Why use the 22 inch 308 Saiga?

[Nu2Saiga 0]

Hello,

 

I'm primarily a lurker. I discovered this website through the AK Forum. I have a question...

 

Okay, I have 3 Saiga 308-1 16.25 inch barrel rifles. I also have a Remington 700 BDL DM (DM-detachable magazine) and a Winchester 70 SA HV (Heavy Varmint) in 308. The Remington 700 has a 20 inch barrel and the Winchester 70 has a 26 inch barrel. When I want to shoot for accuracy, I shoot either the Remington or the Winchester (I have both scoped with Leupolds [Remington Leupold Vari-X III 3x9x50, Winchester Leupold VX-III EFR 6.5x20x40]). I see the Saiga as a utility gun with workable accuracy (Like a Springfield M1a) that can be used for hunting.

 

So what is the purpose of the 22 inch Saiga? Is it significantly more accurate than the 16 inch? Or is it just a velocity thing?

 

I see the value of the Saiga as its compact maneuverability with the power of a 308 round. (I did make one modification to each-added a Krebs peep sight). The 22 inch strikes me as ungainly.

 

I really like the Saiga 308. Each one that I have is fun to shoot.

 

Any insight would be great.

 

Nu2Saiga

[Desert_Rat 0]

New here to, done a lot of lurking also. I opted for the 20' barrel. I figured that if I was going the .308 route I wanted to get the most out of the round that I can. I'm shooting it for the first time on Sun. so I can't comment on accuracy yet and probably won't really be comfortable making comments about the accuracy until I've really shot it a lot at different ranges. I'm expecting a bit of me getting used the the rifle. As far as handling, after converting it (how's that for a Saiga owner, haven't even shot it yet) it feels really good and I'm not expecting it to handle badly, or I should say worse than any other rifle of comparable size. Is it a light weight M4 type rifle, No, but that's not what I wanted anyway.

[csspecs 1,987]

Because I like my hearing.

 

The 16 inch are very loud.

[BrutalGardener 205]

I chose the 22" barrel one, because I wanted to build a "Saigunov" or "Saiganov", which is a term for a Saiga that sorta, kinda looks like an Eastern Block designated marksman weapon, such as SVD (Dragunov) or PSL.

[SovietGinger 16]

22inchers look more like sniper rifles.

[1liter 20]

Great question, that's why I cut mine down.

[N4KVE 14]

Because I like my hearing.

 

The 16 inch are very loud.

Especially with an AK 74 comp on the end. GARY N4KVE

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Why go with the 22" bbl?

Yes, velocity, max energy at max range for max knockdown. And yes, accuracy too.

 

Most here want a tactical battle rifle, 16" allows for easiest movement in close quarters, heavy brush/woods and in buildings.

A good number either want, a battle rifle utilizing the full potential of the .308, or a something more inline with a Designated Marksman rifle for mid/long range accuracy/power.

The latter go with the 22".

 

I wanted a S.308 with a 20"+ barrel, something for the range and hunting, not tactical.

In a pinch tho, it'd do just fine as a DMR.

So I went with the S.308-ver.21, (21" barrel).

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=51221

Edited May 1, 2010 by ChileRelleno

[G O B 3,516]

20" = smaller fireball.

[Havoc308 3]

20" = smaller fireball.

 

It's great fun to light off some 308 out of a 16" barrel. Beach ball sized fireball, ear splitting noise, whats not to like. The best is when the whole line at the range simply stops looks and stares. The 22" is way more practical for anything but kind of a long stick.

[chriskroll411 2]

Why go with the 22" bbl?

Yes, velocity, max energy at max range for max knockdown. And yes, accuracy too.

 

Most here want a tactical battle rifle, 16" allows for easiest movement in close quarters, heavy brush/woods and in buildings.

A good number either want, a battle rifle utilizing the full potential of the .308, or a something more inline with a Designated Marksman rifle for mid/long range accuracy/power.

The latter go with the 22".

 

I wanted a S.308 with a 20"+ barrel, something for the range and hunting, not tactical.

In a pinch tho, it'd do just fine as a DMR.

So I went with the S.308-ver.21, (21" barrel).

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=51221

Chile, that photo right there was a final nudge in my decision to purchase a ver21 3 months ago. Saw it in a few forums. Love the furniture!

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Accuracy on irons is increased also as the distance between rear and front sights dictates how "sensitive" the iron sight would be. If you moved the rear sight back to the rear of the cover you would gain a lot of accuracy also which is one of the justifications on those high priced TWS Dog legs.

 

As for a fireball the first time you fire a 16" at night sans flash hider or even worse with a brake and spend the next few minutes night blind you begin to see the logic.

Edited May 2, 2010 by Rhodes1968

[iteachsurfing 50]

Get em both if you can!!!

I do love the fireworks of the 16

so much fun ... it's an absolute crowd pleaser.

Smiles from the entire range:)

The longer barrel is better for vel.& longer range accuracy.

IMHO

[rob-cubed 74]

Longer barrel = slightly more velocity, longer sight radius, less muzzle blast.

 

Shorter barrel = more maneuverable, potentially more accurate due to less barrel whip, more muzzle blast.

 

I've read a few articles written by experienced distance shooters that say shorter can actually be better for accuracy (counter to the usual argument that sniper rifles have to be long). Less velocity does mean more bullet drop over a distance, but surprisingly not that much. If you are using irons, the longer barrel would be better due to sight radius but not because it's inherently more accurate.

