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It shouldn't be us against them, but when people go to work the Gov. thats whats happens. There used to be this old cop show called Dragnet. I seen an episode last week where they were having row-call and instructing the officers that good treatment of citizens was a must, what a concept! To make very clear I'm not saying a cop should be all smiles with some asshole who just robbed someone, but to going off on the everyday citizen that is paying their wage is total horseshit. I know for a fact the LEO's in this area are trained to make people fear them in order to control their environment, and alot do not know how to turn this kind of behavior off at the right time. I hear all this talk about minority and majority, whats makes me a minority is that I'll stand up for my rights even if it means getting in your face! The fact that my city has chose to hire some jerkoff that believes the citizens now exist for his stormtrooper training is their mistake and somehow becomes my problem, really. Guys on this forum that are announced LEO's seem like pretty cool guys that you could go shooting with, but I think you guys are a minority as well. When your a kid growing there is this romantic idea about Cops and Fireman, but by the time most people hit 18 those good feelings seem to only applies to the Fireman, because most people have already had a little taste of a bad cop. Fireman don't show up at house put out a fire then turn around and give you some bullshit ticket for not having a big enough water hose on the side of your house! I haven't even stated the main reason I personally wouldn't be a cop, to many bullshit laws to enforce. People have lost their simple ways, and allowed big bother to fully take over. The rules should apply to everyone, cops, people Gov, money and so on.

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I read an article talking about the troubled economy, it said the police may be forced to remove the buffer rule for speeding to raise more money. This is oppression. The programs will not get smaller, they will continue to grow and they will continue to find new ways to harass the common man to fund them. This is how Gov. works.

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There are many cool cops out there.

 

One good thing is when a cop passes you on the Hwy going way over the speed limit. You can pull right behind. Its like getting a free pass to speed also.

 

Agree with the first part.

 

On number two....You might want to rethink that.

Edited by DogMan
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Fireman don't show up at house put out a fire then turn around and give you some bullshit ticket for not having a big enough water hose on the side of your house! I haven't even stated the main reason I personally wouldn't be a cop, to many bullshit laws to enforce. People have lost their simple ways, and allowed big bother to fully take over. The rules should apply to everyone, cops, people Gov, money and so on.

 

Cameron:> Bingo

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It used to be Andy Griffith. (Peace Officer) Now they wanna be Steven Segal. (Law ENFORCEMENT)

 

 

 

Why would anyone want to be Steven Segal. :lolol:

 

...to bang Kelly LeBrock?

 

You mean the "Weird Science" woman??? She's still ALIVE!?! She was almost over the hill in that movie, circa 1984 or so! She's got to be at least in her 60's!

 

After the debacle that is "Lawman", NOBODY wants to be Steven Segal... If even to bang a has been septagenarian.post-20073-12707728400957_thumb.jpg

 

Time has NOT been kind to Ms. LeBrock. Are those MAN HANDS on "her"???

Oh kelly still has got it go... wait. Um, NO. She is a mess. A car wreck to look at.

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Can cops lie to you to get the information they and get a way with it?

 

Like lie to you about what laws really say and mean?

 

Yes, police can lie to obtain evidence and/or confessions and courts have upheld the use of this tactic.

 

On a separate note, we should all do our part to stop using the Wild West analogy.

 

The most people ever killed in a single year in the Wild West was Tombstone, Arizona, 1881. The town saw 5 people killed in gunfights.

 

Newark, NJ saw 67 murders in 2008...

 

I'd hate to see the rest of the country turn into the Wild East!

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I am still totally amazed that this topic has remained this civil for as long as it has, considering the past. Kudo's to you all, even with the little jabs here and there.

 

 

 

The only difference to me between you guys and the criminals is you get the fucking badge. I think you are a stand up guy GeorgiaPD, and there is nothing wrong with helping the weak, but really how much of your typical day is spent writing tickets for jaywalking and how much of your time is spent investigating who raped granny? Im guessing the tickets are what takes up most of your day...

