hellraiser 6 Posted April 15, 2010 Report Share Posted April 15, 2010 alright guys... you guys helped me with most of my stuff to this point. Now im to the point were im thinkin rail system.I got it down to knowing i want a tri rail and im pretty sure i want a kross or a chaos.i want to use a tlr light and a vfg on the bottom rail but need them to be a good space apart... so heres the questions. #1. how many slots on the bottom rail? #2. i figure 1 slot towards the front is used up by the mounting screw. is that slot still usable? #3. (and you got to be a real nice guy to answer this one) How wide is the whole hand gaurd? please answer these questions regardless of wich you have(just be sure to mention wich you have)... thanks in advance!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 (edited) 1- beats the hell outta me, lol 2- the screw will probably be recessed and that slot will still be usable.... could be wrong though 3- This is the reason I haven't bought a quad/tri handguard. They all seem really wide to me. Do they need to be that wide? When you figure out which one is the narrowest.... please let me know, lol. If there were one that was the same width as a Daniel Defense Literail (for AR) I would be all over a couple of them.... Oh yeah, I have neither.... but I am thinking about one ETA: I love my Larue LT-FUG vert grips.... Edited April 16, 2010 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Pruetz 103 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 (edited) alright guys... you guys helped me with most of my stuff to this point. Now im to the point were im thinkin rail system.I got it down to knowing i want a tri rail and im pretty sure i want a kross or a chaos.i want to use a tlr light and a vfg on the bottom rail but need them to be a good space apart... so heres the questions. #1. how many slots on the bottom rail? #2. i figure 1 slot towards the front is used up by the mounting screw. is that slot still usable? #3. (and you got to be a real nice guy to answer this one) How wide is the whole hand gaurd? please answer these questions regardless of wich you have(just be sure to mention wich you have)... thanks in advance!!! Crackhead has edited his post, please disregard! Edited April 16, 2010 by NinerRider Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 alright guys... you guys helped me with most of my stuff to this point. Now im to the point were im thinkin rail system.I got it down to knowing i want a tri rail and im pretty sure i want a kross or a chaos.i want to use a tlr light and a vfg on the bottom rail but need them to be a good space apart... so heres the questions. #1. how many slots on the bottom rail? #2. i figure 1 slot towards the front is used up by the mounting screw. is that slot still usable? #3. (and you got to be a real nice guy to answer this one) How wide is the whole hand gaurd? please answer these questions regardless of wich you have(just be sure to mention wich you have)... thanks in advance!!! Got the Kross rail, it is a good rail and functions just fine, I am not like others on this board who marry their egos to their purchases. I like the fact that it is real narrow and conforms to the gun very tightly. My buddy has a Chaos on his gun and it is nice but way to big for my tastes. #1 Bottom rail has 20 slots, only draw back is that the center of all rails have been v-grooved in an effort to save weight. Some vertical grips secure themselves to the material that was removed so you have to be creative to mount them. #2 The slot is usable, bolt is counter sunk but again you need to be creative about what you mount. #3 The gun with that rail is getting sights welded on so best guess is about a quarter inch wider than the reciever. Niner, I thought the Kross rail looked a little narrower and lighter than the Chaos rail. Hard to compare the two rails when all of the pics are from different views. Great info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Pruetz 103 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 (edited) alright guys... you guys helped me with most of my stuff to this point. Now im to the point were im thinkin rail system.I got it down to knowing i want a tri rail and im pretty sure i want a kross or a chaos.i want to use a tlr light and a vfg on the bottom rail but need them to be a good space apart... so heres the questions. #1. how many slots on the bottom rail? #2. i figure 1 slot towards the front is used up by the mounting screw. is that slot still usable? #3. (and you got to be a real nice guy to answer this one) How wide is the whole hand gaurd? please answer these questions regardless of wich you have(just be sure to mention wich you have)... thanks in advance!!! Got the Kross rail, it is a good rail and functions just fine, I am not like others on this board who marry their egos to their purchases. I like the fact that it is real narrow and conforms to the gun very tightly. My buddy has a Chaos on his gun and it is nice but way to big for my tastes. #1 Bottom rail has 20 slots, only draw back is that the center of all rails have been v-grooved in an effort to save weight. Some vertical grips secure themselves to the material that was removed so you have to be creative to mount them. #2 The slot is usable, bolt is counter sunk but again you need to be creative about what you mount. #3 The gun with that rail is getting sights welded on so best guess is about a quarter inch wider than the reciever. Niner, I thought the Kross rail looked a little narrower and lighter than the Chaos rail. Hard to compare the two rails when all of the pics are from different views. Great info. Crackhead has edited his post, please disregard! Edited April 16, 2010 by NinerRider Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PVT Pablo 25 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 alright guys... you guys helped me with most of my stuff to this point. Now im to the point were im thinkin rail system.I got it down to knowing i want a tri rail and im pretty sure i want a kross or a chaos.i want to use a tlr light and a vfg on the bottom rail but need them to be a good space apart... so heres the questions. #1. how many slots on the