Saiga 5.45X39 Ballistic Testing

[Paulry 50]

This will be an ongoing post of the Saiga 5.45x39 rifle and cartridge ballistic performance in all types of medium. I will start this out by saying I've been a hard core shooter for 30 years. I've shot just about everything out there. Some by the 10's of thousands! And in all my experience I have NEVER seen a solid bullet perform like what I've seen with the 5.45x39. I plan on shooting all kinds of this this summer and posting the photos. This could be posted in a different section but everyone with this rifle has always stated a desire to know what it can and can't do. I don't think I'll post many paper targets here as I'm not the best shot. If anyone else does ballistic testing with their Saiga 5.45x39, post the photos here.

 

Now to the photos: I was shooting the Silver Bear 60 gr FMJ at about 20 yards. We shot into large plastic coffee cans with soft dirt. The 5.45x39 would sail right through them and I was desperate to capture a bullet. So I put an old 4x4 in-front and on the first shot the bullet went into the wood with a small round hole and came out SIDEWAYS! we had a perfect sideways (yes call it keyhole) bullet profile in the front side of the first can and the bullet did not make it through the first can. We were able to capture 3 bullets and they were very deformed. I wanted to shoot water but the locale creek was not flowing and I did not bring any so this is all we have for now.

 

The most stunning thing was just shooting the dirt in the cans the bullets would do the screwiest things! The would go in and fly out sideways! I'll hold judgment until I shoot 4" of water first followed by dirt (next time) But to Jim D's question of the 5.45x39 for defense, I'd say for now, YES this is potent! I have some Wolf 60 gr hollow points (you know the HP goes in 1/2"!) and I'll do side by side testing with FMJ next time. I had my young son out shooting for the first time this year and I didn't have much time to spend down range. More to come.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Fluid Power

[Donkismash 81]

sweet post...been searching for info on this round...I cant wait for Hornady 60gr Vmax to hit the shelves....

 

 

also +1 for teaching the boy how to shoot right the First time

[Paulry 50]

Thanks! I have a 3x9 Simmons on his Rossi 22lr single shot (xmas presant 2 years ago) he shoots it like a jack hammer. This one is a chip off the old block!

 

 

 

[jimdigriz 580]

sweet post...been searching for info on this round...I cant wait for Hornady 60gr Vmax to hit the shelves....

 

I'm not sure it's going to be much more than a varmint bullet. From the information on Hornady's website, it doesn't seem to have enough penetration.

[Paulry 50]

Jim D.

I'm looking to really shake out the Wolf 60gr HP. I've shot a box and they are hot! I have to believe the deep HP is going to help it do something. I had a later than desired start to the range and had the boy and no water but I have a bunch of quart sized OJ bottles to shoot. I would like to see what 4" of water do to this cartridge. From what I saw in dirt and on line video, I wonder if it even makes it through the first dirt can before it tumbles right or left.

 

I recommend you try the Wolf 60 gr HP for your self.

 

Frosty

 

edit: How can a pencil like bullet turn sideways in a matter of inches? This is a complete mystery to me. As I said after all these years, I can't remember such a thing happening. And I've seen it all.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Fluid Power

[BrutalGardener 205]

edit: How can a pencil like bullet turn sideways in a matter of inches? This is a complete mystery to me. As I said after all these years, I can't remember such a thing happening. And I've seen it all.

 

Didn't the Soviets intentionally design these bullets with a misplaced center of gravity, in order to make them very unstable and tumble like crazy?

[Paulry 50]

edit: How can a pencil like bullet turn sideways in a matter of inches? This is a complete mystery to me. As I said after all these years, I can't remember such a thing happening. And I've seen it all.

 

Didn't the Soviets intentionally design these bullets with a misplaced center of gravity, in order to make them very unstable and tumble like crazy?

 

Yes, but these tumble way more than I've read or could imagine. Like I said half a revolution in less than 1" to 1-1/2" of soft wood? WTF! If you look at the photo of the wood and coffee cans you will see the light fresh exit of a sideways bullet. If you look at the bottom right of the rear can you can see damage from a bullet traveling at right angles to the shot!

[superA 289]

Thanks for doing this. The world could use more info on the Russian calibers.

[mgconnor13 206]

Here is a diagram of ballistic test. 5.45x39 has an air bubble in the nose with lead behind it and then a steel core in the back. This creates a round that is very heavy in the back end which tends to yaw very quickly on impact.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Rusty truck

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Nice photos, elvis, can't wait to see more. I am now able to shoot wet phone books, but can't find a damn phone book now!

[jimdigriz 580]

Yes, but these tumble way more than I've read or could imagine. Like I said half a revolution in less than 1" to 1-1/2" of soft wood? WTF!

 

I've read that you expect two full revolutions on average when traveling through a human body.

 

Thanks for the testing. It's always nice to see real world scenarios.

[martilyo 1]

Excellent report! i think the 5.45 is highly underrated because all the news is always about the AR15 and the .223 round. I found the 5.45 has less recoil than my AR and is far easier to clean and disassemble.

[Paulry 50]

Nice photos, elvis, can't wait to see more. I am now able to shoot wet phone books, but can't find a damn phone book now!

 

 

Shoot a wet cell phone!

 

[Paulry 50]

Excellent report! i think the 5.45 is highly underrated because all the news is always about the AR15 and the .223 round. I found the 5.45 has less recoil than my AR and is far easier to clean and disassemble.

 

 

Now that I have my digital cable connected correctly I watch "Wednesday Night At The Range" on the Outdoor Network (sweet). I saw a three gun guy (one of the best) using the AK74 in 5.45x39. I truly believe this caliber has almost no recoil! And is plenty accurate. Hell this guy's up against all the best AR guys. What does he know?