 

Wow Sal,

I'm a standup guy who also happens to be no better than a criminal with a badge. I would have thought that you knew me better than that by now. And before you go off telling me how many tickets that I write for jaywalking, you could have sent me a PM and asked what I actually do at work. I do not write tickets, I am assigned to a gang/drug unit and target those individuals exclusively, which are normally the ones who took advantage of granny. As far as your issues with the police in your area are concerned, I offered several remedies/processes to you a few months ago to help correct those. Have you tried any of them yet? One of your biggest problems is the area that you live in right now. You are surrounded by tons of people that are willing to/can take care of themselves, therefore you have VERY little crime. This is turn leaves the police nothing to do but traffic enforcement or harassment (threw that one in for you) during the shift. Again, talk with your city council, local chief or even the local news. The news up there is always trying to find SOMETHING interesting to talk about.

 

 

 

Hell man, it's the wild west out there now. The only exception is that you call the police after the fact now. Police officers can't be everywhere and are under no obligation to protect Joe citizen. I don't have a problem with the police as I have stated numerous times, I have a problem with abuse of power. Good cops shouldn't take it to heart when people bitch about bad cops. Good cops should bitch about bad cops with the people. When good cops defend bad cops and try to make people see that point of view, it distorts what the good cop is saying...........

 

Your right, we can't be everywhere at once, but most of the officers that I personally work with do feel an obligation to protect Average Joe Citizen. Normal average is about one cop for every 12-15,000 people. The cops on this forum HAVE NOT defended any of the wrongs that are claimed, just tried to explain WHY it happens so that you have a better understanding. Telling you why this happens is not defending them in any way. To help correct any problem, you first have to know why it happens to begin with. And I only take it to heart when the whole profession is attacked instead of the ass clowns that are committing the problems. I think that we have posted numerous remedies on this post on how to deal with/take care of a problem cop in your area.

 

 

 

Besides, when was the last time you heard of police stopping a shootout between two people who were at each others throat? It happens daily. The difference is in the people in the area putting up with random people putting them and their families in danger. Honestly, if two people want to have a gun fight I find the option of clearing the streets and doing it in a controlled environment much more appealing than the chaos that ensues today. Why do I care if two people want to shoot at only each other.

 

Last time, about two weeks ago. And believe me, I would like nothing more than to let them go at it with each other in a safe place. Unfortunately, this does not happen and innocent people end up getting hurt in the process.

 

Guys on this forum that are announced LEO's seem like pretty cool guys that you could go shooting with, but I think you guys are a minority as well. Fireman don't show up at house put out a fire then turn around and give you some bullshit ticket for not having a big enough water hose on the side of your house!

 

Cameron,

I agree with you here, as normal. I am in the minority and proud of it. I can and have always been able to take care of myself, like most members here on the forum. Being in the minority is a good thing, but until the majority are willing to take care of themselves, nothing will change. As far as Firemen are concerned, we having a running joke with them here where I live. They show up at your house, tear down the door, FLOOD EVERYTHING, rip out your drywall, break out every window and open your roof like a sardine can. In the end, they get a big thank you and cookies from the home owners. Cops show up to take the report, ask if everyone is ok and get a complaint. :lolol: Damn hosedraggers :haha:

 

And again, I am not condoning bad behavior from any officer on the road. I was raised better and enjoy being part of the minority portion of the population. I hate seeing tax payer money wasted on stupid programs or agencies as much as any of you. I think that they should legalize drugs and then tax the sales (win, win for everyone as one big government agency is reduced by huge amounts and the war on drugs is pretty much over. The government gets to pay down the deficit and the street violence/thefts, etc go way down. Hard to start a turf war when you can buy it in the store or on every corner legally. I also believe in the flat tax, but that is another topic entirely.

Edited by GeorgiaPD
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Can cops lie to you to get the information they and get a way with it?

 

Like lie to you about what laws really say and mean?

 

Yes, police can lie to obtain evidence and/or confessions and courts have upheld the use of this tactic.

 

 

KK,

 

You are correct that police can lie to obtain information. BUT, they can not promise anything in return, such as telling them that they will be taken home after they confess, etc. And they can not lie about the actually meaning of the written law.

