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corbin

Legal HG for the Draco?

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Hi guys

 

I recently picked up a Draco and it's one of the funnest things to shoot I own, next to my Saiga 12. Fireballs are awesome and it hasn't jammed once. I've installed an Ultimak and will be installing an Aimpoint T1.

 

Draco.jpg

 

Recently, a new member posted this pic of their S-12 with an interesting handguard on it:

 

post-22695-12681149938593_thumb.jpg

 

I've since found out that it's an angled fore end made by Magpul. Here's a collage I made of some better pics:

 

Angled.jpg

 

 

My question is, do you think a forearm like this would constitute a "pistol grip" on a Draco pistol, and hence make it an AOW?

 

 

Thanks for your opinions.

 

 

 

Corbin

 

 

*edited* Changed the name Promag to Magpul. Sorry for the mix up.

Edited by Corbin

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Is it sold as a "grip"?

 

As everyone just LOOOOOOVVES to point out, "intent" is everything.

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Is it sold as a "grip"?

 

 

 

I think they market it as an "Angled fore arm". No mention of vertical grip. I don't think it's meant to put your thumb through the hole even. I'm not going to post a link to the site, but it's Magpul. Easy enough to find.

 

 

*edited wrong name*

Edited by Corbin

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do you think a forearm like this would constitute a "pistol grip" on a Draco pistol, and hence make it an AOW?

 

it's not what anyone on this forum thinks if it is or isn't, it's what the ATF says if it is or isn't. I, myself, wouldn't chance it, I don't have the 10s of thousands of dollars laying around for attorney fees. and I know that the defense, "but you're honor, the consensus on a gun forum says it's not a verticle grip" won't fly.

 

if you want to real to know contact the ATF technical branch and get it in writing.

Edited by Matthew Hopkins

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Is it sold as a "grip"?

 

 

 

I think they market it as an "Angled fore arm". No mention of vertical grip. I don't think it's meant to put your thumb through the hole even. I'm not going to post a link to the site, but it's Promag. Easy enough to find.

Dude, you've just insulted MagPul.

 

ProMag doesn't innovate, they steal copy other's innovations.

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if you want to real to know contact the ATF technical branch and get it in writing.

. . and then you can still go to jail when they perjure themselves and state that they never wrote anything . . .

 

 

If they want you, they're gonna get you.

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Corbin what you're referring to is the magpul AFG i have one on most of my rifles. I'm a little leery to put one on the draco though.

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Yep, you're right. My bad. I called it a Promag instead of a Magpul. I had just spent a while reading up on Promag's Saiga 12 drums and their name must've still been in my head. Sorry.

 

 

The Magpul AFG is what it is.

 

 

I just might write the ATF a letter and ask. Vitamink, do you have one on a Saiga rifle? If so, how do you like it?

 

 

Corbin

Edited by Corbin

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I wouldent do it... Looks to be almost a grip, would make it look almost like a AOW... and almost is good enough to getcha to the station.

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I couldn't find the pic of that one guy's Draco that he painted orange to disguise it as a toy, so it's the best I could do.

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Magpul officially calls it an Angled Fore Grip. Key word GRIP. You might be alright using a handstop on your rail but since Magpul called it the AFG, I'd be leery of putting it on the Draco. The handstop may even get you in trouble.

A group of friends and I were fortunate to conduct some evals on the AFG for Magpul. We shot it on multiple platforms from ARs to AKs, and my S-12, and multiple brand rails. It's a nice product, not for me, felt awkward on all weapons. I am too used to a Vertical Fore Grip I guess. It also had some clearance issues with some quad rails ranging from not fitting with certain types of rail covers on the sides to not clearing other accessories mounted on side rails.

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Interesting interpetation of wording here. i think it would be worth writing a letter to the ATF about. It doesnt have a grip in the traditional sense and is still part of the forearm itself with more than one point of contact. Its not something i would use since it looks very akward but who knows.

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Here is a picture on my Maadi and on my RRA, then a closeup on the RRA. Sorry this took so long Corbin...the "attach" button wasn't available the other day for some reason. The Ak has a midwest ind. rail forend and a TWS dogleg rail. I took the light off so AK so you can see what it looks like. The AFG spans the entire length of the MI rail and looks as though it came like that.

