Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 6, 2005 Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Hey Ya'll. Happily I'm almost finished with my long awaited conversion from S-12 to AKS-12. At least that's what I'm calling it. Rather than answer all your questions one at a time I'm going to attempt to outline the whole project from the beginning. I took pics all along the way so that I could do this and hopefully help someone who wants to try a conversion like mine. After all I learned most everything I know about Saigas and converting them from reading posts on this site over the last couple of years. Yes that was me lurking <grin>The rest I learned both by trial and error and from a CD I bought from a fellow member a long time ago. I haven't seen any posts by him in a while but have been in touch through email and he still has the CDs. Here's an old post by him so you can get up with him if you like. I highly recomend his CD. It's full of good info and some cool movies. Compiled info on Saiga conversions Messiah Jones Posted on: Aug 27 2003, 09:48 AM Member * Group: Members Posts: 76 Joined: 8-April 03 Member No.: 43 Saiga Conversion CD + AK 47 & SKS Info Free Shipping Technical Help available every day -High capacity magazine conversion instructions for the 7.62X39 and the .223/5.56 Saiga rifles. (step-by-step color pics). -Pistol grip conversion for all Saiga rifles. (step-by-step color pics, for legality you must follow instructions). -Instructions for converting the Saiga front grip to AK style handgaurds. (Pics of all the parts needed are included). -How to do a trigger job on an unmodified Saiga. -Free Tech Help on Saiga Conversions (available every day). -How to build an Ak from a kit, plus printable Template for your blank reciever. -Ballistics Software for calculating bullet velocity, range and drop for any caliber. -Several military sniper manuals / shooting guides. -Conversion of SKS rifle to accept AK mags. -Over eighty short movies of AKs firing and exploding targets! -Saiga, AK, and SKS pictures. (Some custom jobs). -An animation of an AK firing so you can see the internals working. -Links to sites to buy all the parts needed for the conversions. -A lot of various other SKS and AK info. It took me a year of searching the web and asking questions just to get the information for the Saiga conversions. The information is scattered, unorganized and nearly impossible to find. Don't go through what I did. This CD has step-by-step pics that will comfort even the beginner with his/her conversion. In fact, this is many people's first gunsmithing project. After reading it over you will understand why so many people do this themselves and how it saves them so much money. You simply can't go wrong with a Saiga regarding quality and price, and even a monkey can do the conversions. The additional AK and SKS info has value as well. Even people who aren't interested in the Saiga conversions will like the bonus AK and SKS material. Approximately 480 megs of info. These are regular quality CDs burned at home. There are no originals and these are not copies since the info is just stored on my PC at home. Everything is just categorized simply in folders. It's nothing fancy, but this may in fact be the only place to get such information. Note : These are not DVDs, they are intended to be viewed on a computer CDROM. Free Shipping! Just do a search for his member name and you can contact him from there. I'm not really trying to do a tutorial as that involves a lot of extra typing about legalities and all kinds of stuff and I type with two fingers LOL. Besides this has already been done by several people. USMC LB has a good thread covering all the bases in the FAQ section. I highly suggest reading this thoroughly as well as the one by The Shiek before attempting your conversion. Mine will pertain strictly to converting a Saiga shotgun to an "AK on Steroids" There will be lots of pics and I will try to explain everything I did the best I can. If you have questions please hold them till the end and I will answer all of them I can. PLEASE DO NOT POST HERE OR REPLY TO THIS THREAD ! This is my thread. When I'm done blabbing the floor will be yours. I will let you know when. I don't really know how else to do this except to do repeated posts of my own. Maybe the moderators can straighten it out later. Please keep in mind that there are surely other ways to put AK handguards on a Saiga. For most people the most difficult way is to first press off the gas block so you can remove the gas tube and attach the upper and lower retainers. The gas tube on the Saiga shotties can not be removed unless you do this first. This and the fact that the S12 has a huge barrel compaired to an AK is the reason why nobody I've seen has done this with a shotgun until now. I chose not to do it this way because I don't have access to the proper machinery for this and I didn't want to risk bugering up my gas block or anything trying to heat it and beat it. When I want something bad enough I FIND a way to make it work, hence my signature, "Improvise!, Adapt!, Overcome!" Also if you are one of those who cringe at the thought of JB Weld being used on a firearm then read no further. I don't have any experience welding and I just don't believe in paying someone else to do something I think I can accomplish myself. I have friends that are comercial welders and after talking with them about this application I'm convinced it will do just fine. This is not an FA gun and I don't plan on feeding it enough at one time to turn it red hot and smoke the handguards off it. I have not put it to extreme testing yet and only time will tell. This is only a method that I came up with myself because I wanted it that bad. Well Here goes... Oh my finger! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 (edited) The first thing I did was of course hunt down a Saiga 12 to buy. This part is getting to be one of the hardest parts these days. I found a 19" 2000 model with threaded barrel, IC Choke and BHO right here in the for sale section of this board. Keep your eyes open and one will come along or try Gunbroker or Auction Arms. I was even lucky enough to find a fellow member who lives near me and wanted to sell his brand new one! Thanks Slag! We met FTF and I gave him 550 bucks for the S12 and 5 mags. ouch You gotta pay to play and I wanted this particular model instead of one with a 22" unthreaded barrel I could have gotten for 289 delivered from CDNN. If you get one like that and want it to be like the short model you have to cut the barrel down, thread it for chokes, and then have your gas ports opened up, which requires removing the gas block. I think it's worth it to pay more for what you want to start with. The next hardest thing was tracking down all the parts I wanted to use for my conversion. I already knew exactly what I wanted but I'm cheap and prefer to buy stuff secondhand and save some cash. That means searching for days and days on all the gun boards and finding people who have just what you want and are willing to part with it for a fair price. What you can't find this way I suggest DPH Arms. Scott is a great guy to deal with and he has or can get most everything that Tapco sells (he even buys from them) and his prices are much better because his business is small and he doesn't have the overhead costs they do. I'm all for supporting small biz. Anything they don't have You can get from K Var or Tantal etc. I hear tantal is also great to do business with and has great prices on some hard to find items including Saiga parts. Then all the different money orders and paypal and all that plus shipping charges and a whole lot of waiting and checking the mail and listening for the UPS babe at the door. She's a hottie! There's pics of her in the "off topic" section check her out. <big grin> OMF wink Edited April 13, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 (edited) First thing I bought after the gun was that stockset. I found a Bulgarian set in perfect cond. by asking around on a few different gun boards. A guy on gunsnet had changed over to the evil black look and still had this set with the orig. packaging from K Var it looks like. Evil black guns are awesome and I have several but just like a good dog there's nothing better than black and tan IMO. Then I went to DPH arms for my tapco double hook fcg $35 (old school for that old school look and feel) Single hook works just as well but it only took me an extra couple of minutes to cut out the reciever and get what I wanted. Also from DPH I got the axis pin retainer spring $5 PG nut and screw $6 AK rivet set $6 replacement disconnector spring $4 ( you can reuse the one in your Saiga but you have to tear apart the trigger set to get it out) AKM trigger guard $5 Had to go to K Var for these items: Bulgarian AK gas tube $17 Bulg. lower handguard retainer $15 Bulg .AK sling $5 Got the laser sight and the Imperial M10 Bayo off ebay. If I end up putting a foreign made PG on it I will have to get a custom made US gas piston. There's a guy who makes them for $15 shipped named Hotbarrel. I'll prolly end up makin my own though so it will be custom and US compliant. Still looking for a lug like the ones Tony Rumore was selling. Guess I'll have to make that too. I couldn't find a selector stop plate that wasn't rediculously priced for what it is so I made my own custom one out of a 1/8"steel bracket I had laying around. I'm real proud of that one. I ordered an elevated AK style front sight from rusmilitary a month ago and still haven't seen it. And of course like many others I'm anxiously awaiting my 8 round mag I ordered from Marko in Finland. Rusmilitary in England is supposed to be getting front sights in this week with flash hiders but they won't confirm any details yet. If they don't have something I can use with my threaded barrel I'm either going to make one myself or save up and get one of those Badass Johnny Mac specials! You Da Man Johnny! I picked up a set of clip on AK night sights(low light) at a gun show and I took apart the rear one to use on my homemade rear sight. More on that later. I met the one of the biggest gun nuts in the world Mr. Ted Nugent and got him to autograph the buttstock!! Went something like "Hey Ted you rock dude! Thanks for being the man and speaking up about my gun rights everywhere you go! Could you sign my butt?" For the final touch I got my buddy pistonring8 to beadblast my bolt carrier and make it look like it's supposed to! Thanks dude! Then did a little polishing on it with some polish he sent me. OK bla bla bla bla OMF wink lets get some pics up! Edited April 11, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 (edited) First thing make sure the weapon is unloaded and nothing in chamber. Field strip and put parts in a clean area. Remove the screw that secures the Saiga forarm and sling swivel. Pull down on forarm and then slide