 

On the flip side, people can lie back :smoke:

Edited by GeorgiaPD
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Wow Sal,

I'm a standup guy who also happens to be no better than a criminal with a badge. I would have thought that you knew me better than that by now. And before you go off telling me how many tickets that I write for jaywalking, you could have sent me a PM and asked what I actually do at work. I do not write tickets, I am assigned to a gang/drug unit and target those individuals exclusively, which are normally the ones who took advantage of granny. As far as your issues with the police in your area are concerned, I offered several remedies/processes to you a few months ago to help correct those. Have you tried any of them yet? One of your biggest problems is the area that you live in right now. You are surrounded by tons of people that are willing to/can take care of themselves, therefore you have VERY little crime. This is turn leaves the police nothing to do but traffic enforcement or harassment (threw that one in for you) during the shift. Again, talk with your city council, local chief or even the local news. The news up there is always trying to find SOMETHING interesting to talk about.

 

 

Its allways a wall of text with you.

 

 

Lack of crime in Idaho has nothing to do with whats wrong with the work you guys do. What I find unacceptable is the amount of power you guys have and its potential for abuse. Simple as that.

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GeorgiaPD, it's a shame that more focus is not put into the area that you work on. I think much of the frustration with police lies in the fact that the majority of what they do does not seem to coincide with the actual will of the people. I suppose we have ourselves to blame a bit for that, for putting up with the politicians. I bet you guys would get pretty popular if you were let off the chain a bit against the real problems in this Country. Border patrol, rounding up illegals, swarming areas where gangs thrive from drug sales and so on.

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Lack of crime in Idaho has nothing to do with whats wrong with the work you guys do. What I find unacceptable is the amount of power you guys have and its potential for abuse. Simple as that.

 

 

And thus the need to hold them to a higher level of behavior.

 

Using whatever tools are needed, be it Internal Affairs, or a Civilian Review Board, etc.

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GeorgiaPD, it's a shame that more focus is not put into the area that you work on. I think much of the frustration with police lies in the fact that the majority of what they do does not seem to coincide with the actual will of the people. I suppose we have ourselves to blame a bit for that, for putting up with the politicians. I bet you guys would get pretty popular if you were let off the chain a bit against the real problems in this Country. Border patrol, rounding up illegals, swarming areas where gangs thrive from drug sales and so on.

Shit, more like swarming the house's where corrupt politicians meet in private to decide the rest of our fate. Let’s face the real problem, these people have their whole day to focus on ways to be corrupt and get away with it! It has been stated in this thread it is our job to bring corrupt cops to be held accountable for the actions, here’s my question, if I can tell in one encounter a cop is tainted your going tell me the brotherhood can't see this spending 8 plus hours a day with said officer! I work my ass off all day long to pay my taxes so LEO can handle these kind of issues. I don't have readily time on my hands to go clean up the police dept, that’s LEO's job. But I do agree that the only way anything is going to get done is if citizens take back control and make police departments hold cops in violation accountable and people need to push for equal punishment when LEO's break the law, and in cases where cover up and major abuse of power has been used the punishment should be above the standard level that citizens whould face. Whole reason I started this thread is because things are getting out of hand with the way law enforcement treats us, the American citizen, the the tax payer, and I know this just isn't isolated to my area! LEO's and public officials demand respect from citizens even if they have to scare it out of you if need be, but the truth is the vast majority of them could care less about that citizens paying their wages.

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Lack of crime in Idaho has nothing to do with whats wrong with the work you guys do. What I find unacceptable is the amount of power you guys have and its potential for abuse. Simple as that.

 

 

And thus the need to hold them to a higher level of behavior.

 

Using whatever tools are needed, be it Internal Affairs, or a Civilian Review Board, etc.

 

 

You have a warped sence of priority. Regardless of the state, I want to see cop shops dismantled and reformed with less capabilities. There is no need for a para-military force oporating in this country that has the ability to:

1: smash dissent

 

2: monitor citizen behavior

 

3: enforce what people put in their bodies

 

I hope you guys will come around and agree with me. If not than you are part of the fucking problem. :eek:

Edited by bigsal
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Lack of crime in Idaho has nothing to do with whats wrong with the work you guys do. What I find unacceptable is the amount of power you guys have and its potential for abuse. Simple as that.

 

 

And thus the need to hold them to a higher level of behavior.

 

Using whatever tools are needed, be it Internal Affairs, or a Civilian Review Board, etc.

 

 

You have a warped sence of priority. Regardless of the state, I want to see cop shops dismantled and reformed with less capabilities. There is no need for a para-military force oporating in this country that has the ability to:

1: smash dissent

 

2: monitor citizen behavior

 

3: enforce what people put in their bodies..............