bottom rail? #2. i figure 1 slot towards the front is used up by the mounting screw. is that slot still usable? #3. (and you got to be a real nice guy to answer this one) How wide is the whole hand gaurd? please answer these questions regardless of wich you have(just be sure to mention wich you have)... thanks in advance!!! Got the Kross rail, it is a good rail and functions just fine, I am not like others on this board who marry their egos to their purchases. I like the fact that it is real narrow and conforms to the gun very tightly. My buddy has a Chaos on his gun and it is nice but way to big for my tastes. #1 Bottom rail has 20 slots, only draw back is that the center of all rails have been v-grooved in an effort to save weight. Some vertical grips secure themselves to the material that was removed so you have to be creative to mount them. #2 The slot is usable, bolt is counter sunk but again you need to be creative about what you mount. #3 The gun with that rail is getting sights welded on so best guess is about a quarter inch wider than the reciever. Niner, I thought the Kross rail looked a little narrower and lighter than the Chaos rail. Hard to compare the two rails when all of the pics are from different views. Great info. Can't speak to weight but I am pretty sure the Kross is lighter but like said it does present more of an issue when mounting certain items. The Chaos rail looks mean as hell, big plus on the tacticool factor. I don't know why they had to v-groove the bottom rail on the Kross, it is pretty standard for vertical grips to lock in by running a bolt in between the grooves. What is this v-groove? I'm looking at my kross rail right now and I'm failing to find the 'v'. Haha. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 Hi Hellraiser, #1 Our Kross Hellion FLTR actually has 19 slots on the lower portion, 20 out on the sides. #2 One slot is used for the mounting screw, however that slot is still usable. #3 Our HG is about 2.20" in width measuring from the widest points (outside left picatinny to outside right picatinny.) I believe the Chaos trirail is actually lighter than our HG but we feel we have one of the best tri-rails on the market with exceptional ergonomics, features, and aesthetics. With that said, I hope we can earn your business but you can't go wrong with either platform. If you have any questions feel free to send me a PM Thanks! Zach Kross, LLC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 Niner, PM sent. Our rails are mil-spec and should be perfectly straight across in the slots. If there is an issue we will correct it asap. Thanks, Zach Kross, LLC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raidersfan_5544 57 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 (edited) By v-grooves he means a rail like the one in the first pic(I think). The second pic is of a standard picatinny rail. Hope this helps. Sorry about the bad pics but you get the idea PS I didnt know the kross used that type of rail on bottom? From the pics I saw of the kross tri rail they used standard mil spec rails on the sides? Edited April 16, 2010 by raidersfan_5544 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 By v-grooves he means a rail like the one in the first pic. The second pic is of a standard picatinny rail. Hope this helps. PS I didnt know the kross used that type of rail on bottom? We don't. I got in touch with Niner and the mystery has been solved. He should be through to update soon, but basically it's not our HG he's referring to. Zach Kross, LLC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PVT Pablo 25 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 By v-grooves he means a rail like the one in the first pic. The second pic is of a standard picatinny rail. Hope this helps. PS I didnt know the kross used that type of rail on bottom? We don't. I got in touch with Niner and the mystery has been solved. He should be through to update soon, but basically it's not our HG he's referring to. Zach Kross, LLC Oh and here I thought I had some kind of limited edition no v-groove rail. Haha Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hellraiser 6 Posted April 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 WOW!!! great response niner and zach! thank you very much! hey evlblkwpnz i figured i wasant the only one lookin for this info!!! lol. hopefully some one will chime in with some info on the chaos. Both have excelent reps and looks wich is making this decision a gutwrencher... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Pruetz 103 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 Sorry guys I am a crackhead! I bought my rail from CSS and thought it was a Kross which is what I really wanted. They look identical except for you guessed it the v-grooves. Didn't realize my mistake until Zach PM'd me, he is a gracious guy and it makes me want a Kross rail even more. Just to clarify I have a CSS rail not a Kross. My apologies! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Pruetz 103 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 To be helpful I would post pictures of my CSS rail to show you guys the grooves but it is at Tac-47 getting sights welded on. At least I thought it was Tac-47, maybe it is at Tromix or Lonestar Arms. