Building an AK105 Clone

[justinmcmillion 77]

The hardest part of an AK-105 clone is that 3rd select position.

 

All you need is a registered AK machine gun and just clone a 105 with the receiver...

 

Or if you don't mind the ATF knocking on your door and introducing you to bubba its only an extra hole

[justinmcmillion 77]

There is a 105 parts kit over at theakforum here:

 

http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=97897

 

I am suprised you guys haven't picked it up. 1k is small change for all the parts hes offering. I have bought items from the seller before, hes a great guy to deal with.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the great resource! Your right Dave seems to be a great guy, I went ahead and purchased this from him, Great price considering buying all things individually. So I will probably be selling some of the parts I have already acquired.

 

Heres a pic of the parts kit.

 

 

It is a Russian MMG parts kit circa '95

 

Now the long wait for Ted Marshall...

[ThirtyCal 0]

There is a 105 parts kit over at theakforum here:

 

http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=97897

 

I am suprised you guys haven't picked it up. 1k is small change for all the parts hes offering. I have bought items from the seller before, hes a great guy to deal with.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the great resource! Your right Dave seems to be a great guy, I went ahead and purchased this from him, Great price considering buying all things individually. So I will probably be selling some of the parts I have already acquired.

 

Heres a pic of the parts kit.

 

<picture deleted>

 

It is a Russian MMG parts kit circa '95

 

Now the long wait for Ted Marshall...

 

Very nice - that will be a sweet build. Lots of work ahead for Ted :-)

 

-Thirtycal

[justinmcmillion 77]

Very nice - that will be a sweet build. Lots of work ahead for Ted :-)

 

-Thirtycal

 

Yeah if it wasn't such a rare kit/build I would do most of it myself.. Ive done some serious hacking and moding on my s12s but if I screw up on them I'm out $500 and I can go buy another, from talking to Dave he thinks there are only a Dozen or so Russian 105 kits in the US... I dont trust myself enough plus there are things that Ted does that I cant! Like the faux 3rd pin just for looks and all of the serialization of the individual parts as well as adding the second trigger bump. Hes the only one that I would send this build to.

 

I cant wait!

 

But I have too.....

 

Now Im looking for a good deal on a SGL31 if anyone knows of one please let me know!

[bigsal 757]

Very nice - that will be a sweet build. Lots of work ahead for Ted :-)

 

-Thirtycal

 

Yeah if it wasn't such a rare kit/build I would do most of it myself.. Ive done some serious hacking and moding on my s12s but if I screw up on them I'm out $500 and I can go buy another, from talking to Dave he thinks there are only a Dozen or so Russian 105 kits in the US... I dont trust myself enough plus there are things that Ted does that I cant! Like the faux 3rd pin just for looks and all of the serialization of the individual parts as well as adding the second trigger bump. Hes the only one that I would send this build to.

 

I cant wait!

 

But I have too.....

 

Now Im looking for a good deal on a SGL31 if anyone knows of one please let me know!

 

Congrats on the kit! Let me know if you have leftover parts you want to part with cheaply.....

 

I am salivating over the finished product, remember to post pics when you get it back.

[justinmcmillion 77]

 

 

Congrats on the kit! Let me know if you have leftover parts you want to part with cheaply.....

 

I am salivating over the finished product, remember to post pics when you get it back.

 

Thanks Im super excited I might sell the 500m sight unless I can use it on my AIMR clone (if correct). Ive decided to use the other 5.5mm stock + trunion on my saiga 12 sbs build, since I have the front latch as well.

 

I will definitely post pictures but I dont see this project being finished anytime soon, not on my end, buy the long wait for Ted

 

Anyone know a good source to buy the proper pistol grip reinforment plate? also does anyone know if the SGL's Trigger guard is correct?

[Donkismash 81]

Ted advertises them on his website...the TG I have no idea

[ThirtyCal 0]

 

 

Congrats on the kit! Let me know if you have leftover parts you want to part with cheaply.....

 

I am salivating over the finished product, remember to post pics when you get it back.

 

Thanks Im super excited I might sell the 500m sight unless I can use it on my AIMR clone (if correct). Ive decided to use the other 5.5mm stock + trunion on my saiga 12 sbs build, since I have the front latch as well.