 

Bigsal,

 

I couldn't agree with you more with regards to our country's so called drug war, a monumental act of human stupidity that for going on four decades now has not only proven to be a complete and utter failure, but which also pointlessly wastes tens of billions of dollars every year (our tax money effectively just being thrown onto a bonfire), and worst of all it also spawned even more laws in its wake that further eroded human rights in this country. Virtually every law that placed restrictions or outright bans on firearms in this country were passed after the drug war got up to speed in the late 60s and early 70s, and practically all of these laws were passed in the name of fighting the very drug crime (specifically drug dealers killing each other and the bystanders caught in their crossfire) that was virtually non-existent before the drug war was started.

 

Now as far as the original topic of this thread goes, I think that you, Dancing Bear, and Georgia PD are really just talking about two different ends of the same issue, where they are talking about the micro end of things, while you are talking about the macro end. On the micro side of it I agree with Dancing Bear and Georgia PD's point that law enforcement, like with any other profession (be it medicine, law, politics, whatever), will inevitably get some bad apples in it from time to time, and that said bad apples can only be dealt with by effort being put forth both by members of the law enforcement profession and the citizenry at large. On the macro end of things I also definitely agree with your point about how existing laws (most obviously, though certainly not limited to, the drug war) are effectively creating an environment that is slowly turning law enforcement in this country away from the peace officer organizations they were prior to the drug war, and into paramilitary (in the name of fighting the drug war more effectively) and revenue collecting (in the name of funding the drug war) agencies, which of course also creates an environment within some law enforcement agencies that tends to both attract and tolerate people who just shouldn't be in the profession to begin with.

 

Unfortunately I don't see any near term solution to any of this. Law enforcement agencies are stuck enforcing the laws the politicians pass no matter how idiotic some of those laws are (not to beat a dead horse, but again as a specific example the drug war and the numerous laws passed to support the drug war that effectively allowed for invasion of privacy and unjustified search & seizures, not to mention the numerous laws that pointlessly restrict or ban firearms). I also think that these useless, BS, 'moral-majority' laws like drug prohibition, just by their very existence, have a corrosive effect on law enforcement no matter how fairly and rationally law enforcement tries to enforce such laws (just look at the corrupting effect segregation laws in the south had on southern police departments until those laws were repealed in the late 1960s). This problem can really only be countered by repealing drug prohibition, but unfortunately I sure as hell don't see the drug war ending anytime soon.

Edited by Frogfoot
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Wow Sal,

You are surrounded by tons of people that are willing to/can take care of themselves, therefore you have VERY little crime. This is turn leaves the police nothing to do but traffic enforcement or harassment (threw that one in for you) during the shift.

+1

 

That's one reason why I live in the "hood".

 

I've never had better relations with police in my life. ;)

I only have issues in the suburbs or the country at night.

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Now, we're fucking talking!

 

Drudge headline:

 

New immigration bill puts local cops on frontline of border battle...

 

ARIZONA POLICE TO BEGIN ARRESTING ILLEGALS

Edited by Bounce12
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I read an article talking about the troubled economy, it said the police may be forced to remove the buffer rule for speeding to raise more money. This is oppression. The programs will not get smaller, they will continue to grow and they will continue to find new ways to harass the common man to fund them. This is how Gov. works.

 

This is true, I have now seen it myself.

 

I was in "driving school" recently to get let off on a BOGUS ticket (38 in a 40 zone around a curve with a yellow 20mph sign) ....... a 20 year old girl I was talking to got a speeding ticket for 47 in a 45 zone. As we all introduced ourselves and "confessed our sins" an older guy said his ticket was for 46 in a 45 zone. The young girl paid hundreds of dollars (she couldn't afford) in court costs, the fine, and the driving school fee.

 

Yep, oppression, extortion, that about sums it up.

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My biggest problem with the way courts handle tickets is this:

 

You have DA's negotiating drive bys down to illegal discharge of a firearm just to get rid of the backlog of cases.

 

Yet they will hammer you to death about a 5 over speeding ticket.

 

Hell, I won't even stop someone til they are about 15 over.