off of barrel. Take out the three screws that hold the buttstock on. (one is inside the reciever top rear) Use a rubber mallet to tap under the hand grip area of the buttstock and it will slide right out. No need to remove the blind plug or open the gas system. If you have a rib style sight like I did take a small punch or nail and put it up in the hole behind the adjusting wheel and press up on the release while turning wheel counterclockwise untill it comes loose at the front. Then drive out the small pin holding the rear in and remove. You can use a cutoff wheel to cut the threaded stud that used to thread into the adjusting wheel. Then with a flat file just file it down flush with the block and paint over it. Before filing I masked around it with electrical tape to keep from marring the finish if I slipped. I left the rear rib support to use on my custom sight. More on that later Now your Saiga is "nekkid" and ready to start cutting and drilling on. Oh boy! Time to fire up that most awesome little power tool in the shop. Using a dremel and cutoff wheel cut the lower tang off the rear end of the trigger guard even with the back of the reciever if you plan on reusing it. With a drill and a 3/16" bit carefully drill down into the right hand side of the two rear most FCG pins until you remove enough to allow you to punch them through and out the other side. (*I'm referring to the peened ends of the two smaller pins holding the trigger and linkage in place, NOT the real axis pins holding the hammer and sear*) Don't booger up the holes in the reciever by drilling to far. Look at this link to a very popular Saiga conversion tutorial for details here...or on anything else in my conversion thread you aren't sure about, as far as the basic steps are concerned.... http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/Step_2.htm If you just lightly thin the peened, or swaged ends to where they are thin enough to bend easily, you can then punch them through with a 1/8" punch, and out the opposite side. Once you have the pins punched all the way out you can remove all the internals and put in a clean place.(ziplock bag) Rotate the selector lever all the way up to 12 o'clock position and work it out through the keyhole. From the inside use a punch to start a dimple in the tops of the three rivets now holding the TG in place. Then with a small bit start a pilot hole in each one. Change back to a 3/16" and drill them out untill you can pop the whole TG and cover plate off. Got to the FAQ section where USMC LB has just posted a printable diagram showing the layout of the hole you need to cut next for the PG nut. This is the same diagram I printed off that CD I was talking about earlier. Be warned it is NOT DRAWN TO SCALE so you will have to take measurements to make your marks.Once you have marked the 1/2" square hole you need to cut out on the bottom of the reciever take a small drill bit (I used a 1/8") and drill holes in the four corners with the outsides of the holes being flush with the cut line. Then with the dremel and cutoff wheel connect the four holes along the inside of the cutline. Then with a small triangular file cut in the square corners and trim the hole till it's exactly 1/2" square. The way the PG nut sits in the hole at an angle requires that you file some more off the bottom rear of the hole on an angle till it will fit down in the hole all the way. (bottom meaning outside the rec) Once that's all done it's time to drill holes for your AK or S-12C trigger guard. (if you are reusing the old one refer to The Shiek's tutorial, above) Line up the hole in the rear of the TG with the existing hole in the reciever between the PG nut hole and trigger opening. Using the TG as a template (make sure its not bent first) mark the two or four holes for the front rivets. I used four because I wanted it to look like an AK not a 12C. This where my friend finally showed up with the digital camera and I started taking pics, with some help. Here's my ugly ass using my pool table for a workbench. Edited August 10, 2010 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 Because of the way the mag catch is set up on the S12 if you want to use an AK TG you have to trim some off the front to allow room for your thumb to fit behind the mag catch lever. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 (edited) Next because I chose to use a double hook trigger I had to cut out another identical slot for it on the other side of the rec. I just used a 9/64" drill bit to drill another hole in line with the other side of the square trigger opening and then cut out the other side with the dremel. Edited April 9, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 (edited) After all these holes were cut I cleaned up the rough edges with files and 220 grit sandpaper. Blew it out with air and brushed, wiped all the metal shavings and dust out of the rec. (forgot to mention I plugged the openings to the gas tube and barrel to avoid getting crap in there) Got out my new FCG and dry fitted it to make sure everything worked OK First I had to trim a little bit off the front edge of the trigger between the hooks and also took a little off the reciever because it was hitting there. Then I noticed the Hammer on the new FCG has a big hump on the bottom front that I had to grind off so it would clear the reinforcement bar in the rec. Also had to take some off the right side of the hammer where the axis pin goes through so it