Hyper Break in?

[AtlSaiga 25]

I know that when it comes to breaking in these guns, there are a two different groups. Those that think breaking in is a myth and those that say that you have to run a few hundred rounds of high brass before things smooth out. Well my question is, does loading up 200+ rounds and blowing though it in a minute and a half count as "breaking in"...or just plain breaking? I'm a just a few pennies shy of gettin' my S12 and now I'm curious. Obviously sending it away for "optimization" is the best bet for 100% performance, and I'll probably be doing that too. But in general, can you take an s12 from virgin to experienced in 90 seconds?

[LinkinMyLog 0]

I got a Saiga yesterday and went to the range today, shot some #8s and it jams almost every time on setting 2, turned to 1 fired a few more 8s and it jammed of course, shot about 15 high brass steel shot through it on setting 1 ejected fine, turned to 2 again and it would only jam 2/10 times with 8 shot.

 

So i mean, maybe shooting high brass will break it in but I don't see it optimizing the gun.

[hobbyshooter 59]

Just buy a bulk pack of federal 7 & 1/2 and shoot it all. If it FTEs, unscrew the gas cam one full turn and try some more.

[Stansplace 414]

These guns were never designed to shoot low brass. Guys tweak em and they work with it. It is designed to shoot high brass and does so well. Once it breaks in it will eat anything pretty much. You can polish, tweak, shine, oil, shoot etc. and the more you do these things the smoother it gets. All they need is a little TLC. My recommendation is buy it, shoot some high brass and some cheap federal target loads, note any issues and post/ask questions on this forum. The guys around here are pretty good at talking noobs through their problems. Before you buy it, take the gas plug out and look for at least three holes into the barrel that are unobstructed. There was some issues with some guns having obstructed gas ports. They were affectionately dubbed vodka specials.

[corbin 621]

My S-12 was mainly broken in with lighter loads, MAINLY. Granted, I bought it from CGW and they test fired it before I got it, I'm sure. I put 200 rounds of Federal bulk through it the first day shooting it:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDQ9NOjUWFM

 

It seemed to work ok, though I WAS able to cause short stroking issues:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn3EPsvegOE

 

 

I've since shot probably 2-300 slugs and AT LEAST that many buckshot rounds though it and it's a rare occasion for it to display problems now. I just picked up some 2" long mini buckshot rounds to test out with it. The first mag I fired cycled without a hitch, but that's hardly enough testing to trust them.

 

 

Corbin

[Kenny Stowe 5]

1st day at the range I made sure to keep her super wet and on gas setting #1 for the first 100+ high brass. Switched over to the walmart low brass with crossed fingers and found a FTE every other shot AHHHH! Bummed I tried setting number 2 which was a bitch as I forgot to apply anti-seize to the threads but eventually go it. I was VERY happy to have not a single FTE out of 60 before deystroying the range's target holder!

 

When I stripped her down to clean and inspect I noticed where the surfaces were showing contact points/scratches on both the rails and bolt carrier. I would have to say that she is well on her way to being broke in after one trip. Not quite a Hyper break in as you call it but well under an hour.

[csspecs 1,987]

I wiped mine down with engine assembly grease and then worked the action about 100 times. Cleaned the grease off and left just a film. Always been 100% for me.

 

But I only use 5 round mags (and a 8 round that I made out of scrap steel and duct tape).

[havok 21]

I shot 125 High brass turkey,slugs, and buck the first time out and mine would still FTE with low brass fed bulk pack from time to time. My port's where too small,so I opened them up and it runs perfect now. 1,000rd's of high brass would have not broken mine in to run low brass.

My friend's S-12 ran winchester bulk pack low brass perfect right out the box first mag no break in.

It's luck of the draw.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

There's no magic break in point, or any special combination of high / low brass shells, or how many or how fast you blow through them all. It's not rocket science. What you have is a mass produced gun, designed and built in a different country, that makes and shoots different ammo through the S-12 than we do here. Their ammo is more powerful and the gun is designed with just enough gas flow in mind to work with that high powered ammo.

That's only part of it though. That's just the first thing they have going against them when they hit the US market and everyone wants to feed them cheap Wallyworld low brass.

Then throw in the fact that they retooled at the plant over the past few years, started doing things differently, and somehow made a few mistakes on a lot of the guns which are now circulating in the US. Among those mistakes, some big ones included undersized and / or partially to totally obstructed gas ports. Hell those guns would even have trouble running on Russian ammo. That's why we now have warranty work where you didn't used to have that option if it didn't run good out of the box.