 

I will definitely post pictures but I dont see this project being finished anytime soon, not on my end, buy the long wait for Ted

 

Anyone know a good source to buy the proper pistol grip reinforment plate? also does anyone know if the SGL's Trigger guard is correct?

 

 

Keep the site that came with the kit. That one is Russian. They other one you have is Bugly as I mentioned.

 

Yes, Ted himself makes a PG reinforcement plate so he'll take care of that.

 

And no, the SGL-31 trigger guard technically is not Russian - it's a Bulgarian that has been hand-modified with a grinder to look like it has the Russian cloverleaf cut.

 

-Thirtycal

[justinmcmillion 77]

Found A True Black 74 mag that is used in the 105's is it worth $100?

 

I know they are pretty rare but not sure if they are $100 rare?

[ThirtyCal 0]

Found A True Black 74 mag that is used in the 105's is it worth $100?

 

I know they are pretty rare but not sure if they are $100 rare?

 

SOunds right. That's about what I paid for mine when Tic0 brought them in.

 

Thirtycal

Edited April 4, 2010 by ThirtyCal

[justinmcmillion 77]

 

 

Congrats on the kit! Let me know if you have leftover parts you want to part with cheaply.....

 

I am salivating over the finished product, remember to post pics when you get it back.

 

Thanks Im super excited I might sell the 500m sight unless I can use it on my AIMR clone (if correct). Ive decided to use the other 5.5mm stock + trunion on my saiga 12 sbs build, since I have the front latch as well.

 

I will definitely post pictures but I dont see this project being finished anytime soon, not on my end, buy the long wait for Ted

 

Anyone know a good source to buy the proper pistol grip reinforment plate? also does anyone know if the SGL's Trigger guard is correct?

 

 

Keep the site that came with the kit. That one is Russian. They other one you have is Bugly as I mentioned.

 

Yes, Ted himself makes a PG reinforcement plate so he'll take care of that.

 

And no, the SGL-31 trigger guard technically is not Russian - it's a Bulgarian that has been hand-modified with a grinder to look like it has the Russian cloverleaf cut.

 

-Thirtycal

 

 

I meant I was going to sell the one you classified as Bulgy

 

I plan on keeping ALL of the 105 kit, but just use US handguards+PG for compliance (I know some say that 922 doesnt apply to NFA but better safe than sorry), I want to have all the parts to make the gun 100% Russian.

 

Thanks for the info on the TG, Any source for the Correct Russian Trigger Guard?

[justinmcmillion 77]

Ted advertises them on his website...the TG I have no idea

 

K thanks

 

 

Found A True Black 74 mag that is used in the 105's is it worth $100?

 

I know they are pretty rare but not sure if they are $100 rare?

 

SOunds right. That's about what I paid for mine when Tic0 brought them in.

 

Thirtycal

 

Ouch...

[justinmcmillion 77]

Found Another good source of info

 

http://www.avtomats-in-action.com/parts7.html

 

With good comparison pictures of the gas blocks Bulgy on Left, Russian on Right

 

 

 

 

 

 

RUSSIAN AND BULGARIAN COMPARISONS

 

The AK-100 short barrel assembly is developed around a new style combination front sight base/gas block to create a single, unique combination unit. Here we show an original Russian AK-100 unit (right side) alongside the more commonly available Bulgarian version. Both are unpainted original production units, and are fully finished castings. The Russian unit does not have a windage drum installed. Note various differences, which we will discuss below.

 

BARREL JOURNAL NOTES

 

One interesting variation between the Russian (right) and Bulgarian examples concerns the barrel journal size. The Russian combination unit is made to fit the barrel step (or journal) of the front sight base, while the Bulgarian unit is made to fit the gas block journal on a regular barrel. This means the Bulgarian unit was designed to simply fit a regular AK barrel that has been shortened, while the Russian gas block/FSB is made to fit a re-contoured barrel with a smaller journal size at the gas vent.

 

BULGARIAN RELOCATION OF THE DETENT PIN HOUSING

 

Note the differences in shape and location of the detent pin housing, which holds the detent pin/detent spring and cross-pin retainer. All of these parts retain and "clock" the muzzle booster, and are located at the top right side of the barrel sleeve. The Bulgarian detent location is lower (about 10:00) and angular, while the Russian version is higher (11:00) and more rounded in shape.