 

post-18659-12696590190345_thumb.jpeg

post-18659-12696589978969_thumb.jpeg

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i'm pretty sure it has been hashed out with the ar pistol guys that the magpul afg is a no no

 

 

 

edit to add......aow

Edited by elia.jon1

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Gonna throw on some fatigues and carry it in a State Park now? :lolol:

 

 

Ummmmmm.....NO! :smoke:

 

 

Maybe if I paint the muzzle orange? :lolol: Just kidding.

 

 

i'm pretty sure it has been hashed out with the ar pistol guys that the magpul afg is a no no

 

 

 

edit to add......aow

 

 

 

Yeah, I was going to try and check out one of the AR forums, but never did. If I was going to AOW it, I'd just have a regular vertical grip. But I'm more likely to just do the paperwork and SBR it (once MI allows SBRs). At that point, it won't matter.

 

 

Thanks guys

 

 

 

Alia.Jon....... You don't happen to be from MI do you? The reason I ask is a guy I used to shoot with is named Jon and his daughter is named Alia.

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Gonna throw on some fatigues and carry it in a State Park now? :lolol:

 

 

Ummmmmm.....NO! :smoke:

 

 

Maybe if I paint the muzzle orange? :lolol: Just kidding.

 

 

i'm pretty sure it has been hashed out with the ar pistol guys that the magpul afg is a no no

 

 

 

edit to add......aow

 

 

 

Yeah, I was going to try and check out one of the AR forums, but never did. If I was going to AOW it, I'd just have a regular vertical grip. But I'm more likely to just do the paperwork and SBR it (once MI allows SBRs). At that point, it won't matter.

 

 

Thanks guys

 

 

 

Alia.Jon....... You don't happen to be from MI do you? The reason I ask is a guy I used to shoot with is named Jon and his daughter is named Alia.

Since it was originally manufactured and sold as a pistol, IIRC, you cannot SBR it. Same goes for putting a buttstock on those AR pistols. I'd check on that.

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Since it was originally manufactured and sold as a pistol, IIRC, you cannot SBR it. Same goes for putting a buttstock on those AR pistols. I'd check on that.

I'm sorry, but you have it backwards.

 

You can make a rifle out of a pistol, but you can't make a pistol out of a rifle.

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How about one of these for a pistol? Called a hand stop.

 

l_573000052_1.jpg

 

Those are always brought up in Arfcom's AR Pistol subforum too.

 

Personally, I'd stay away from anything protruding below the handguard on a pistol. Just my $.02 on the matter.

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I would say write a letter to the ATF and wait. Until they tell you that the AFG is specifically okay to use on a pistol, don't do it.

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I would say write a letter to the ATF and wait. Until they tell you that the AFG is specifically okay to use on a pistol, don't do it.

. . and then wait until some other doofus writes to them and gets whatever they told you reversed. Then where are you?

 

 

It's easy to follow the law.

 

Does adding that "sex toy" make the pistol "designed to be used with two hands"?

 

 

For those of you who say "don't add anything", think about this: With the existing forearm, you are using two hands to hold and fire the pistol. Does that make your Draco illegal?

 

 

I mean, c'mon and be honest, how many times have you seen someone shooting their Draco like this?

 

olympic_pistol_trng.jpg

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For those of you who say "don't add anything", think about this: With the existing forearm, you are using two hands to hold and fire the pistol. Does that make your Draco illegal?

 

Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying.

 

But for me personally? I'll stay away from anything protruding beneath the forearm of a handgun/pistol, that could be construed as a "vertical grip" of any kind.

 

YMMV

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What about a flashlight that can have it's angle adjusted? Would that be illegal. Many people have flashlights on their pistols. What do you guys think about that?

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What about a flashlight that can have it's angle adjusted? Would that be illegal. Many people have flashlights on their pistols. What do you guys think about that?

 

Me personally? I'd feel fine putting a light on a handgun/pistol. It's the grips/handstops/etc that I'm talking about me staying away from.

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