would fit in with the BHO lever and still allow room for the axis pin retainer spring or shepard's crook. Likewise I had to take a little bit off the right side of trigger pin sleeve too. Here's a few pics showing the comparison between the double and single hook G2 triggers and the stock Saiga hammer compaired with an unmodified and modified G2 hammer L to R in that order Also I used a replacement disconnector spring shown here so I wouldn't have to get the old one out. Last time that was a bitch! Edited April 9, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2005 (edited) Test fitted the whole FCG assy. with the BHO, or PIA as it should be called, and everything worked awesome. Took everthing back out for final tuning. I like my triggers light and smooth so I used the emory wheel on the dremel and some polish thanks to Pistonring and polished the back edges of the hooks and the underide of the hammer "wings". Put the FCG back in again and tested it. OOOOooohh smooth like the UPS babe's ass! Took it all out and sealed in a ziplock for later. Edited April 9, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 (edited) Next thing I did was take a Bulgarian AK gas tube and cut the HG retainers off of it. That was a real PITA to do without ruining the retainers. First I drilled out the spot welds all the way through the tube on the rear one. If you look at it close you can see where they are, in good light. Then with a cutoff wheel I cut off the top and bottom "lugs" where it locks into the rear sight block. Cut the top one off nice and straight because you're gonna be looking right at it every time you aim the gun. After you cut the bottom one off you can get the hoop spring off the tube. Save this part intact, don't cut it. You can use it in the lower HG for a spring/spacer at the front. After you get all the spot welds cut on the rear retainer cut a slot right down the middle of the underside and right through the gas tube. Then you can use a hammer and screwdriver to drive between the tube and retainer and wedge it loose. This part sucks so go slow and be patient. Once it's broke free you can slide it off the end and straighten it out with needlenose. Don't cut any off the retainer sleeve because you want to save that to bend around the gas tube and hold it in place. The front retainer is a lot easier. Just use a cutoff wheel and cut it around the front nice and straight where it curves out and away from the shoulder of the retainer. It is welded at the very front edge and that part stays on the tube for this application because on the 12 there is only room for the retainer itself behind the gas block. One thing though, when you cut the front one follow the curve around the bottom of the gas tube and leave as much of the bottom as you can so it will look like it wraps all the way around the tube. You can bend the two tabs that are left outward some in order to squeeze it down around the tube when installed. Then just bend them back with needlenose pliers. Edited April 9, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 (edited) I measured the barrel just behind the gas block and cut the lower HG retainer out from the top down with cutoff wheel till it fit tight around the barrel and the back edge of the GB hides the cut. I left enough of the bottom round part on the inside so it fits around the sides of the barrel and gives support and a place to weld. I split the rest of the retainer down through the top of the cleaning rod hole so I could spread it around the wide part of the barrel and spring it into place. With the gun upside down on the rifle rest I test fitted the retainer and marked where the bottom round part overlapped the square part of the GB where the Saiga forarm screws into it. With cutoff wheel I sliced down into this thick part of the GB and stepped it down to the point where the retainer could be fit far enough down. Then with a flat file I rounded the step down to match the curve of the inside of the retainer where it would seat good. Edited April 8, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 (edited) Next take the lower handguard and trim off enough of the rear part so that it will fit into the reciever. I held it up to the side and marked what needed to be cut off above and below the cleaning rod hole so it would fit inside snugly. Cut it with dremel down to my marks and used a wood chisel to flake off the excess. I measured the barrel with calipers and marked down the insides of the HG what needed to be cut out to fit around the larger barrel. The rear of the barrel is wider so you can hold it under and scribe it to get it right. I cut mine to fit tight to help take some of the load off the lower retainer that had to be split and spread around the barrel. Use a dremel and cutoff wheel to cut along the lines on both sides till you get down to the spindle. That's about the right depth to be at the midpoint of where the barrel will be. Go slow from one end to the other and only take off a little at a time or you will get it too hot and burn the HG. Cut along the inside at that depth and peel away the extra wood from the sides with a wood chisel. Then chuck a sanding drum in the dremel and smooth up the rough edges and round out the bottom. Test fit and re- sand untill it goes onto the barrel all the way (level and parallel with the gas tube). Then take the hoop spring from the rear of the AK gas tube and bend it around the cut up gas tube with channel locks to