 

RUSSIAN MUZZLE ATTACHMENT "CLOCKS" IDENTICAL TO THE AKS-74U

 

The Russian boosters are indexed (see identical detent pin notch) to clock exactly like the AKSU booster. However, the Bulgarian "AK-100" unit will not properly clock either AKSU boosters or original Russian AK-100 boosters, because it has a lower detent positioning location. The Bulgarian unit was designed to use the Bulgarian-unique, square-shaped muzzle device (with internal cone hider) as used on the AR-SF series in 7,62x39mm and 5,56x45mm.

 

DETENT CROSS-PIN THROUGH-HOLE

 

This photo illustrates the differences in the location of the cross-pin that holds the detent and it's spring. The Russian unit (right) has a through-hole which is above the barrel, while the Bulgarian unit has no through-hole (due to the low location of the detent pin tube on the right side) and the pin must either be installed blind or used as a barrel pin.

 

SHORTER GAS CYLINDER EXTENSION FOR USE WITH A SHORTER BARREL

 

Also note that the Russian pattern is made to be located closer to the receiver (by about 7mm), and does not fit in the same exact location as the AK-74 gas block. Due to it's location on the barrel, the gas tube extension has been shortened a small amount in order to still use the regular AK-74 length gas tube. In the case of the Bulgarian unit, the gas tube extension is longer, since the part is made to fit the standard gas block location on the AK/AK-74. What this means is that the original Russian model carbine would have a slightly shorter barrel than the Bulgarian model. Both styles are made to use a regular, full length AK-74 style gas tube. It is quite clear the Russian AK-100 carbine has a unique barrel and was not simply designed around a cut-down AK-74 barrel. For reasons of tuning (and to meet specifications on length) it was engineered to be slightly shorter with a gas vent hole relocated rearward.

 

This rear view image illustrates more differences in the Russian (right) and Bulgarian (left) patterns. Note the Russian model and it's higher mounted detent tube. The Bulgarian pattern exhibits a heavier, more angular detent housing.

 

LARGE STYLE "SIGHT EARS"

 

The Russian unit has the larger diameter protective sight (open ring) ears of the AKSU unit (18mm), while the Bulgarian "sight ears" are smaller and identical to those of the AK-74 (about 16mm).

 

As we discussed previously, the Russian unit has an internal barrel journal diameter (14.5mm) which matches the front sight bases of the AKM/AK-74. The Bulgarian model is made to fit cut-down barrels and has a larger diameter to match the gas block journals of these barrels (15mm). Note the large diamond proof on the rear of the Russian combination block. The Russian gas cylinder extension still shows a layer of brownish-yellow cosmoline.

[bigsal 757]

Updates and/or progress reports JMac???

[justinmcmillion 77]

Updates and/or progress reports JMac???

 

THanks for asking but unfortunately no new news.. I have all the parts to do the build now. I took a few snapshots to let you see. Its raining outside and the lighting sucks in my house..

 

I'm just looking for a good deal on a SGL31 right now and I bought another 5.45 krink which used the money I had saved up for the SGL, but 5.45 krinks are harder to come across than SGL31's..

 

My s12 was the donor for one of the 5.5mm trunions and it is now proudly wearing the Izzy triangle, thought it would be more appropriate on the s12 because when I get my paper work back (pending as of 4/6/10) I will be chopping the bbl to 10" where the rubber band is and it will fit in nicely with my Krinks

 

 

5.5mm stocks

 

Top cover seems to be Identical to a saiga Left to right - 107cr, 105 kit, saiga .223

 

Top to bottom - 107cr, 105 kit, saiga .223

 

The gas tube locking tab looks identical to the saiga but is different from the 107cr

 

The Rear sight is longer than the Bulgarian and is the same size as the Saiga

 

107cr vs. ak 105kit rear sight

 

Sight rail is different from 107cr

But looks identical to the Saiga

 

the kit..

 

Close up of gas block

 

Still no reply from Ted Marshall.. I have his phone number but hate to bug him, we talked on the phone a couple times and you can tell he is an extremely busy individual. Ill call him when I have everything ready.

 

If there is anything you would like to see a detailed picture of or need dimensions from let me know. I'm always glad to lend any info in hope that someone else would to the same for me! Thanks to you guys Im this far in the project and I know Im doing it right!