 

However, a few inches difference does make a much louder and brighter bang and one of the first things I'd do is put a decent muzzle device on it.

[crackback 135]

Why? Because a 22" can be cut to 19.5 and threaded 25/32 x24 TPI with relative ease"

[Nu2Saiga 0]

Thank you for your input.

 

I haven't shot any of my Saiga 308 16inch rifles at night. So I'll learn about night time muzzle flash in the future.

 

I don't have any problems with the sound report of the 308 out of a 16 inch barrel. I guess shooting Marlin 45/70 Guide Guns can adjust your loudness expectations.

 

I now have a better sense of why people like the longer barrel. I'll just keep on using my Remington and Winchester for the longer range/better accuracy stuff.

 

Have a good day.

[antiacus 0]

Why? Because a 22" can be cut to 19.5 and threaded 25/32 x24 TPI with relative ease"

 

This sounds like what i'd like to do. Can you tell me what that means in laymans terms? Thanks!

[crackback 135]

Why? Because a 22" can be cut to 19.5 and threaded 25/32 x24 TPI with relative ease"

 

This sounds like what i'd like to do. Can you tell me what that means in laymans terms? Thanks!

 

No problem. Cutting the barrel to 19.5 inches from the original 22 inches with a threading pattern (25/32 x 24 TPI) that is common to most NATO 7.62(.308) muzzle devices.

[elia.jon1 1]

my wifes uncle bought the 22 incher for some reason, and in a semi platform i see the 16 incher as having a "Stiffer" barrel thus being more accurate(scoped)

 

i think its preference, but i prefer one lighter.....

 

if you have a "sniper" rifle or a dedicated long range bolt gun, then it would seem better to go with the shorter gun like has been said

 

plus when you convert the 308, and put ak furniture on it it looks mean, damn mean...but the long barrel monster looks kind of funny.....

 

doesn't really pull the svd look off with the normal sized gas system...those "novs" have a different setup on em....

 

niether one of them could touch a good bull barreled bolt gun in terms of accuracy at the "max" range...so why not go for the fun one...

 

 

i vote 16" the 22 incher is heavy.....

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I have been told that most 308 rounds work better with at least 18" length and prefer 20". Look at the rifles its was designed to work with and you see 20" barrels.

[SonCoSaiga 2]

Less blast and a few more FPS

[jdmakersmark 15]

Is the 16" barrel really that much louder than the 22"? How about compared to S-12? I can't tell the difference.

 

Come to think of it I do get some people at the range asking me what the hell is that AK guy shooting? I usually use plugs and muff, so It doesn't seem too loud to me.

 

I like warming up with my 10/22 at the range and letting my neighbors get relaxed, then I pull out the 308 and let her eat.

[Zambidis 90]

Has any one chronographed both the 16" and 22" S308? I'd be interested to know what the actual velocity loss is with various load if the have.

 

Less velocity does mean more bullet drop over a distance

 

As well as more drift in the wind.

[AK86 1]

Is there actualy PROOF that 22" is more accurate than 16.3", or is it just a bandwagon type of thing?

[molodoi 0]

Is there actualy PROOF that 22" is more accurate than 16.3", or is it just a bandwagon type of thing?

Wondering about that too. I don't see any supporting evidence anywhere. If the 22" barrel whips too much, barrel dampeners can always be added for cheap

[SonCoSaiga 2]

Is the 16" barrel really that much louder than the 22"? How about compared to S-12? I can't tell the difference.

 

Come to think of it I do get some people at the range asking me what the hell is that AK guy shooting? I usually use plugs and muff, so It doesn't seem too loud to me.

 

I like warming up with my 10/22 at the range and letting my neighbors get relaxed, then I pull out the 308 and let her eat.

 

yes. My short barrelled .308 Saiga is much louder than my BAR Shortrak with the 20 incher and same ammo.

[macbeau 902]

If you put an M60 flash hider and receiver-cover mounted rear sight (sight radius is actually 2" long than a stock 22"-er) , all things are pretty much equalized. You only get about an extra 60-75 fps on the 22" over the 16"... Oddly enough, Less if you're using heavier bullets (165-175gn weights)..

Macbeau sends...

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Is there actualy PROOF that 22" is more accurate than 16.3", or is it just a bandwagon type of thing?

Wondering about that too. I don't see any supporting evidence anywhere. If the 22" barrel whips too much, barrel dampeners can always be added for cheap

 

Those are intended to work with barrels that are floated which is not possible with the gas system of the AK where the force of the piston/bolt carrier on the barrel is substantial.

[jeepranch 16]

If you put an M60 flash hider and receiver-cover mounted rear sight (sight radius is actually 2" long than a stock 22"-er) , all things are pretty much equalized. You only get about an extra 60-75 fps on the 22" over the 16"... Oddly enough, Less if you're using heavier bullets (165-175gn weights)..

Macbeau sends...

nice looking flash hider, can you give us the details?

[cw3sting 12]

I'm wondering if there might be a reason why a shorter barrel might be potentially slightly more accurate in a gas operated rifle, outside of the shorter barrel being "stiffer".

 

Figuring a 2700 f/s round in a 21.8 inch Saiga, vs. the same round at 2600 f/s in a 16.3 inch Saiga, there's 5.5 inches more barrel ahead of the gas port for the 21.8 inch rifle.

 

I see the possibility of more piston/bolt carrier motion in the longer barrel before the projectile exits.

 

Opinions?