Back when all the 19" guns came in with 4 gas ports, we didn't have the same issues we have now. Now a brand new S-12 needs to be examined well before buying it. I've actually seen one S-12 that only had one gas port...normal size but only ONE. There were probably two more hidden under the gas block but the owner didn't want to take it off to see. It probably ended up going back for warranty work...

 

My point is though, that this story about "breaking in" an S-12 by taking it out and shooting a bunch of high brass through it, started a few years ago when that really would make a big difference. Back then the guns were built properly to start with, and only needed to have the internals loosened up some by hard use, the recoil springs also loosened up a little, and the paint worn off of all the contact surfaces inside.

Yes that's right. PAINT. They wanted these guns to last forever in storage, not run like a well oiled machine right out of the box, on underpowered ammo. So all the moving parts were painted with a good coating to protect them. In all the older Saigas, the K-USA and EAA imports, even the bolts were completely painted. Now they are at least parked. They still have a rough surface that causes lots of extra friction, but at least they are protected against rust, and that protection doesn't wear off like the paint used to.

When you took your new S-12 out back in the day, and ran a few boxes of high brass through it to "break it in", all you were doing was wearing down the paint and smoothing it up some....that and maybe fatiguing the recoil springs enough to make them have a little less resistance on smooth cycling. All the moving parts though, got a chance to basically polish each other a little, causing the gun to run a little better. That really only works well if the gun has been built with enough gas flow to work with sufficient ammo. It will run better than it did new, but it's not going to run like one that's been worked on by someone who knows what they're doing, has been smoothed out in all the rough spots, and had a good polish put on all the high friction areas. When all the extra unwanted friction has been removed from the machine, the machine will run like it never would have run by just "breaking it in". The older guns didn't need this extra attention paid to the contact surfaces, to make them run well. All they needed was the paint worn off.

Today's S-12 is a different animal. It really does pay to send it off, or at least send off the parts that can make the most difference (like the bolt & carrier and FCG), to have them fixed where there isn't so much extra friction being applied to them, the rails, and the top round in your mag. (or learn how to do the work yourself, buy all the tools you need, and try to do as good a job as someone who has done many, is experienced, and guarantees their work... ) Just talk to anyone who has an S-12 that's been well tuned. They will tell you the difference is like night and day from a regular NIB or "broken in" S-12. It loads easier, cycles much smoother, feeds better, ejects the empty hulls farther and does it every time.

 

That's my two cents on "breaking in" an S-12. It actually can be done in one day, but not by just shooting it...

 

 

[elia.jon1 1]

after cobra i'll add mine.....

 

the "break in" can be needed pretty much anything needs a break in...new motors are suposed to be broken in but if you dont it wont hurt it(till the end haha)

 

if you consider break in 400 rounds of high brass...then it doesn't matter if you do it in an hour or if you take 4 months to do it.....

 

 

the guns were made to cycle low brass thats why they have two settings....for either damn sure it'll work, or its really cold, or this shit is weak.....we have setting 2 for a reason.....

 

i have let people shoot my 12 and they had problems....while i did not they were "limp wristing"

 

out of the three types of value pack at walmart i think its either fed or win that runs good in my saiga on setting one.....only 1 out of the 3 are worth a damn....

 

 

it takes some time to the parts to "mesh" and swapping parts before you know it runs good wont necesarrily be the best thing.....

 

 

hell its part break in and part "getting used to it" anyone can shoot a pump 12......but when you have to hold the bitch still while it cycles against alot of recoil you find not everyone needs a 12ga........

 

 

they make lesser "calibers" gauge shotguns for a reason......

 

 

some women can shoot a saiga 12 some cant shoot even a .223

 

 

 

 

people dont want to admit it but the 12ga is a pretty powerful round and people having problems is because they think 12ga is for everyone....

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

+1 to what Cobra said.

 

No amount of "breaking-in" will result in performance like this...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQU37GG6-Q

 

That's Federal Game Load #6 birdshot fired on factory gas setting 1. My gun was customized by Lone Star Arms after a "break-in", (and several aftermarket parts), failed to completely eliminate the occasional FTE with birdshot.

Edited April 28, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[corbin 621]

the guns were made to cycle low brass thats why they have two settings....for either damn sure it'll work, or its really cold, or this shit is weak.....we have setting 2 for a reason.....

 

 

I agree that we have 2 settings for a reason, but I'm afraid I don't agree that the reason is because they're made to cycle low brass. My understanding is setting 2 is for 2.75" shells and setting 1 is for 3" shells. The lighter game loads I don't believe were originally intended for the Saiga 12.

 

That's not to say they can't be made to cycle them. Mine does just fine.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Cobra....

PA.....