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Only out of the area do I see much problem. Some juridictions have rep. for harrasment for revenue. Reminds you of the old movies, Ex: Macon County. Sheriff's department in this region have 90% + local hires. Troopers also are regional. Otherwise, they are us, we are them. Cuts down greatly on the "billy bad ass" attitude. Gung-ho/macho is stomped on quickly. Guess, since I am one at times, I like knowing I can B.S. with a rancher on a dirt road or the kids in the meet areas in towns. Don 't get that dirty, "are they here to harass us" look. The known trouble people get watched more. By not only the law, but the public in general. The people require/expect that. The attitude discussed on this thread is direct result of supervisors or the officials in an area. "Bully with a badge" if tolerated, comes from uptop. Some agencies at all levels actually look for these types. Know of a couple "bully" officers that are now supervisors at larger departments. :smoke:

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Your right, if we are going to have police then we need to be in control of their code of conduct and their agenda. The way things stand they are being used as a tool by the gov. to keep us in line and compliant with total corruption.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kind of makes you wonder about the President's "Civilian Defense Force".......

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What all of the previous posts save a few have neglected to mention: ANY "Police" force save the County Sheriff is a CORPORATE (for profit) entity. Period. I know it, my family and friends know it, etc. There is NO provision for these "Law enforcement" entities in the Constitution FOR the United States. Again, PERIOD. All they are is tax collectors with costumes, a tin "badge" and a sidearm.

 

As previously stated: WHEN did a "PEACE OFFICER" become a "LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER????" We all are ON to the FACT that a majority of the "laws" on the books in any state of the Republic are strictly for revenue collection.... I.e. victem,less crimes.

 

Until this specific paradigm is addressed, me and my family will keep to our policy that ANY offensive action taken by "Law enforcement" is an act of WAR, and will be treated accordingly. I'll gladly send any subservient drone that is "just doing his/her job" to Hell, where they belong. (If the "just doing my job" excuse didn't work for Hitler's cronies, I'm not letting it slide for our OWN countrymen and women).

 

The FACT that my own HOUSE is better armed and equipped than our local department is known, and should serve as some detterrent. Not to mention we train a heck of a lot harder than those clowns ever wished they did.

 

Take that how you will... These are crucial times we live in, and THIS family is not hesitant to stand up for what is RIGHT and MORAL. Political and social "correctness" be damned (in the LITERAL sense)

 

By that token, you (or anybody for that matter) will not see any of my family or friends commiting UNLAWFUL acts.

Edited by bohound
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In reading this whole thread, it occurs to me how close the differing sides are to each other, without realizing it. Dancing Bear and Georgia PD are basically mirroring the feelings of all of us who don't like the corruption, along with adding suggestions of how to curb the abuse of power, and all they are asking is that we don't lump them in with the asshole cops that this thread was started about. Yes, I hate a bad cop as much as anybody, and more than most, because I too have had run ins with them. Both sides have to realize a couple of things, To the non LE here: Having a badge does not instantly transform an individual into a corrupt power hungry legitimized criminal. To the LE here: Being entrusted with a badge and gun does not in fact make one anymore trustworthy or capable than any average citizen.

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Your right, if we are going to have police then we need to be in control of their code of conduct and their agenda. The way things stand they are being used as a tool by the gov. to keep us in line and compliant with total corruption.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kind of makes you wonder about the President's "Civilian Defense Force".......

 

 

 

 

?? Not getting what your saying here.

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In reading this whole thread, it occurs to me how close the differing sides are to each other, without realizing it. Dancing Bear and Georgia PD are basically mirroring the feelings of all of us who don't like the corruption, along with adding suggestions of how to curb the abuse of power, and all they are asking is that we don't lump them in with the asshole cops that this thread was started about. Yes, I hate a bad cop as much as anybody, and more than most, because I too have had run ins with them. Both sides have to realize a couple of things, To the non LE here: Having a badge does not instantly transform an individual into a corrupt power hungry legitimized criminal. To the LE here: Being entrusted with a badge and gun does not in fact make one anymore trustworthy or capable than any average citizen.

 

 

 

Mav, I think most of us realize that there are indeed fine people within the police force. Most of what's at stake is the specific role and agenda that the police force has been handed and accepted. If DancingBear and GeorgiaPD were the corrupt monkeys that we were talking about this thread would have been out of hand a long time ago.

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