get a smaller curve and push it down in the front of the handguard for a shim/spring. Edited April 9, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 (edited) I forgot to take a pic of the back part of the lower handguard where I trimmed it down to fit the Saiga rec. but here's a pic of the one off my Maadi next to a K Var HG that's the same as the Bulgie as far as material that has to be removed. The Maadi reciever is about the same as the Saiga (original Russian design). Edited April 8, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 The upper handguard needs no trimming to fit luckily Just had to take some pliers and take the bend out of the two spring parts in the metal insert so the retainer would sit down on the gas tube. On an AK the spring is there to give tension against the keeper in the rear sight base. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 cobra, just email me when you are done with this thread, and I will adjust it, lock it, and pin it for you ok? i will also make another thread and tack it to the end of this one when its done for a comment area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Thanks B and thanks to McUzi and the others who requested this. You guys rock! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Once you have all your retainers cut and the gas block notched out dress any rough edges that will show. This is mainly the rear upper retainer. I took mine and carefully held it flat on a belt sander and smoothed out the cut edge that's visible from the rear being careful not to hit any of the painted surface. Or my nuckles! On the lower retainer I took the dremel and a coarse sanding drum and rounded out the inside until it fit the rounded notch in the GB and the barrel pefectly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 (edited) Next it was time to break out the JB Weld. Some people may have their doubts about using this in this application, or any other on a gun for that matter, and although I wouldnt recommend it for anything that has to take extreme heat AND impact, I think it will do just fine for holding on a pair of handguards. When applied properly It's rated at a max temp of 600 degrees and tensile strenght of 3,960 PSI. I don't forsee my barrel and gas tube getting quite that hot. If I want to spray that much lead I have other weapons for that. If anyone thinks this method wouldn't hold up for them they are welcome to find a way to weld the parts on traditionally. It could be done with the right equipment but I don't have that stuff and my welding buds are too busy right now so I thought I would be the ginnea pig and try it. I will post if I notice any problems but she's rockin and rollin just fine now with zero problems. So far I put 2 5rds and 1 8(9) rd mag thru it in quick succession and it got pretty warm but was solid. First you have to grind or sand all surfaces you want to bond with it and make sure they don't have any oil or grease on them. Grind and wipe down with acetone or laquer thinner. Leave deep scratches for it to bond with. Where it squeezes out of the cracks you can wet a finger or something and smooth it over like caulk to fill and hide the cracks and wipe away all excess. I wanted to make real sure the lower HG did not have any movement so I roughed up the lower part of my barrel where it would be hidden by the HG. Mixed up the JB to the right consistencyand applied some to the mating surfaces on the barrel and around the gas block. Put the handguard on and before pushing the front up all the way tap it to back with a hammer to seat it firmly against the reciever. Then spread the retainer just enough to get it around the GB and and press the HG with retainer down into place. Tap backward again to seat and make sure to get the retainer centered. Put a C clamp on it. BE SURE TO PUT SOMETHING ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE CLAMP BETWEEN THE CLAMP AND THE WOOD. I used a folded piece of cardboard and wish I had put more folds in it because it still left a small mark. @$#%! It pays to have someone there to help with this part. I was doing it by myself and eventually got pissed and impatient. Thats why the cardboard came unfolded. Finally I got tired of hearing the wife calling me to dinner and got her to come help hold the clamp and tighten it. The front side isn't as important because you can tighten the clamp down on the sling loop. You only need to use enough JB so that a little squeezes out to "caulk" it with. Do this as described and and clean up excess and leave to dry overnight. The directions say at least 15 hrs. I left it overnight and went back to work next morn putting the upper HG on but left the clamp on for another day to be sure. Edited August 11, 2006 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 (edited) On the upper HG I think I already covered bending the springs in the insert so it will clamp onto the barrel but fit all the way down with no spring. Do that and put in the insert. Don't be like dumbass Sadam and put you upper HG on backwards! LOL! It goes on with the spring insert toward the rear and the smaller end to the front. With a file take off the paint and get down in the bare metal where the front retainer is going to go right behind the gas block. After you have sanded down to bare metal all the inner surfaces of the retainers that will contact metal (got to get the blueing off for the JB to bond good), bend the small tabs out just enough to