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Any reason why Izmash is staying out of the AK 7.62x39 pistol market i


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This seems like such an easy choice if nothing legal is holding them back. A saiga AK pistol with a Russian factory Izmash pistol grip, muzzle comp, a trigger group you don't need to replace, no 922r compliance necessary, and ready to rock with a regular high cap mag well.

Just by setting the retail price where the Romanian Draco is currently would immediately dominate the market share for the niche and force Century to lower the retail price on the Draco to at least half of the saiga pistol. I know I would buy a few right away.

Anyone got some solid reasoning on why Izmash is staying on the sidelines on this?

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I believe that agreement signed between Clinton and Yeltsin back in the 90s prohibits (among other things) any pistols made in Russia from being imported into the U.S.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pulling up the Clinton Arms Export Control Act list of prohibited guns is a migraine headache. Having seen the Baikal Makarov's pop up

for sale used now and then, I wouldn't have thought they were discontinued in 1996. Now you got me wondering if spare parts are included

among the prohibited items.

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The clinton ban wasnt only banning imports from Russia. So I wouldnt think that would apply.

 

In addition to the so-called AWB Clinton signed into law in 1994 (and which thankfully sunsetted in 2004), sometime during the 1990s (I forget exactly when) Clinton also signed a separate agreement individually with Yeltsin regarding firearms imports from Russia to the U.S., which effectively banned the importation of certain Russian made firearms (including, I'm pretty certain, any handguns made in Russia). This agreement is still in effect and will remain in effect unless some future presidents of both the U.S. and Russia agree to end it (so in other words it will remain in effect forever :ded:).

 

The Clinton-Yeltsin agreement is also why we don't see any new Izhmash made Dragunov pattern rifles (SVD or Tigr) here in the U.S., because the Dragunov was one of the firearms specifically banned by the Clinton-Yeltsin agreement. If I remember right the only Russian made firearms the agreement allows to be imported into the U.S. are all longarms, and specifically only those of the Saiga line, the Vepr line, and some non-self-loading long arms, like the bolt-action LOS line of rifles.

 

 

 

 

Pulling up the Clinton Arms Export Control Act list of prohibited guns is a migraine headache. Having seen the Baikal Makarov's pop up for sale used now and then, I wouldn't have thought they were discontinued in 1996. Now you got me wondering if spare parts are included among the prohibited items.

 

I still see Russian military Makarov's popping up from time to time on the U.S. market as well, but both they and the Baikal Makarovs never show up in significant numbers, and they are often sold as being at least slightly used, so I think all the Russian made Makarov's floating around in the U.S. today, are all ones that were imported before the Clinton-Yeltsin agreement took effect. I don't know about spare parts. I know some spare Dragunov parts like Dragunov magazines, bolts, and sights can still be imported, so I suppose it's possible some Makarov spare parts could still be legally imported as well, but definitely not receivers, and probably not barrels either.

Edited by Frogfoot
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The clinton ban wasnt only banning imports from Russia. So I wouldnt think that would apply.

 

In addition to the so-called AWB Clinton signed into law in 1994 (and which thankfully sunsetted in 2004), sometime during the 1990s (I forget exactly when) Clinton also signed a separate agreement individually with Yeltsin regarding firearms imports from Russia to the U.S., which effectively banned the importation of certain Russian made firearms (including, I'm pretty certain, any handguns made in Russia). This agreement is still in effect and will remain in effect unless some future presidents of both the U.S. and Russia agree to end it (so in other words it will remain in effect forever).

 

The Clinton-Yeltsin agreement is also why we don't see any newly made Izhmash Dragunov pattern rifles (SVD or Tigr) here in the U.S., because the Dragunov was one of the firearms specifically banned by the Clinton-Yeltsin agreement. If I remember right the only Russian made firearms the agreement allows to be imported into the U.S. are all longarms, and specifically only those of the Saiga line, the Vepr line, and some non-self-loading long arms, like the bolt-action LOS rifle.

 

He also banned all chinese ammo, chinese semiauto anything, and chinese hand guns.

Add to that the 1998 high capacity import ban which currently makes it illegal to import a high capacity ready rifle or to use a high capacity mag

in the post 1998 rifles, unless of course you follow the 922r parts compliance from the 1968 GCA law.

He was working on trying to force all handguns into a national registry but fortunately Congress was no longer a Democrat majority by that time.

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Hrm well I just guess I figured at the prices I have seen some of the Russian handguns floating around they would be more expensive if they were pre ban. Honestly I guess I thought all "bs" that expired along with the 90s "bans" guess thats pretty shitty, good tid bit of info. Thats what I get for assuming.

 

Ol Yeltsin must have been hitting the vodka too hard that day, what a dip-shit.

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I still see Russian military Makarov's popping up from time to time on the U.S. market as well, but both they and the Baikal Makarovs never show up in significant numbers, and they are often sold as being at least slightly used, so I think all the Russian made Makarov's floating around in the U.S. today, are all ones that were imported before the Clinton-Yeltsin agreement took effect. I don't know about spare parts. I know some spare Dragunov parts like Dragunov magazines, bolts, and sights can still be imported, so I suppose it's possible some Makarov spare parts could still be legally imported as well, but definitely not receivers, and probably not barrels either.

If the Russian arm has been out of Russia for 5 years, it can be imported here.

 

That is where a lot of "Russian" arms come from - other countries where they've been sitting in warehouses.

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He also banned all chinese ammo, chinese semiauto anything, and chinese hand guns.

Add to that the 1998 high capacity import ban which currently makes it illegal to import a high capacity ready rifle or to use a high capacity mag in the post 1998 rifles, unless of course you follow the 922r parts compliance from the 1968 GCA law. He was working on trying to force all handguns into a national registry but fortunately Congress was no longer a Democrat majority by that time.