Edited April 26, 2010 by JMac

[bigsal 757]

Great pics, thanks for the update. I think Ted only does a dozen or so a year, so this will be a great rifle for you when done! I look foward to seeing this thing completed.

[Donkismash 81]

the saiga looks like it uses a bunch of 100 series parts....the safety selector I know has the dimple in the wrong place....the SGL's have the correct one I think...you got one hell of a deal on the parts kit...the gas block/FSB alone just went for $350+ on gunbroker...Oleg needs to get some more 5.5mm trunion kits....I have been seeing a lot of stocks with no hardware for sale lately

 

Edit: I know Ted is THE man when it comes to authentic builds but have you ever looked into these guys?

 

http://www.coldwarclassics.com/index.html

Edited April 27, 2010 by Donkismash

[bigsal 757]

the saiga looks like it uses a bunch of 100 series parts....the safety selector I know has the dimple in the wrong place....the SGL's have the correct one I think...you got one hell of a deal on the parts kit...the gas block/FSB alone just went for $350+ on gunbroker...Oleg needs to get some more 5.5mm trunion kits....I have been seeing a lot of stocks with no hardware for sale lately

 

Edit: I know Ted is THE man when it comes to authentic builds but have you ever looked into these guys?

 

http://www.coldwarclassics.com/index.html

 

His work is top notch as well. Piece of History Firearms and (My personal favorate) In-Range also do awesome work.

[Donkismash 81]

the saiga looks like it uses a bunch of 100 series parts....the safety selector I know has the dimple in the wrong place....the SGL's have the correct one I think...you got one hell of a deal on the parts kit...the gas block/FSB alone just went for $350+ on gunbroker...Oleg needs to get some more 5.5mm trunion kits....I have been seeing a lot of stocks with no hardware for sale lately

 

Edit: I know Ted is THE man when it comes to authentic builds but have you ever looked into these guys?

 

http://www.coldwarclassics.com/index.html

 

His work is top notch as well. Piece of History Firearms and (My personal favorate) In-Range also do awesome work.

Troy does some kick ass as well and I was shocked at there pricing...I was quoted 150 to install a 5.5mm folder then moly over park the rifle...its hard to find a place that will moly over park for 150

[bigsal 757]

the saiga looks like it uses a bunch of 100 series parts....the safety selector I know has the dimple in the wrong place....the SGL's have the correct one I think...you got one hell of a deal on the parts kit...the gas block/FSB alone just went for $350+ on gunbroker...Oleg needs to get some more 5.5mm trunion kits....I have been seeing a lot of stocks with no hardware for sale lately

 

Edit: I know Ted is THE man when it comes to authentic builds but have you ever looked into these guys?

 

http://www.coldwarclassics.com/index.html

 

His work is top notch as well. Piece of History Firearms and (My personal favorate) In-Range also do awesome work.

Troy does some kick ass as well and I was shocked at there pricing...I was quoted 150 to install a 5.5mm folder then moly over park the rifle...its hard to find a place that will moly over park for 150

 

I got charged 200 for a similar action. his turn around time was one week! thats unheard of. great guy to work with.

[justinmcmillion 77]

Does Anyone other than Ted do the Faux 3rd pin? Thats one of the main reasons I want him to build it.. The second trigger bump isnt a huge deal, but is authentic.

 

I installed my own 5.5mm trunion and rattle can'd my s12.. You should see my beautiful rivets

 

Like Ive said before I dont care to hack and weld on my s12 but this build is over my head so it must be sent to a proffesional

[bigsal 757]

Does Anyone other than Ted do the Faux 3rd pin? Thats one of the main reasons I want him to build it.. The second trigger bump isnt a huge deal, but is authentic.

 

I installed my own 5.5mm trunion and rattle can'd my s12.. You should see my beautiful rivets

 

Like Ive said before I dont care to hack and weld on my s12 but this build is over my head so it must be sent to a proffesional

I think he's the only one that does the fake 3rd pin. Not 100% sure though, call around maybe someone else does it.

[justinmcmillion 77]

Ok guys.. Im kinda losing interest in this project and need some advice..

 

Should I wait for Ted Marshall or should I just send it to someone else and have it assembled?

 

I'm half tempted just to buy a saiga 5.45 and send it to a reputable builder

 

Right now I have about $1500 in this project.. the arsenal is another $750 plus the build cost and the $200 tax stamp

 

So most likely this will be a $3K gun.. damnit...

