between" applies to the difference in leades of the two cartridges. So its able to handle either round with out issues. And the heavy barrel it realy depends on what distance you are shooting and what kind of shooting you will be doing at 200-300 yards you might see a differnce with the bull I usualy run a bull on my long distance shooters

[shaneman153a 39]

You will really like that Varmint A4. They claim 3/4 and it will probably do better with good ammo!

 

Edit - Oops....no one saw that...

Edited February 27, 2010 by shaneman153a

[havok 21]

When I get a AR, I think I'am going to go with a Stag Arms model 8 piston carbine. They just came out so I will wait and see what people have to say about it first.

Edited February 27, 2010 by havok

[bigcec1 72]

When I get a AR, I think I'am going to go with a Stag Arms model 8 piston carbine. They just came out so I will wait and see what people have to say about it first.

 

 

Well at first when people first get the they will think its the greatist thing scence sliced bread untill they accutaly start getting some rounds threw it and accutaly pay attention to the dmg it will be doing to the carrier,bolt,barrel,buffer tube,upper reciever,and barrel extention. In short why try to fix somethign that is not broken. basicly people think its great untill the force of the piston starts to cause the bolt to tilt wich eats into the buffer tube chewing it into crap and hopefully it does not eat into the tube enough where the buffer retainer pin gets destroyed and causes the stock to rotate out and there is the big rage about how cool it runs less heat increases life span of the bolt right ? right it does but that heat coming out of that gas chamber is going some where so now instead of it traveling down the gas tube into the bolt carrier you put all of that hot gas into the gas block wich super heats the barrel causing barrel whip or warping wich leads to piss poor accuracy from that snazzy rifle but dont think I am bashing these systems im not work pretty good on something that is no longer than about 11" ohh and the tilt it causes on the bolt carrier causes the bolt to lift out of the barrel extention instead of pulling out of it causing premature wear and can break a bolt ive got one around here some where where the head of the bolt broke from doing this sorry if it seems like im ranting I have just had a bad experience and pretty much lost some money out on one of these cause it was all the rage rage is the right word alright cause I was pissed after the fact that I just about ruined a perfectly good ar15

[bigcec1 72]

Ohh also a big + to the ar-15 platform if you want a new gun or caliber just buy an upper and ship it right to your door and bam brand new gun to play with pop your lower off swap em out and you dont even have to wait for an ffl transfer because as long as its an upper no ffl required

[TYBOY 33]

I love my DPMS 308 with a 16" barrel. I use a EOTECH for my SHTF ranges that I may encounter. The Irons can still be used with the EOTECH installed for longer ranges. I have never had any issues with it and the finish looks great.

 

TYBOY

 

[usmc_mwroseberry 0]

I say go with a Cetme/G3, Socom, FAL. Any of which is a better weapon in my opinion. I had some nightmare experiences in the sandbox with my M16A4 and I will never own an AR as long as I live.

 

My pick below if I was you:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct618.aspx

 

Good luck,

Merritt

[22_Shooter 1,560]

When I get a AR, I think I'am going to go with a Stag Arms model 8 piston carbine. They just came out so I will wait and see what people have to say about it first.

 

 

Well at first when people first get the they will think its the greatist thing scence sliced bread untill they accutaly start getting some rounds threw it and accutaly pay attention to the dmg it will be doing to the carrier,bolt,barrel,buffer tube,upper reciever,and barrel extention. In short why try to fix somethign that is not broken. basicly people think its great untill the force of the piston starts to cause the bolt to tilt wich eats into the buffer tube chewing it into crap and hopefully it does not eat into the tube enough where the buffer retainer pin gets destroyed and causes the stock to rotate out and there is the big rage about how cool it runs less heat increases life span of the bolt right ? right it does but that heat coming out of that gas chamber is going some where so now instead of it traveling down the gas tube into the bolt carrier you put all of that hot gas into the gas block wich super heats the barrel causing barrel whip or warping wich leads to piss poor accuracy from that snazzy rifle but dont think I am bashing these systems im not work pretty good on something that is no longer than about 11" ohh and the tilt it causes on the bolt carrier causes the bolt to lift out of the barrel extention instead of pulling out of it causing premature wear and can break a bolt ive got one around here some where where the head of the bolt broke from doing this sorry if it seems like im ranting I have just had a bad experience and pretty much lost some money out on one of these cause it was all the rage rage is the right word alright cause I was pissed after the fact that I just about ruined a perfectly good ar15

 

+ fucking 1.

