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Paulry

Saiga 5.45X39 Ballistic Testing

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I was thinking of making a "box of truth" for further testing. I was real impressed by how sand stops a high power rifle. I'll have to get some M855. I'll shoot some thinner steel next! I spend so much time screwing with the dang camera, I don't get to shoot much. But, I'll get over it.

 

I want to know what the wolf 60 and 75 grain loads will do. That's next.

 

Thanks all for the input!

 

Frosty

 

(Oh ya, I will try swapping out the 5.45x39 bolts from the Tantal, Bulgarian and Saiga!)

 

:smoke:

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I caught all rounds in a plastic coffee can filled with damp play sand out of a plastic bag. I shot two at a half gallon milk jug filled with water. The 5.45x39 out of a 16" Saiga does not penetrate to any extent. (having said that, if you check out the "box of truth" they could not shoot a .308 though a 4" or 6" column of sand!)

 

If you see the aluminum plate you'll see a keyhole when I hit the ground first. The water bottles blew up as expected but

 

NEWS FLASH!

 

The Wolf 60 grain Hollow Points cause much more damage and do not penetrate to much. This round is HOT (the load not the recoil) big bark and good performance and not corrosive Here is your self defense round for the 5.45x39 in a Saiga!

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post-11604-1275274000826_thumb.jpg

Edited by Fluid Power

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NEWS FLASH!

 

The Wolf 60 grain Hollow Points cause much more damage and do not penetrate to much. This round is HOT (the load not the recoil) big bark and good performance and not corrosive Here is your self defense round for the 5.45x39 in a Saiga!

 

I hit a coyote a month or so ago with the Wolf 60 grain hollow points and it just gutted it with one shot

just blew it up

 

my buddy got one with his AR that day and it just put a hole in it, not very scientific but the same thing happened on jack rabbits

the wolf hollow point exploded them

 

coyote.jpg

Edited by Bucky G

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Bucky,

Do you think it would be a good self defence round? Is it accurate for you?

 

Frosty

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I think it's a wicked good self defense round

 

I think it's a very accurate round

but I haven't fired anything else through it to compare

 

I posted a pic around here somewhere

let me see if I can find it

 

here it is... 100 yards, with a decent 14 power scope

 

the upper left shots that are covered are from sighting it in

 

target.jpg

Edited by Bucky G

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Now try knocking the tip off that Wolf 60 fmj...makes a nasty hollow point. You may need to use the Saiga factory 10-round mags to get them to feed. Try it on one of your dirt filled containers and gallon water jugs.

post-5127-004578300 1275979413_thumb.jpg

Edited by m1key

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Now try knocking the tip off that Wolf 60 fmj...makes a nasty hollow point. You may need to use the Saiga factory 10-round mags to get them to feed. Try it on one of your dirt filled containers and gallon water jugs.

 

I'll try it! I did video the water jugs with FMJ and HP wolf but I had the camera too far back to really get the full effect. I need to figure out how to post video's on the forum.

 

Thanks!

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Hey Frosty,

Not wanting to hijack your thread, but a quick question: What was the result of your interoperability test with the other 5.45 rifles and the Saigas? Will the Saigas accept a standard AK 74 bolt and bolt carrier?

 

Thanks.

 

Jim

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Hey Frosty,

Not wanting to hijack your thread, but a quick question: What was the result of your interoperability test with the other 5.45 rifles and the Saigas? Will the Saigas accept a standard AK 74 bolt and bolt carrier?

 

Thanks.

 

Jim

 

I believe that the AK100 series (Saiga) bolt carriers are not interchangeable with AK74 ones, however I am not 100% on that.

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This testing is great. I am wondering if making a hollow point out of the 5.45 round will stop the tumble effect. I thought the enclosed hollow cavity was there to force the weight of the rear to flip end over end. I am curious how this will turn out.

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It should not change the bullet performance other than when the steel jacket deforms and peels back. The HP Wolf is a steel jacket that is basically a cut off FMJ. It will not act like a commercial copper bullet hollow point. It is still a wicked round, better then the FMJ with all the advantages!

