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Saiga 12 Bullpup Prototype - gauging interest


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Yes, there are two LEO's on here that carry S12's everyday at work.

Work the action for a follow up shot with a bullpup Mosin and then you may ask WTF? Make sure you get a 91/30 or a M44 so it is as short as you can get it hero. Good luck with it, maybe you can out

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Much better. I like the placement of the fore grip but it looks a little awkward. I have fired the p90 and ps90 extensively and am very comfortable with that type of fore grip. For those of you who think the pistol grip and fore grip are too close together try a P90 and see what you think. I think that a short forearm with rail would be a good idea for those who would like to adjust the location of the fore grip if they so choose. Other than that, add a magwell and an upswept galil style bolt and I am there (all my S-12s have the galil bolt but on second thought I am not sure it would be good in this bullpup configuration though). It is looking good.

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Adding a magwell to the bullpup kit would present problems. There are too many mag options, and forth coming options, just let the end user install the magwell of their choice. I like the second sketches better but I would like to see a better looking stock.

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Caspian - did your spell checker not work in MS Paint? LOL good one, though, very amused.

 

 

as for the lefty issue.....I will have to have this kit in hand, before I can make suggestions to Bernie on how to work this up for a left handed shooter.

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I agree with Zambidis regarding the magwell. I meant to convey that is what I would add for myself, I was not meening to suggest that the manufacturer should install one. Too many different versions. Maybe if there is a uniform magwell in the future " One Magwell to rule them all!"

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Couple perceptions/theme:

 

- new safety needed(lever?)

- interchangable pistol grip

- weaver connected by 2screws(maybe there is some lock and i don't see it)

- shape of trigger

- size of trigger port

- threaded end of barrel

- handle with weaver?

 

I've tried AUG(.223REM) and didn't like it at all.

There will be too much of smoke under shooter's face(maybe i'm wrong).

Anyway nice work.

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I'd like to see a design come out that mimics the IDF's Tavor.

 

Also I'd like to see someone offer a trigger pack/linkage for someone like myself who wants to make their own bullpup furniture.

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Also I'd like to see someone offer a trigger pack/linkage for someone like myself who wants to make their own bullpup furniture.

 

Bernie is already thinking about that for an offering as well.

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As someone that is very interested in a bull pup shot gun I would seriously consider buy a kit from the second design.

 

However, I agree with the people that said the rear stock needs less complicated.

 

What are his production kits made from? Machined aluminum, cast fiberglass, etc?????

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This is definitely an improvement. I'm still trying to figure out whats going on with the buttstock. It doesn't look comfortable at all. I think it needs more vertical surface to put against the shoulder to better distribute the effects of the recoil. And what is that piece hanging there?

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..Been researching this kit and just saw this image of the Saiga-12 'Spike' today on the CenterBalanceSystems website.

 

Looks like the 'Spike' prototype might be a little more accommodating for under barrel accessories (no pic yet of the optional barrel shroud depicted in sketches).

 

Overall I was only slightly disappointed by the C.B.S. trigger linkage system (which they illustrate in a video on their site for another rifle type), and I was hardly surprised. It seems direct trigger-to-trigger linkage is employed in every C.B.S. product example I could find (which makes sense when producing a modular system).

 

I can't tell yet from the available drawings if it's possible to activate the sear directly by fishing a spring retained rod down the receiver gap (visible when removing the saiga heatshield), which I would certainly prefer but I understand many will probably not care.

 

When researching opinion on Bullpups there are many legitimate complaints, but trigger linkage is always the biggest bitch I hear when researching bullpups.

IMO trigger-to-sear linkage can provide a more crisp trigger squeeze, but I'm not expecting that from C.B.S.;

I'm still researching opinions of the trigger linkage from owners of a C.B.S. kit package, and possibly what could be done to improve the trigger linkage (or whether it needs improvement at all).

 

If the price stays below $300 USD, I'll probably pick one up after I can better see the guts of the kit.

 

EDIT: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=228060 has some images of the guts of a Center Balance Systems SKS kit, if you were wanting (like myself) a better idea of what the kit contents looks like.

 

The review commented about the elevated sightblock/carry handle on the sks unit creating a 'wandering zero' for optics.