 

Yeah I almost forgot about all those other pointless, useless, BS firearms restrictions Clinton also pushed through while he was in office, though it reminds me of my peronal favorite Clintonism, when he got the ATF to declare that the USAS-12 & Stryker-12/Protecta, which had been around for years, were now suddenly Destructive Devices under the NFA. I heard Clinton even tried to get the ATF to declare that bullpup variation of the Mossberg 500/590 a DD as well, but apparently even the ATF thought trying to declare a pump action 12 gauge as a DD was a bit much. Nicely sums up just how far off the deep end Willy boy went with his anti-self-defense rights scheming, when he reached the point of coming up with BS even the ATF wouldn't go along with.

 

 

 

Hrm well I just guess I figured at the prices I have seen some of the Russian handguns floating around they would be more expensive if they were pre ban. Honestly I guess I thought all "bs" that expired along with the 90s "bans" guess thats pretty shitty, good tid bit of info. Thats what I get for assuming.

 

 

Ol Yeltsin must have been hitting the vodka too hard that day, what a dip-shit.

 

The rumor I heard was Yeltsin believed Russian soldiers (who in the 1990s were lucky if they got paid once every several months) would start stealing and selling off any firearms from army depots that could easily be resold on the legitimate U.S. firearms market (like say Makarovs), since there was then (as now) a big market in the U.S. for authentic Russian made firearms, particularly ones that were rare in the U.S. (like Dragunovs). In fairness to Yeltsin, that probably was a legitimate concern at the time, but Yeltsin definitely made a mistake in agreeing to make the time period of the agreement indefinite. These days Russia's economy has recovered enough that black marketeering by soldiers is (at least in the big picture) a minor problem, and Izhmash could be making even more in the U.S. if they could sell Makarovs and Dragunovs here too, but the Clinton-Yeltsin agreement is still in effect so they can't. Sometimes I've wondered how much money Izhmash misses out on every year due to all the firearms they can't sell in the U.S. because of Yeltsin. However much it is, I doubt Izhmash is happy about it.

 

 

If the Russian arm has been out of Russia for 5 years, it can be imported here.

 

That is where a lot of "Russian" arms come from - other countries where they've been sitting in warehouses.

 

Oh yeah that's right, I forgot about the 5 year rule if its Russian made arms being surplused from some other country. Someone should buy a warehouse full of Dragunovs from Izhmash, park them in Finland or some other country for 5 years, and then ship them stateside. In the U.S. even at wholesale/distributor prices they would still easily sell for at least twice what it cost to buy them from Izhmash and get them shipped over. A 5-year investment with a 100% profit margin seems like a pretty good deal to me. Too bad these days I'm only making just enough to cover life's four necessities (rent, food, gas, ammo), so it's an investment opportunity I guess I'll have to pass on for now :(.

Edited by Frogfoot
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  • 5 months later...

If the Russian arm has been out of Russia for 5 years, it can be imported here.

That is where a lot of "Russian" arms come from - other countries where they've been sitting in warehouses.

 

What about barreled receivers being on the restriction list? Apparently, the ATF classifies them as neither a pistol nor long gun if it has never been built into a gun.

Any reason why xyz company can't import russian barreled receiver incomplete guns and once they get here finish them into pistols if they never were officially a long gun?

Just curious.

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If the Russian arm has been out of Russia for 5 years, it can be imported here.

That is where a lot of "Russian" arms come from - other countries where they've been sitting in warehouses.

 

What about barreled receivers being on the restriction list? Apparently, the ATF classifies them as neither a pistol nor long gun if it has never been built into a gun.

Any reason why xyz company can't import russian barreled receiver incomplete guns and once they get here finish them into pistols if they never were officially a long gun?

Just curious.

They probably could - BUT - guess who marks the form 6 "yay" or "nay"? Hint: the acronym used to have 4 letters and then went to 5. Now that they've been rolled into DHS (and no longer handle two of the initials), who knows how many letters. . .

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They probably could - BUT - guess who marks the form 6 "yay" or "nay"? Hint: the acronym used to have 4 letters and then went to 5. Now that they've been rolled into DHS (and no longer handle two of the initials), who knows how many letters. . .

 

The 5 letter agency seems to be ok with dracos and if nothing else it might be the only possible path from Russia.

 

Damm now just who could make this happen? Hmmmmmm

Edited by my762buzz
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Though it'd be ideal, I'm not holding my breath hoping that Izhmash will get into the AK pistol market anytime soon.

 

So, lately I'd been considering getting a Draco again... but after looking at a few other possibilities, I'm tempted to pick up a SLR-107CR, (Bulgarian made), instead, since all you'd have to do once your form 1 is approved is cut and crown the barrel down to ~12.5", (same length as the Draco).

 

That model, (the SLR-107CR), seems to be about as close as one could come to a Russian-quality (potential) SBR in that barrel length.

 

I'd almost rather have a SLR-107UR, but holy shit are they expensive, (when you can find one for sale at all). <_<

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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Though it'd be ideal, I'm not holding my breath hoping that Izhmash will get into the AK pistol market anytime soon.

 

So, lately I'd been considering getting a Draco again... but after looking at a few other possibilities, I'm tempted to pick up a SLR-107CR, (Bulgarian made), instead, since all you'd have to do once your form 1 is approved is cut and crown the barrel down to ~12.5", (same length as the Draco).

 

That model, (the SLR-107CR), seems to be about as close as one could come to a Russian-quality (potential) SBR in that barrel length.

 

I'd almost rather have a SLR-107UR, but holy shit are they expensive, (when you can find one for sale at all). <_<

Have you considered a Virgin Yugo m92 kit? Its the only real battle tested 7.62x39 krink.

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