Magwell for my 223

[BUFF_dragon 3]

Hey yall, I am getting parts together to do a conversion on my 223 (have converted an S12 previously, so I know about the conversion ease).

The thing I'm having issues with is finding a magwell that'll take AR mags. I know that there are some out there that will pop in, allow me to use AR mags, pop out and I can continue using the AK mags.... that is what I want.

The problem that I am running into is that I can't find anywhere that still has them. It seems like Magnolia is not shipping anything and is nothin but a money hole at this point, and the 'buckmaster' (or whatever the guy's name is, I can't remember right now) just looks too AR15ish to me.

I really like the design of the Magnolia as it doesn't make it look like I'm building a mutant AK/R or something...

 

any help on where to get one of the Magnolia adapters would be GREAT!!!

 

Thanks

[christcorp 26]

Well, to be honest, those are the ONLY 2 manufacturers of AR15/Saiga.223 adapters that I know of. And to be honest, Renegade is out of stock right now, but is expecting some more in soon. But I've been involved with magazine mods for the 4 months, and I personally don't know of ANY other company/manufacturer/provider of AR15 adapters. I personally have chosen the Renegade model. As soon as they are in stock, I will get one ordered. The reason for my preference with renegade is the material in my opinion is better; plus I like that I can take it out as simple as removing a magazine. Thus allowing me to use OEM/Surefire magazines against. The Magnolia from what I hear, requires a lot more machining and is semi-permanent. Anyway, that's my $0.02. Plus, with all the emails and pm's I've had with Renegade trying to understand the process better, I couldn't ask for a better person to do business with. Definitely 1st class. But if you do find a 3rd provider, definitely let us know.

[GregM1 241]

there have been a few companies to produce the adapters. renegade buck and MSA are the better ones out there. i have not heard any complaints from any of the users of either.

[christcorp 26]

From my understanding, and I could be totally wrong, the MSA adapters were simply sold by various retailers, like Mississippi arms. But I don't know of another product other than the MSA and Renegade's. But again, I could be wrong. And I believe that Renegade's was the only true Snap in/Out of the two.

[BUFF_dragon 3]

I would try to design somethin up but I cant find a shop that will work with me for nothin..... I've got an Ambi BHO designed that I cant find anyone to produce.....

[55645 1]

from what I remember on another gun forum someone made a mistake and bought an MSA galil ar15 mag adapter for their saiga and it still functioned. I got one of those saiga ar15 adapters on my saiga and love it, I'm a lefty and the MSA has a Ambidextrous mag release which is a big +.

 

here's a pic of my 223 MSA mag adapter and my 12ga

Edited March 4, 2010 by 55645

[BUFF_dragon 3]

is the MSA removable?

can you still use AK mags with it? like you can the Renegade?

 

Can you possibly take some detailed pictures and stuff for me to look at?

 

do you still need the dinzag bullet guide with the AR adapter??

[christcorp 26]

I can't speak for the MSA, but for the reneage, it's all self sustained. Snap in - Snap out. As fast as a magazine. It DOES NOT require any type of bullet guide to be added. Which is nice, considering the dinzag bullet guide, which is definitely the best out there, doesn't allow OEM/Surefire magazines to be used without modifying the front of the magazines. That was my ultimate goal, to adapt the dinzag to work as intended, but be shorter to allow for oem/surefire mags to work. Then, add the renegade ar adapter. Then basically, I could use any mag available. But dinzag told me that when they shortened the bullet guide, it created certain issues with feeding. So if you want to use oem/surefire mags, you have to mod them slightly. Plus, if you use the dinzag bullet guide, you CAN USE the renegade ar adapter. Not sure about the MSA adapter. It's a shame too, because we're sitting here with some excellent designs and improvements on the saiga, and there's no way to make them all work together. So the choices are:

 

1. Leave it stock and use OEM, Surefire, or Promag (slightly modified) magazines.

2. Put in a dinzag bullet guide, still can use promag, AK74, weiner, galil, etc... mags

3. Use the renegade AR adapter, use any AR15/M16 magazine, and simply snap it out and use OEM or Saiga and promag magazines,

4. Use the MSA, which I believe is somewhat of a permanent modification. Then only use AR15/M16 magazines.

 

edited to correct a typo.

Edited March 4, 2010 by christcorp

[Alexc.s. 25]

The MSA is NOT permanent! I only had one problem with mine. I did the work myself...

I made the cut to deep and had to mod my surefire mags a bit.

30 seconds with a file on the tabs of the sure fire mags and now they all work as intended.

MSA adapters are very good, but they are not currently available.(As far as I can tell.)

Both of the adapters mentioned are as good as it gets.

If you find a galil to AR MSA adapter they can be made to work on a saiga.

I have seen it done and will try to find a link.

[BUFF_dragon 3]

so you're saying that my already installed bullet guide for use with the AK223 metal mags that I already have wont work if I put in an adapter?

I just bought 27 AR mags to use with this conversion.... lord lord I hope I didn't f-up

[55645 1]

is the MSA removable?

can you still use AK mags with it? like you can the Renegade?

 

Can you possibly take some detailed pictures and stuff for me to look at?

 

do you still need the dinzag bullet guide with the AR adapter??

 

is the MSA removable?