 

I'm wondering (if I took it upon myself to modify the kit) if material could be removed from the top (after removing the carry handle) to accommodate a more conventional gas-tube mounted tac rail without compromising the structural bonding between the kit and receiver (I can't have a 'loose/jiggling' feeling in the pistol grip or heatshield).

 

I could install a hinged dust cover with tac rail to mount optics if removing material from the kit isn't possible, but methinks my face will be a bit crowded by anything located very far behind the charging handle on a bull pup, and I've always felt that Kalashnikov dust covers were pretty flimsy.

post-9675-12731210238794_thumb.jpg

Edited by einherjrar
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I received a demo kit of the prototype in the first pictures. I will be reviewing it and test firing it this weekend. Once maker reviews what I say and film, I will post what is released to the public. Prototypes are always a little crude, but I like how it feels without the gun in it already. Will assemble and fire saturday or sunday, pending weather.

 

I will release information as it is available.

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Where did you see the trigger system illustrated?

 

I couldn't find it the other day when I looked at his site.

 

Here's a link to the video on the CBS website;

 

http://cbrps.com/website_copy.avi

 

The video is for a different rifle system kitted by CBS, but you can see the same trigger linkage as in the thread linked below (an owner review of a CBS SKS kit).

 

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=228060

 

The owner review said the trigger pull no worse than the original trigger (SKS triggers aren't fantastic), and there appeared to be no 'flex' in the linkage rod/plate when operating the new trigger.

 

I imagine the trigger pull will be something close to the quality of your original (positioned) trigger/FCG (however good that may be).

 

Overall, most of the reviews I've found for CBS kits have been fairly positive, and I've found few real complaints from owners that you wouldn't already expect to find in a bullpup conversion of a conventional rifle system.

 

I'm still hoping these kits show up in the $300'ish dollar range.

 

 

...and here's something for the mall-ninja.

post-9675-12732217551708_thumb.jpg

Edited by einherjrar
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Below $300 doesn't leave much room for profit, I would be amazed to see this product come to market for less than $400.00 or more, and since the designer seems to be open to design comments from people here on the forum, I believe before its said and done this is going to be one sweet kit!

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I received a demo kit of the prototype in the first pictures. I will be reviewing it and test firing it this weekend. Once maker reviews what I say and film, I will post what is released to the public. Prototypes are always a little crude, but I like how it feels without the gun in it already. Will assemble and fire saturday or sunday, pending weather.

 

I will release information as it is available.

Ben I think the Saiga community will be grateful to you for your efforts in helping bring this product here, and no doubt we'll be seeing Center Balance here as a vendor. At very least this is a cool project that people have had a chance to give real input in the way it looks. :super:

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I know I am a newbie but how does the bullpup design get around the min. length barrel law?

This is a drop-in kit for your receiver and will not change the 'barrel' length of your Saiga.

Shotguns must maintain an 'overall' minimum length of 26 inches before encountering additional legal restrictions.

 

18" barrel minimum

26" overall minimum

 

If you own a Saiga factory 18" barrel (like myself), you may have to consider adding a barrel extension or modifying the butt of the kit to keep your shotgun the appropriate overall length;

Chances are good that this kit will modify a 18" barreled receiver into a 26" overall length package, but I'm not 100% on that.

 

 

BTW/FYI - $300 was a ballpark based on the only product I could see available on the CBS website ($270 mosin kit).

I'd still consider buying it in the 400-500 USD range, I'd just have to get a better look at the final product.

 

/agree with cameron; looks like one sweet kit.

Edited by einherjrar
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  • 2 weeks later...

I am posting a simple video just to prove to everyone that I do indeed have this in my hands, and I am working on reviewing this for the manufacturer. I just havent had the time lately to get anything done. I will be in touch with Bernie in the next day or two to present my findings before posting more...

 

http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk222/cgwsales/gun003.flv

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i would be interested in the gen 2 I need a new space gun looking toy to take to the range. Some kind of shroud to cover the barrel abd bring it all together would be cool also. Keep us updated

Edited by Guero
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Here is a sketching that Bernie has made based on some suggestions here

 

You know I'm not personally a fan of bullpups, but this guy is a very talented and creative designer.

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