 

Amen, 'break in' happens on the work bench....

It takes me a day of piddling, filing, grinding, drilling.... and doesn't involve high brass.

[6500rpm 670]

+1 to all the posts concerning a little TLC before taking it out to help make sure your first shooting experience is a good one as long as the gun is mechanically sound to start with. I'll add that running a choke/full choke also helps boost useable gas pressure to hope overcome early friction issues as well as running a quality ammo. For obvious reasons slugs and buck shot typically have less problems in a new gun, but a good grade bird shot should also do fine and be easier on the $$$. That being said, these guns have always been a crap shoot in terms of innitial quality, understanding how they function is your best tool.

[BrutalGardener 205]

+1 to what Cobra said.

 

No amount of "breaking-in" will result in performance like this...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQU37GG6-Q

 

That's Federal Game Load #6 birdshot fired on factory gas setting 1. My gun was customized by Lone Star Arms after a "break-in", (and several aftermarket parts), failed to completely eliminate the occasional FTE with birdshot.

 

I can shoot the same way with Federal bulk loads and Gunfixers Gas Plug setting of 3 on my "untuned" gun. Once in a while, one of my buddies will limp-wrist it and get a stovepipe. I don't really care whether it's 100% reliable with cheap target loads though. I'm more interested in buck and slug performance reliability and my S12 has no problems with those. I even intentionally limp it when shooting buck and slugs, by shooting with the stock folder and even one-handed and it never FTEs on me.

 

Also, if you can shoot birdshot like that on 1, I would be worried about what magnum slugs or buck can do to your back trunnion. Your weapon might be overgassed here.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

+1 to what Cobra said.

 

No amount of "breaking-in" will result in performance like this...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQU37GG6-Q

 

That's Federal Game Load #6 birdshot fired on factory gas setting 1. My gun was customized by Lone Star Arms after a "break-in", (and several aftermarket parts), failed to completely eliminate the occasional FTE with birdshot.

 

I can shoot the same way with Federal bulk loads and Gunfixers Gas Plug setting of 3 on my "untuned" gun. Once in a while, one of my buddies will limp-wrist it and get a stovepipe. I don't really care whether it's 100% reliable with cheap target loads though. I'm more interested in buck and slug performance reliability and my S12 has no problems with those. I even intentionally limp it when shooting buck and slugs, by shooting with the stock folder and even one-handed and it never FTEs on me.

 

Also, if you can shoot birdshot like that on 1, I would be worried about what magnum slugs or buck can do to your back trunnion. Your weapon might be overgassed here.

 

Yeah, that's the point. I got similar results with Gunfixr's gas plug on 3, (shells not thrown as far though), but I still got an occasional FTE, even using a Polychoke, (chokes help the gun cycle with low-brass).

 

My S-12 now cycles everything, (even Winchester "Universal" trash), using the factory gas plug, (slightly modded by Lone Star ). The gun is not overgassed. Believe me, I've been keeping an eye on my rear trunnion, (no increased wear since LSA work), and fire ~25+ high-brass shells every time I go shooting. As I said, the work Mike does on the gas system is unique.

[BrutalGardener 205]

+1 to what Cobra said.

 

No amount of "breaking-in" will result in performance like this...

 

That's Federal Game Load #6 birdshot fired on factory gas setting 1. My gun was customized by Lone Star Arms after a "break-in", (and several aftermarket parts), failed to completely eliminate the occasional FTE with birdshot.

 

I can shoot the same way with Federal bulk loads and Gunfixers Gas Plug setting of 3 on my "untuned" gun. Once in a while, one of my buddies will limp-wrist it and get a stovepipe. I don't really care whether it's 100% reliable with cheap target loads though. I'm more interested in buck and slug performance reliability and my S12 has no problems with those. I even intentionally limp it when shooting buck and slugs, by shooting with the stock folder and even one-handed and it never FTEs on me.

 

Also, if you can shoot birdshot like that on 1, I would be worried about what magnum slugs or buck can do to your back trunnion. Your weapon might be overgassed here.

 

Yeah, that's the point. I got similar results with Gunfixr's gas plug on 3, (shells not thrown as far though), but I still got an occasional FTE, even using a Polychoke, (chokes help the gun cycle with low-brass).

 

My S-12 now cycles everything, (even Winchester "Universal" trash), using the factory gas plug, (slightly modded by Lone Star ). The gun is not overgassed. Believe me, I've been keeping an eye on my rear trunnion, (no increased wear since LSA work), and fire ~25+ high-brass shells every time I go shooting. As I said, the work Mike does on the gas system is unique.

 

Well, that's good then.