 

Stick with DI if you want an AR. That's my opinion on the matter. Again, buy quality and you won't regret it.

 

But I say that Stag as a brand, is a great choice for the budget-minded looking to get into AR's. I had one and it never game me any problems, and ate everything I fed it. The only complaint I ever hear about them is the gas-key staking (or lack of gas staking, I should say). It looks like they just hit the key head with a flat-head screwdriver. That being said, I've yet to hear of a Stag gas key actually ever coming loose. But either way, if it bothers you that much, you can always have it staked (or do it yourself) for cheap. Or, you could just buy a "top tier" BCG and keep the Stag as a backup. But yeah, Stag is more than good-to-go, IMO......................if you can deal with the big as stag head on the side .

[Arik 565]

USMC - I know what you mean. I heard all the stories and then some about the ARs. And I've stayed away from them ever since I got into shooting (10-12 years now) But its one of those things that was always in the back of my mind.."gotta try one, gotta try one, gotta try one!" So I figured it was about time I get this out of my system.

 

Went to the gun show yesterday in York Pa. They had lots of cools stuff. I need to win the lottery!! DSA G3s, FALs, ARs, AKs, oh my!! Prices were ok bordering on good. S12s $419, Basic conversion S12s $750 (not many of those though) FALs and G3s/Cetme in the $1300 range. ANd ARs in about the $1000 range. I played with a lot of AR. Mostly they had Bushmasters and DPMS. One guy had maybe 20 ARs all decked out with every gizmo imaginable. Some were clearly quality stuff like EOtechs but most stuff was Chinese knockoffs. I asked him if I can just buy the rifle since I didnt need the extra $500-$1000 gizmos, but he wouldnt sell just the rifles. I finally found one guy who had a few rifles. He had a brand new Daniel Defense DDM4 carbine. I explained to him that I was new to this and only real experience I've had was with the AKs. He was cool about it. Some others started to give me attitudes about that. They would take the rifle away almost instantly. Like being an AK guy ment I was about to smash their rifle against the wall. This guy took it apart showed me how it works. Took a few others apart to to compare and show me that they can be interchanged. After talking with him for maybe an hour I walked away with the DDM4, 2 mags and a case for $951. I think I got a fairly good deal out of it. If I dont like it I'm sure I wount loose much if I sell it or trade it.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Arik

[shaneman153a 39]

USMC - I know what you mean. I heard all the stories and then some about the ARs. And I've stayed away from them ever since I got into shooting (10-12 years now) But its one of those things that was always in the back of my mind.."gotta try one, gotta try one, gotta try one!" So I figured it was about time I get this out of my system.

 

Went to the gun show yesterday in York Pa. They had lots of cools stuff. I need to win the lottery!! DSA G3s, FALs, ARs, AKs, oh my!! Prices were ok bordering on good. S12s $419, Basic conversion S12s $750 (not many of those though) FALs and G3s/Cetme in the $1300 range. ANd ARs in about the $1000 range. I played with a lot of AR. Mostly they had Bushmasters and DPMS. One guy had maybe 20 ARs all decked out with every gizmo imaginable. Some were clearly quality stuff like EOtechs but most stuff was Chinese knockoffs. I asked him if I can just buy the rifle since I didnt need the extra $500-$1000 gizmos, but he wouldnt sell just the rifles. I finally found one guy who had a few rifles. He had a brand new Daniel Defense DDM4 carbine. I explained to him that I was new to this and only real experience I've had was with the AKs. He was cool about it. Some others started to give me attitudes about that. They would take the rifle away almost instantly. Like being an AK guy ment I was about to smash their rifle against the wall. This guy took it apart showed me how it works. Took a few others apart to to compare and show me that they can be interchanged. After talking with him for maybe an hour I walked away with the DDM4, 2 mags and a case for $951. I think I got a fairly good deal out of it. If I dont like it I'm sure I wount loose much if I sell it or trade it.

 

Pics or lies!! Grats man, sounds like a good deal!

Edited March 2, 2010 by shaneman153a