 

Frosty

Edited April 9, 2010 by Fluid Power

[Paulry 50]

OK, it looks like this weekend will be a go for more 5.45x39 Ballistic testing.

 

UP DATE!!!!!!

 

I got a heavy steel plate from a customer for testing! I'll do video and camera shots and post.

 

The white round plate I shot with a 16" .223 Saiga. (the bigger dents are from a 9mm) I'll do side by side with these as well!

 

Let the shooting begin!

 

 

 

Frosty

Edited May 14, 2010 by Fluid Power

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Nice! Can't wait to see some 5.45 on steel.

[paprotective 362]

I dunno that square plate looks like 1/2-5/8"... Make sure your a safe distance back from it.

The 5.45 may just 'ding' it. If you got a 7.62x39 laying around also to compare all 3 that would surely rock.

 

5.45 HP I think will stop the 5.45FMJ may zing thru..

 

can't wait.. (and thanks Fluid)

[Krom 36]

Bump, I love this topic!

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

I dunno that square plate looks like 1/2-5/8"... Make sure your a safe distance back from it.

The 5.45 may just 'ding' it. If you got a 7.62x39 laying around also to compare all 3 that would surely rock.

 

5.45 HP I think will stop the 5.45FMJ may zing thru..

 

can't wait.. (and thanks Fluid)

 

Yeah that is a really good point.

[Red Square 0]

the 5.45 is a awesome round Iam sure it will do well in your test fire.

 

The 5.45 7N6 identified by a red band, this is what are currently being imported into the us. Its the first gen. of these penetrator rounds. and does have tendency to ricochet. The later gen. rounds have larger heavier steel penetrator minimizing ricochet. The latest 4th. gen. is the 7N24 with a tungsten carbide penetrator.the russians have deemed the original 7n6 obsolete and are now getting rid of the older 7n6 penetrator rounds.

 

wikipedia has a great amount of information on these rounds http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.45x39mm

I also found these videos on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqaeX2KigSc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMRlWkFiSPk

[Paulry 50]

OK, It was a blast at the range today. Beautiful weather!

The plate is a 1/2" thick and 9" wide by 12.5" tall. My customer pulled it off the rack in the weld shop. (Ya, I bought the beer!).

 

The range was 50 yards set up against the large tractor tires.

 

I used Russian surplus from factory 270 from 1983, is shoots great and looks brand new. I bought it from Sportsman's Guide. This was the first time out with the 5.45x39 Saiga after installing the Bullet Guide (that's another story). The rifle shot great and worked like a charm.

 

I shot the 5.45x39 first the bullets are 53 grain with steel core. I was surprised by the outcome, I thought it would zip through.

 

As a reference, I shot the Saiga .223 with a 20" barrel. I shot Wolf 55 grain, Wolf 75 grain and Winchester white box 5.56x45 (looks very mil spec) 55 grain and it shoots hot.

 

The top shots are the 5.45x39 (not as big or deep)

 

The lower shots are the .223, the larger deeper ones are the Winchester 55 grain

 

One thing I liked was the 5.45x39 is very accurate! Check out the photos. I have video and will post that soon.

 

The range got too busy to get to water and sand to it will have to wait!

 

Frosty

[Paulry 50]

More photos

 

Look at the rear of the plate, you would be safe behind this stuff.

 

 

 

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Awesome photos, thanks a lot for doing the testing. I am very interested in seeing the 5.45 against a couple wet phone books at 50 yards. Do you take requests?

[paprotective 362]

Thanks Fluid,

 

Good to hear I got some 82/270 5.45 hear. Looks like I need to get 1/2" plate..

 

This is great for zombies in 'light' vehicles then I guess..

 

Anyone do a simple brick test on here yet?? (aka build a mini wall or have a chunk of old bldg??)

 

 

Albert

[Red Square 0]

Awesome Job

 

Thanks for the test fire. I thank this gives all some practical insight of the capability of this round.

 

Iam definitely buying a spam can of this stuff just encase another " Katrina " decides to come by these parts again .

 

 

I sure would like to see the later generations of Russian ammo come on the market.

[dussandr 76]

Thanks for reporting your results.

Edited May 18, 2010 by dussandr

[NM0 586]

Nice, more cool pics, very clear, thanks. Half inch plate is tough, heavy stuff. Are you going to try hitting it with a 7.62 as well?

 

I have some 1/4" and some other plate cut offs that I could give a try. Did you angle the plate when you set it up?

Edited May 17, 2010 by NM0

[Paulry 50]

I set the plate upright against the tire, not much angle. Don't let anyone fool you, this round is NOT a armor piercing round. It is just designed to function well in a full metal jacket, small diameter cartridge. I purposely only shot the Russian Mil Spec stuff and a number of well known .223 rounds as a base line. Now, it is not apples to apples as I had the 20" .223. Next I'll shoot a number of commercial 5.45x39 and compare that to a 16" .223 Saiga! And I'll also hit it with heavier rounds as an example. I just did not want to whack the hell out of it just yet! I have listed the various round hits to be clear.

 

Oh ya, the Jr. Sniper was part of this as well. Take a kid shooting!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I will shoot wet phone books and other items as well! This will take all summer!

 

It's fun to do!

 

Thanks,

 

Frosty

[paprotective 362]

Is the Russian 'Surplus' and Russian 5.45x39 in the pic (left and right sides) the same ammo??

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paulry 50]

Is the Russian 'Surplus' and Russian 5.45x39 in the pic (left and right sides) the same ammo??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's the Russian 5N7 with a 53 grain FMJ bullet from factory #270 made in 1983.