 

I want this to be a really good clone, esp since its gonna be a minimum of $2200

 

What should I do?

[Donkismash 81]

What should I do?

I can only say what I would do.I would send it to another builder.The ONLY thing you will be missing if the fake third pin.

[bigsal 757]

I agree, if the fake pin is important than wait.... OR ask if Troy can do the same thing (I bet he would).

[justinmcmillion 77]

How important is the fake pin? I think they look amazing and I figure with just a handful of Russian ak105 kits in the US according to multiple sources, that the old adage applied - If its worth doing, its worth over doing.

Theres only 2 people I know of that have the Russian Gas Block, and one of them doesnt have it any more I do..

 

I have a feeling I will regret not getting the faux 3rd pin..

 

Im gonna have a problem only buying one sgl-31... Im gonna want another to just put a folding stock on and turn into an AKS-74. That would be the perfect candidate for the 5.5mm triangle and Russian Wood

[bigsal 757]

How important is the fake pin? I think they look amazing and I figure with just a handful of Russian ak105 kits in the US according to multiple sources, that the old adage applied - If its worth doing, its worth over doing.

Theres only 2 people I know of that have the Russian Gas Block, and one of them doesnt have it any more I do..

 

I have a feeling I will regret not getting the faux 3rd pin..

 

Im gonna have a problem only buying one sgl-31... Im gonna want another to just put a folding stock on and turn into an AKS-74. That would be the perfect candidate for the 5.5mm triangle and Russian Wood

 

remember, in these tough times it is important to spend a shit ton of money thus making BigSal feel inadequate.....

[justinmcmillion 77]

How important is the fake pin? I think they look amazing and I figure with just a handful of Russian ak105 kits in the US according to multiple sources, that the old adage applied - If its worth doing, its worth over doing.

Theres only 2 people I know of that have the Russian Gas Block, and one of them doesnt have it any more I do..

 

I have a feeling I will regret not getting the faux 3rd pin..

 

Im gonna have a problem only buying one sgl-31... Im gonna want another to just put a folding stock on and turn into an AKS-74. That would be the perfect candidate for the 5.5mm triangle and Russian Wood

 

remember, in these tough times it is important to spend a shit ton of money thus making BigSal feel inadequate.....

 

haha I will probably just end up with the current "sin"terfire special as my 16" ak74.. quite tempting at $369 shipped with 3 mags..

[bigsal 757]

How important is the fake pin? I think they look amazing and I figure with just a handful of Russian ak105 kits in the US according to multiple sources, that the old adage applied - If its worth doing, its worth over doing.

Theres only 2 people I know of that have the Russian Gas Block, and one of them doesnt have it any more I do..

 

I have a feeling I will regret not getting the faux 3rd pin..

 

Im gonna have a problem only buying one sgl-31... Im gonna want another to just put a folding stock on and turn into an AKS-74. That would be the perfect candidate for the 5.5mm triangle and Russian Wood

 

remember, in these tough times it is important to spend a shit ton of money thus making BigSal feel inadequate.....

 

haha I will probably just end up with the current "sin"terfire special as my 16" ak74.. quite tempting at $369 shipped with 3 mags..

 

Hey be aware you could buy a SGL-32, just out today, and cannibalize the receiver keeping the cooler CR-style barrel:

[Donkismash 81]

How important is the fake pin? I think they look amazing and I figure with just a handful of Russian ak105 kits in the US according to multiple sources, that the old adage applied - If its worth doing, its worth over doing.

Theres only 2 people I know of that have the Russian Gas Block, and one of them doesnt have it any more I do..

 

I have a feeling I will regret not getting the faux 3rd pin..

 

Im gonna have a problem only buying one sgl-31... Im gonna want another to just put a folding stock on and turn into an AKS-74. That would be the perfect candidate for the 5.5mm triangle and Russian Wood

 

remember, in these tough times it is important to spend a shit ton of money thus making BigSal feel inadequate.....

 

haha I will probably just end up with the current "sin"terfire special as my 16" ak74.. quite tempting at $369 shipped with 3 mags..

 

Hey be aware you could buy a SGL-32, just out today, and cannibalize the receiver keeping the cooler CR-style barrel:

that really pisses me off...no 7.62x39 love