squeeze it around the gas tube. [Hint It's easier to put both these retainers on, especially the back one, if you put them on over the small part where the flutes are in the tube and then slide into postion.] Put the rear one on first and slide it back out of the way being careful not to scratch the tube where it will show behind the HG. Put the front retainer on and slide upper HG in behind it where it will be. Slide rear one into place and with a pencil mark the gas tube around the rear retainer. Take the handguard off and with the rear retainer sitting where it's going to go, use some channel locks to bend the sleeve up tight around the tube. Carefully move it back out of the way just on the other side of the line you made. Remember no scratches. With a flat file get the paint off the area where the retainer will be bonding to gas tube (from the line forward about 1 1/4 "). Wipe all raw steel with thinner to remove any oils. Mix up a batch of JB Weld and put some (sparingly) around the back edge of the gas block where it will be hidden by the retainer. Bend the tabs straight so it encircles the bottom of the tube and slide it into place in the goo. Get it centered perfect and pack some more up inside where it touches. Be careful not to get any up in the part where the HG seats in the retainer or you will have to trim it to fit in. Clean up the front of the retainer, smooth a nice bead around joint, and wipe off excess. Once you have that done and centered good then gob some more JB around the area where the rear one goes (only where it will be hidden above the bottom edge of HG) and smear it evenly. Put it on generously so it will squish up into the holes you drilled in it to take out the spot welds. Snap on the HG and seat it up into the front. Slide the rear into place and get it centered perfect. You're done! Let it dry. Remember you only have 5 to 10 minutes to do all this once you start because the hardener kicks in and it sets up. It's probably a good idea to mix a small amount for the front and then another for the rear when you are ready. Ok pics. Edited April 10, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 While all this was drying I decided to work on making my rear sight. All that was left after I removed the sight rib was the rear base with the wings. That would probably be all you need to shoot clays and birds on the fly but I wanted something a little more fine tuned to shoot slugs at targets up to 100 yds away and I have a front AK sight on the way so I got inventive. Another option would of course be to drive the sight base out of the dovetail groove and get a rear pistol sight that can be fit but I'm on a small budget here and I wanted it to be custom and like no other. I also wanted something that would be adjustable for shooting right up close or far away. Had a killer idea to use the little cut off rear tang from the back of the Saiga trigger guard as a rear ghost ring sight. The finish already matches and it fits right into the small groove behind the rear sight base. I bored it out a little larger with a grinding drum on the dremel. I put a very small amount of JB Weld on the bottom edge and put it down into the groove with the angle facing forward and resting right against the wings of the sight base. Then I made sure it was centered perfectly on the rear sight base. [Note: my S-12 was already sighted in good enough to put slugs in a telephone book at 80 yds with the sight rib so I won't need to adjust for windage] The AK front sight has side to side adjustment so I can fine tune if necessary. The ghost ring will get me on paper but I still wanted something smaller and adjustable to go with it. I had a clip on night sight for an AK so I took it apart and modified it to fit between the wings and pivot on it's original axis pin that I put through the old pin hole from the sight rib. I had to make a spring platform to push up on it from below and keep it on setting. I used the original spring that was in the same position under the Saiga sight rib and made a platform from a piece of a hacksaw blade. I cut a square piece from the blade that would sit down inside the rear sight base under the flip up sight. Then I polished the face to a high gloss to make it smooth. On the bottom side I drilled a dimple in the center to act as a spring keeper and keep it in place. I filed the sight flat across the bottom so it would sit up straight and filed another bevel on it at 45 degrees for a halfway setting. Then I filed a vertical V shaped groove in the bottom of the face in the center. Had to use a small dremel grinder like a chainsaw sharpener to lower the U notch and get it down where I needed it to be. Now it's a three position flip up sight. With the sight flipped down you can see a full round window in the ghost ring and a tiny notch at the bottom. On halfway you can see the U notch about halfway in the round picture and the bottom of the U is about 1/4 the way up. Then when all the way up you can see just the width of the U notch and the bottom's about half the circle of the ghost ring. I think it turned out pretty cool. Only problem is when I cut it down to fit it got hot and baked the low light paint out of the sight. I'm probably nuclear now! I'll just get some irridescent paint and fill it back in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 (edited) After painting the bottom of the reciever to cover up all the bare metal I let it dry overnight. At this point I was ready to attach my trigger guard and put this baby back together. I made a tool to buck rivets so it would look like a real AK with no screws. I had a piece of steel !