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gpqueen 545 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 To be helpful I would post pictures of my CSS rail to show you guys the grooves but it is at Tac-47 getting sights welded on. At least I thought it was Tac-47, maybe it is at Tromix or Lonestar Arms. We slot the rails to reduce the weight. Our also have drilled and tapped holes on top for the bolt on Quad top rail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 (edited) I think the V grooves he is referring to are like the cut out portions of the Yankee Hill Machine Ultralight AR15 freefloat quad rails. Straight down the middle of the rail. Yes, similar to the first pic, but more is machined out of the middle of the rail, in a v fashion. Anyway, that 'edited by crackhead' comment had my sides hurting, lol. Sorry, I was late replying. The above poster nailed it. Edited April 16, 2010 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 There are some similarities, but to help clear things up here are some pics of the Kross Helllion FLTR. We strive to create an exceptionally ergonomic and great looking rail that is narrow, tight fitted, functional, and compliments the lines and look of the AK platform with an aggressive but not over the top appearance. One of our greatest achievements to this point has been being selected by Tony Rumore of the industry leading Tromix to be featured on his builds. Shown with Cobra's Customs upper gas tube protector LelandEOD LelandEOD Zach Kross, LLC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rickj427 15 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 I went back and forth between the Chaos and the Kross tri-rails for about a week. I finally decided to go with a Kross. I liked how it looked a little better than the Chaos. I just got it about a week ago and I absolutely love it. It really finishes off the look that I was going for. I've never had any experience with the Chaos rail, but I'm sure that you will not be disappointed with either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hellraiser 6 Posted April 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 hey niner no biggie!! you brought somemore info to the thread. to be honest i was lookin at that forend aswell but thers not alot of info floating around about it. so what you had to say really helps too. whats really funny is i was trying to figure out if the kross worked with the cobras custom gass tube protecter and zach posted a pic of it before i could p.m. him about it...lmao... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WFO2 3 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 Good Info. I think I'm gonna get a Kross rail for my s12 . Anybody have info on pricing and turn around time ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Pruetz 103 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 hey niner no biggie!! you brought somemore info to the thread. to be honest i was lookin at that forend aswell but thers not alot of info floating around about it. so what you had to say really helps too. whats really funny is i was trying to figure out if the kross worked with the cobras custom gass tube protecter and zach posted a pic of it before i could p.m. him about it...lmao... Yeah well me and my buddy thought it was a Kross so I don't feel like a total ass! That said I do like the CSS rail just wish they hadn't v-grooved or grovved the bottom rail just makes VFG installation a bit more challenging. Nice tight fit, well made, and it is fairly light. After shooting both my S12s I do prefer the lighter gun, so weight of a product will be a factor in future choices. I am building a 5.45 and one of my goals is to make it as light and stripped down as possible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hellraiser 6 Posted April 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 wow no one feels like chimeing in for the chaos rail ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 (edited) wow no one feels like chimeing in for the chaos rail ? Well, I've owned both and the Kross rail would not work on my gun, (tri-rail kept shifting under recoil). I bought a Chaos tri-rail to replace it and it works great. Imo the way the Chaos rails mount is a lot more secure and they fit a wider range of S-12's, (since all our guns are just a little different). I will say that Zach at Kross is a pleasure to deal with and his CS is top-notch. When we couldn't make the Kross tri-rail work on my gun, I sent it back and he promptly refunded my money. ymmv. Edited April 20, 2010 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 wow no one feels like chimeing in for the chaos rail ? Well, I've owned both and the Kross rail would not work on my gun, (tri-rail kept shifting under recoil). I bought a Chaos tri-rail to replace it and it works great. Imo the way the Chaos rails mount is a lot more secure and they fit a wider range of S-12's, (since all our guns are just a little different). I will say that Zach at Kross is a pleasure to deal with and his CS is top-notch. When we couldn't make the Kross tri-rail work on my gun, I sent it back and he promptly refunded my money. ymmv. Thanks PA, that situation was unfortunate but it did help us spot a problem early and correct it for our first run of full length HG customers. This was before we included any hardware with our rails other than the screw. Out of about 50 from that run we had only a few with this issue, but a few was still a few too many. We eventually were able to identify and correct the problem for those customers and then sent out the new hardware to all of the first run customers for good measure. That solved the issue but we have since successfully implemented several additional changes to even further improve the mounting structure and ensure a rock solid mount and fit for all S12's. All current HG's have the improved mounting structure. Zach Kross, LLC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
camarobeast84 1 Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Have the Kross tri-rails been discontinued??? I can't seem to find one anywhere... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
camarobeast84 1 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Does anyone know the answer to my question??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gpqueen 545 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Have the Kross tri-rails been discontinued??? I can't seem to find one anywhere... Last I heard he went out of business. Have you tried calling the number from his website? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) 19 slots on the bottom rail of the Chaos. 2 1/4" width. Edited January 31, 2011 by King of the Hill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
camarobeast84 1 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 I haven't been able to a find a website... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 They are on the Internet. Websites that is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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