12 guage slugs and sabots?

[Snotrag 3]

Why do some slugs and sabots say (For use in fully rifled barrels only)? I was under the impression that sabots and slugs were safe to shoot out of a smooth bore gun, like the saiga12!!

[corbin 621]

They ARE safe, assuming you don't have a full choke. It's just that sabots aren't accurate without rifling.

[mgconnor13 206]

Sabots are designed for use in rifled barrels

[Kliegl 304]

A sabot (shoe in French) is a modern day patch for a modern day minnie ball.

Back in the day, muskets were smooth bore, and you poured in the powder, and rammed a ball home.

Torch that thing off, out goes the ball.

About the civil war, those crafty southerners, then the Union, both started using rifles, and the patch,

primarily for just holding the ball tight previously, was needed to grip the rifling and spin that thing.

 

So, segue to modern times, and the shotshell holds the pellets in just fine, and you don't need a patch

to grab the sides of the smooth bore, same thing with a slug. However, the rifle bullets, much longer than

they are wide, with copper gilding, have enough surface area and grip not to need a patch for their rifling.

 

But, slugs, and muzzleloaders, still can make use of sabots if you have the rifling of which to take advantage,

which a Saiga 12, being a normal shotgun, does not. Rifled slug guns, which are NOT shotguns, rather, they are

RIFLES, have been made to fit bullshit hunting regulations. (Waaah, we're a midwest flat state and we can't use

centerfire rifles, even though Florida, a much flatter state than ANY state in the midwest, uses them just fine.)

Sorry, I'm a Floridian transplant in Indiana, and I have no tolerance for stupid laws....but I digress.

 

So, it makes no sense to use sabot slugs in a smoothbore. Shoot normal slugs, and set your polychoke to slug, or

use full on your tube selection on normal slugs.

 

Anyway, read this. Chuck Hawks is a good source of info.

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

You can shoot either type of slug through an IZ-109 (19" threaded barrel S-12). Not sure what the model number is for the S-12 with the 22" barrel but I have three of them. They have a fixed FULL choke and are not meant to have sabot slugs fired through them. A regular hollow based "foster" slug can be fired through these full choked guns without damage to the barrel. They will just leave a lot of lead fouling in the choked part of the barrel. I know this from experience with my own full choked Saiga 12s. Now on the other hand, I have NOT fired any sabot slugs through those barrels because everything I've read says not to do so. There is a risk of these harder slugs not squeezing down through the constriction like the foster slugs are made to do, and causing the barrel to either split, or get bulge in it, or worse...

From what I've read, those little raised ribs on the outside of a "rifled slug" are actually made to help the slug squeeze evenly through a choke if shot through one.

 

Now all that said, you can shoot the foster slug through the full choke, but it's not going to be as accurate or as good as if shot through an open bore with just a thread protector or nothing at all screwed on there.

 

Other options:

 

1. You can buy a factory Izhmash rifled choke that screws on the threads of a 19 or 24 inch S-12. It's called the "Paradox" choke and is made specifically for sabot slugs.

I do have one of these Paradox chokes and have not seen any improvement in using it for foster slugs. They just seem to foul the crap out of the rifling.

or

2. You can buy a threaded adapter ( http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=43443 ) that screws on the factory threads, and is made to accept normal "winchoke" brand choke tubes, among a few others. With this adapter you can also use RIFLED choke tubes, which are made to give greater distance and accuracy when using sabot slugs.

 

I still haven't tested the sabot slugs through the Paradox and the rifled winchoke adapter I have yet. I am looking forward to seeing what kind of difference it makes with sabots. I also plan to try some fosters through them both and record the results of these side by side.

Then I'll put some through my poly choke on the slug setting just to see if it has any improvement over the naked S-12 barrel. I've already seen other test results that showed the internal winchokes had better patterns than the same guns and same ammo with the adapter removed and the poly screwed on.

 

[BpS12 512]

I've shot the Sabots throught my 19" smooth bore, no choke. At close range they are about as accurate as the rifled slugs. So in a pinch.... But otherwise they're a bit expensive for close range, about 3x the price as the rifled. My question is, would a rifled wad/cup and a sabot slug improve range/performance?

[Snotrag 3]

Thanks guys!!!

[pyrostevo 2]

You can shoot either type of slug through an IZ-109 (19" threaded barrel S-12). Not sure what the model number is for the S-12 with the 22" barrel but I have three of them. They have a fixed FULL choke and are not meant to have sabot slugs fired through them. A regular hollow based "foster" slug can be fired through these full choked guns without damage to the barrel. They will just leave a lot of lead fouling in the choked part of the barrel. I know this from experience with my own full choked Saiga 12s. Now on the other hand, I have NOT fired any sabot slugs through those barrels because everything I've read says not to do so. There is a risk of these harder slugs not squeezing down through the constriction like the foster slugs are made to do, and causing the barrel to either split, or get bulge in it, or worse...

From what I've read, those little raised ribs on the outside of a "rifled slug" are actually made to help the slug squeeze evenly through a choke if shot through one.

 

Now all that said, you can shoot the foster slug through the full choke, but it's not going to be as accurate or as good as if shot through an open bore with just a thread protector or nothing at all screwed on there.

 

Other options:

 

1. You can buy a factory Izhmash rifled choke that screws on the threads of a 19 or 24 inch S-12. It's called the "Paradox" choke and is made specifically for sabot slugs.

I do have one of these Paradox chokes and have not seen any improvement in using it for foster slugs. They just seem to foul the crap out of the rifling.

or

2. You can buy a threaded adapter ( http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=43443 ) that screws on the factory threads, and is made to accept normal "winchoke" brand choke tubes, among a few others. With this adapter you can also use RIFLED choke tubes, which are made to give greater distance and accuracy when using sabot slugs.

 

I still haven't tested the sabot slugs through the Paradox and the rifled winchoke adapter I have yet. I am looking forward to seeing what kind of difference it makes with sabots. I also plan to try some fosters through them both and record the results of these side by side.

Then I'll put some through my poly choke on the slug setting just to see if it has any improvement over the naked S-12 barrel. I've already seen other test results that showed the internal winchokes had better patterns than the same guns and same ammo with the adapter removed and the poly screwed on.

 

 

Now if we could get ole boy with the one off rifled tromix to contribute too we'd have all the bases covered lol. I'd really like to see the results of this...