Yes its removable rocks in & and removes just like an ak mag

 

can you still use AK mags with it? like you can the Renegade?

the only mags i have tried was my saiga Factory 10rd mag and a 30rd surefire mags and both worked but had some wobble just like the WASR ak , haven't tried any other 223 ak mag in my rifle.

 

I wish MSA would make there semi permanent mag adapter because everyone i let shoot my rifle removes the mag as if it was just a regular ak mag lol

 

do you still need the dinzag bullet guide with the AR adapter??

No but I did at one time have dinzag bullet guide installed when i was using the UA galil ar15 mag adapter for my saiga but had noting but problems with that UA adapter, traded the 10rd factory mag and 30rd surefire mag and bullet guide to a buddy for a few ar15 Pmags.

 

Can you possibly take some detailed pictures and stuff for me to look at?

will try to get some good pics the only cam i have at the moment is a cellphone cam

 

here is a link to an old page from when i was having trouble with the UA adapter

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=20505

 

here is when i got the MSA mag adapter

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=48518

 

here is a video of me test firing my saiga after installing the MSA adapter

My link

 

After using the MSA adapter i made the decision to use only ar15 mags in my rifle since everyone i know has an ar15, and i can easily share mags with them and they are very cheap, also US made AR15 mags count as 3 parts.

[55645 1]

The MSA is NOT permanent! I only had one problem with mine. I did the work myself...

I made the cut to deep and had to mod my surefire mags a bit.

30 seconds with a file on the tabs of the sure fire mags and now they all work as intended.

MSA adapters are very good, but they are not currently available.(As far as I can tell.)

Both of the adapters mentioned are as good as it gets.

If you find a galil to AR MSA adapter they can be made to work on a saiga.

I have seen it done and will try to find a link.

 

Galil .223 AR Mag Adapter

http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/galil-223-ar-mag-adapter-p-454.html

[BUFF_dragon 3]

I'm just thinking of MANY things, and the versatility of using AK and AR mags in the same gun is simply unbeatable.... the availability of 223 ammo is good, AR mags.... its just a great combo.

I'm wanting to set this gun up for an Appleseed Shoot this summer and really want to freak everyone out when I have an AK using AR mags

[55645 1]

so you're saying that my already installed bullet guide for use with the AK223 metal mags that I already have wont work if I put in an adapter?

I just bought 27 AR mags to use with this conversion.... lord lord I hope I didn't f-up

 

with the MSA adapter it says it will work read what MSA says on question 6

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=30759

[christcorp 26]

Buff dragon: I believe I misspoke. I don't know about the MSA, but the Renegade WILL WORK WITH A BULLET GUIDE. My bad. I was involved with so many experiments and modifications, that I got mixed up. I just checked a recent message I had with renegade, and it will work fine with a Dinzag bullet guide. No problem. You are fine. Sorry about that. Nut with the dinzag bullet guide, you still CAN'T use the OEM or Surefire magazines without some basic modification to the mags. Their built in bullet guide sticks out too far and won't clear the dinzag bullet guide. So you have to file down a little bit of the magazine. Not a big issue if you're just wanting a couple of original magazines to work. I'm going to start with the renegade when he gets them back in stock, then possibly work my way up to the bullet guide. Considering the cost and availability of many of the orlites, weins, galil, etc... AND because I need to stay "AMERICAN" on the magazines for 922r purposes, I really don't have a need for anything other than the renegade. Then I'll just use AR15/M16 or OEM/Surefire magazines. Again, sorry for the mix up.

Edited March 4, 2010 by christcorp

[BUFF_dragon 3]

no problem, thats why I'm tryin to get everything lined out. I believe the mags that I have for it already are Galil's.... I already have the bullet guide put in to use those (had to file on them a little as well to get them to fully lock in)

[GregM1 241]

i had forgot the name of the other producer untill 55645 posted that thread link. i was thinking they weren't very reliable. Didn't ORF go under recently due to ATF involvement or is that temporary?

[saigafreake 27]

orf went under because they ran out of money.

[bohound 281]

So where are the Renegade mag adapters sold? I was eyeballing the last MSA adapter that MAA had, and somebody bought it (according to availability) the day before I intended to!

 

Just so we're all straight here: Both adapters can function with or without a BG???

 

I want an AR mag adapter!!!

[GregM1 241]

check this thread if you are interested in the ones by renegadebuck.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=20505&st=30&p=440663&fromsearch=1entry440663

[bohound 281]

Thanks Greg... Took me a second to see what you meant by that thread, but I sent the requisite PM...

 

Hopefully I'll be running PMags soon, and my massive investment in Surefires will be worthless! Glad alot are still in plastic!

[Alexc.s. 25]

Sorry bohound from what i can tell i got the last one from MAA.

They took it off their list of products a day after I ordered.

Need to keep both eyes open or some one will try to sang it from me.

[GregM1 241]

Thanks Greg... Took me a second to see what you meant by that thread, but I sent the requisite PM...

 

Hopefully I'll be running PMags soon, and my massive investment in Surefires will be worthless! Glad alot are still in plastic!

 

 

you will still be able to use your surefires though unless you just want to run pmags only. the adapter is removable from what i have read. ask renegade. he will be able to give a positive answer.