/2"x 1" x 9" and cut a notch in one end so it would lay flat in the reciever and fit up under the reinforcement bar at the front yet still have enough play to go over the end of the rivets sticking through on the inside. I made two more notches in the sides of it to clear the rivets in the sides of the reciever. Then I cut it in half to use part of it for a driver. I drilled a dimple in the end of a 3/8" bolt and ground it round in the shape of a rivet head. Edited April 10, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 (edited) I could not find a selector stop to buy anywhere. I wouldn't pay that much anyway for a bent piece of steel with 4 holes in it so I decided to make my own. Another reason is I wanted mine to stick up as far as the one does on an AK. If you have never noticed, when the safety is on and the selector is against the stop on the Saiga, the end of the selector lever hangs down below the reciever. This is not necessary. After you do the conversion and replace the fcg the lever only needs to come down just far enough to partly hide the hammer axis pin and it will fire. I had a 1/8" steel bracket laying around that was already bent 90 degrees so I made a paper template of what I wanted and traced it onto the steel with the bent part forming the stop. Got a creative urge and made the stop part of it shaped like a skull to really make mine stand out in the crowd! I'm sure no one has done that before! "Skelector stop"! Cut it out with a hacksaw and used the dremel to grind the edges smooth and sand. Put finishing touches on it with a small rat tail file and polished the skull part with the dremel and emory wheel. Then buffed it with pistonring's polish and marked and drilled the holes for the rivets. With a diamond point engraver in the dremel I engraved eyes and nostrils in the skull. Used a sharp knife to cut lines into it for teeth and spray painted it all black. Before the paint was all dry I wiped the paint off the polished skull face and left the engraved parts blacked out. SWEET! When you take it off safe and thump the skull with the lever it's in kill mode! I almost made this part in the shape of a cobra. That will be my next one! Edited April 10, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 (edited) Notice I had to file a notch in the front to clear the mag catch. AK Fever How bad have you got it? Edited April 10, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Finally it was time to rivet the TG on. I ordered my rivets in a kit that was supposed to include all the ones needed to build an AK from a flat. Got it from DPH Arms. They Rock! After compairing the size of the rivet heads to the ones on my S410 and AK they looked slightly larger so I chucked them in a drill and filed them down to where they looked right. I put the skelector stop plate and the trigger guard in place and put the rear two of the 4 front rivets in the holes. Also put the one in the back of the TG to keep spring tension on the front ones so they wouldn't fall out when I turned the reciever over. I put the gun in my vise using some wood on either side and a rag to protect the finish. Only tightened it up enough to hold in place. You don't want to compress and deform the reciever. It's helpful to have another person around for this to help hold something if you need it. I used an adjustble support roller with a pad to support the barrel and keep it level. I put the bolt I modified under one of the front rivets and loosened the vice enough to let it slide down and seat the rivet head in the end of the bolt with the bolt sitting solidly on the bottom of the vice and pointing straight up. With something wedged between the bottom of the boards to keep them from collapsing. I tightened the vice to hold the reciever loosely but straight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 (edited) The next part I think is key to successfully bucking the rivets with this home made setup. My father in law who has worked in steel all his life suggested I heat the ends of the rivets before bucking to make it easier. This worked like a charm. I have a small butaine "pencil torch" I scored at Northern Tools for cheap and used it to heat them up just before bucking. This softened the steel and made it easy. Edited April 10, 2005 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted April 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 I put the flame to it for about 10 or 15 seconds and slid my bucking tool all the way in as far as it would go and on top of the rivet. I shimmed up the back of it with a nut to keep it level in the reciever. I put the driver bar down on it as close as possible to the front and side over the rivet and hit it a few times with a 4 pound hammer. Using heat you could probably get away with a smaller ball peen hammer but I wanted to make sure I got it the first time. This worked great so I repeated the process on the other front rivet. Then did the rivet in the back of the TG. With these 3 rivets it is plenty strong enought to hold the TG on. Since I chose to use 4 front rivets and the two very front ones are pretty hard to get at I simply drove those two into undersized holes and left it at that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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