 

027.gif

 

022.gif

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It is still a wicked round, better then the FMJ with all the advantages!

 

That's still yet to be proven, IMHO. We need some more tests in flesh. The one guy on the other forum who hunts deer with his AK 74 and takes pictures of the damage is of the opinion that the 7N6 FMJ is more devastating. (He also said that he did not observe any evidence of tumbling in the HP rounds).

Edited by Jim Digriz

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OK, I've been traveling for business and not had any time. I'm going to go shooting this weekend and will do more testing. I need a cheap usable ballistic medium. Any ideas? This would be or could be used to test the Wolf HP and the FMJ.

 

I've thought about gelatin or maybe taping compound? I needs to be cheep and easy to deal with and reusable.

 

I'll check the bolts out as well.

 

More to come!

 

:super:

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How about a stack of soaked phone books? With 4 layers of denim on the impact surface to simulate heavy clothing.

 

I used to do that with handgun rounds but rifle? And it would not be reuseable. I've seen some kind of grout used but they may not like the white stuff all over at the gun club.

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How about a stack of soaked phone books? With 4 layers of denim on the impact surface to simulate heavy clothing.

 

I used to do that with handgun rounds but rifle? And it would not be reuseable. I've seen some kind of grout used but they may not like the white stuff all over at the gun club.

 

Yeah that is true. You would probably need several to stop a rifle round, Considering some of these zip right through 16" of gel. Possibly might need like half a dozen, maybe more, books which could be a little impractical.

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Caould use floor 'tile' backer board pressed together with GROUT or concrete powder w/sand in it between the layers..

 

If you build a LAMINATE with that (aka several alteranting layers).. this should work.. could seal the edges with black silicone to prevent dust dripping out.

 

Again, I use my useless info rattling around in my head.. Came up when talking BOV armament a few months back.:killer:

 

Doing cost and weight analysis..

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Sand will have to do for now.

 

Saturday's shooting= FUN!

 

Shot a bunch of 5.45x39 mil surp in the Saiga. I broke down and used JB Weld with the spacer, Dinzag guide and proper screw to hole bullet guide. Works great also JB welded the snap on muzzle brake also worked great!

 

Shot the WOLF HP for performance.See attached photos.

 

Unfortunately the hollow point does not seem to expand in water!

 

Shot it into a standard water bottle full of water and a gallon jug of water NO expansion I could tell.

 

Photos of all captured bullets in my next post. Bottom line NOT an Armour piercing round! like stated before.

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post-11604-072371600 1277063851_thumb.jpg

Edited by Fluid Power

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Unfortunately the hollow point does not seem to expand in water!

 

Shot it into a standard water bottle full of water and a gallon jug of water NO expansion I could tell.

 

 

If someone picks up some hornady vmax 5.45 ($20 for 50 rounds)and does a water jugs reaction test I would love to compare to 7.62x39.

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To me the design of the military FMJ's are a good way to get around the no hollow point regulations, for self defense I don't see spending the extra cash for a bullet the gun wasn't designed around.

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5.45x39 surplus vs fairbanks piston.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CncX59huTc

Edited by Krom

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Through steel into soft body armor. (there is an intro and detail video pertaining to this but so just click it from my channel)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xinZQ8WkDdA

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Through wood into soft body armor.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRkD4csIkLQ

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There is a stickied post over at theakforum.net under Ammunition about the 5.45. Apparently, a fellow there (now deceased) who had done a lot of experimentation came to the conclusion that the Russians had inadvertently created a more lethal 5.45 bullet with the FMJ commercial rounds. According to his tests, and from the example at brassfetcher, the 5.45 Wolf FMJ will yaw slightly later than the 7N6, but will tend to have more sideways dwell time (rather than quickly continuing the revolution), thus creating more damage. He explains the mechanism there, although his posts are sometimes hard to follow. Anyhow, something worth looking into. It may be that the quest for a better 5.45 round lies with the FMJ, rather than the hollow and soft points.

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