AR Mag Adapter

[christcorp 26]

I'm sure it's been asked before, but I'd be interested in seeing a copy of the "Instructions". I have the instructions for the Renegadebuck adapter, and it's very easy, self explanatory, and not very intrusive on the rifle. I'd be interested to know if the modification for an MSA adapter is more in-depth. And of even more interest, if the modifications required to make one of the adapters work, be enough to allow the other one to work. Thus being able to test or evaluate both of them. With the Renegadebuck adapter, while a Mill would be neater, it literally can be done with a dremmel, because you are only adapting the nubs on the trunnion to allow the AR magazine to seat deeper. There's nothing modified on the magwell opening or anything. Anyway, if you have instructions online, I'd be interested. Thanks. Mike.....

How did the magwell conversion go? What was the procedure? Was it difficult? I see you have the renegadebuck converter. It has worked good? How long have you had it?

It's worked flawlessly. I've had it for a couple of months. I gave a review in a thread a little further down. It's a short review. I gave another more indepth review on a different forum. Basically, if you wait till you get the adapter before anticipating what needs to be done; follow instructions; and take you time; you can have the Renegadebuck adapter fitted into your Saiga in less than an hour using nothing more than a dremmel. Very simple and very well made. Last weekend I went through almost 300 rounds of misc ammo. Mostly tula steel case FMJ. Ran through 10+ different magazines. No negative issues whatsoever. Works just like it's suppose to. A couple of magazines I put new magpul followers in. (They were OLD magazines). They had issues on the very last 2 rounds of the magazine. But again, that's a magazine issue. (Not uncommon with ar15 magazines). I replaced the followers and they too work flawlessly with the renegadebuck ar mag adapter. Couldn't be more pleased.

[ctlaw74 0]

I am OWED 5 AK adapters that I paid for over two years ago during the pre-order. I have been very patient with Nate and have just sent him an email hoping he replies. I will keep you all apprised of his customer service providing something that was paid for a long time ago but has yet to be shipped.

[christcorp 26]

I hope you get it all worked out. From the posts I've seen in the last couple weeks, Nate has been back into production and has been catching up on the backorders. Hope yours is one of them. I've not used the MSA adapter, so I can't comment on it. I know the original version required a lot more "modifying" of the rifle than I wanted to try. At least that's how it appeared. Especially from some of the horror stories. That's why I went with Renegadebuck's. Very simple procedure, and it goes in and out as easy as a magazine does. So I can shoot AR mags or in literally 2 seconds, remove the adapter and shoot the original Saiga magazines. Now in all fairness to Nate, the most recent models of his adapter claim to be as simple as Renegadebuck's. And price is very similar. But I don't have any first hand knowledge of the MSA adapter. Also in all fairness, Nate has offered me the ability to do a review on his adapter. I simply haven't had a lot of time lately, and it would be unprofessional of my to accept an adapter from him if I can't give him a thorough and honest review. I was fortunate to get the Renegadebuck adapter when I did. He had run into some production problems. But those have been worked out, he's producing them again, and I believe he's taking orders. But you've already paid for your adapters, so I hope you get things taken care of. He seems to answer posts and threads here pretty well. Best of luck to you.

[ctlaw74 0]

As I said before I have patiently given Nate a wide bearth and now that he appears up and running from his posts and photos I expect product delivery and will keep all advised.

[ctlaw74 0]

Day Three...

[christcorp 26]

Wow, I would have thought that within 3 days you would have received an email reply. The curios thing is that many people seem to believe that everything is now all good with MSA. Guess there might still be a few bumps. ???

[Zambidis 90]

What is the estimated time between ordering and delivery for an MSA adapter right now> What is the time line one should expect on an order? If they order do they receive email confirmation? When are things supposed to ship? Are they giving shipping confirmation? Tracking numbers? One of the reasons I've placed a number of orders with CSS is that they keep me apprised of my order every step of the way and get me my stuff rather quickly.

 

The curios thing is that many people seem to believe that everything is now all good with MSA. Guess there might still be a few bumps. ???

 

I'd imagine that people believe things are up and running now because that is what Nathan et al are saying or insinuating. I'd also imagine that if there are problems again it will seriously harm the reputation/credibility of MSA and those involved with it. I hope MSA does have things running properly as they have some good products and ideas for some more that would be a real benefit to saiga owners.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Zambidis

[christcorp 26]

Definitely true and well said. I've personally never ordered anything from MSA, so I don't have first hand knowledge. I'd like to hear more from those who have had orders in for a while. As well as those making new orders. There's always enough customers for every merchant, so I hope MSA gets things straightened out. When it comes to AR/Saiga adapters, MSA and Renegadebuck are the only 2 manufacturers making these adapters. Definitely a niche market.

[avnate 335]

I am OWED 5 AK adapters that I paid for over two years ago during the pre-order. I have been very patient with Nate and have just sent him an email hoping he replies. I will keep you all apprised of his customer service providing something that was paid for a long time ago but has yet to be shipped.

 

 

First off everyone dispence with the conspiracy theory. Jesus Christ can a man leave town for a few days to take some R&R . I had answered emails from my cell as I got them. I had even answered messages on this site before I left and called customers while I had down time. (Hell today I was on the phone with RTLW from this forum today). I am sorry I did not ask for the days off, I will be sure to do so next time LOL I'm being funny folks. Bottom line I am bustin ass launching new adapters... Last week I started the "AK" adapter which is what CTLaw is waiting on. It in not a Saiga adapter but a change to. I even launched a Gen3 Galil as I had updated the Saiga to a Gen3. From this I launched a Valmet M76/M71... As of today I have scheduled the BASTARD (semi-permenant adapter) for production to ship in the begining of Sept. So I am working, and yes I am taking some time off as I need a rest as I have been running full steam and needed a break.

 

Matt,

I just got your Forum Message, It didn't get delivered as an email. I sometimes overlook forum status updates as spam, sorry. I just returned to work today and have yet to get caught up. I am working on many projects both here and abroad. And to give you a update I can ship you Saiga adapters or I can finish milling the "AK" adapter upgraded ones you speced out. I just put into production before I left for R&R last week. So yes you are getting them and the other adapter shipped as soon as I am caught up and have the "AK" adapters ready. Or I'll ship you 5 Saiga adapters, your choice. Just let me know.

Edited August 25, 2010 by MSA

[avnate 335]

What is the estimated time between ordering and delivery for an MSA adapter right now> What is the time line one should expect on an order? If they order do they receive email confirmation? When are things supposed to ship? Are they giving shipping confirmation? Tracking numbers? One of the reasons I've placed a number of orders with CSS is that they keep me apprised of my order every step of the way and get me my stuff rather quickly.

 

I have been bustin ass to have adapter shipped in 3-4 business days. Shooting for same day or next shipping and getting close. HOWEVER I did retool earlier this month that set me back. This was because I made the Gen3 line. I have also worked to bring all production in house, save for two componets. Which I promised to use a specific company because they are "Good People"

 

Yes you do get an order confirmation

 

Yes you do get a USPS tracking number

 

Yes I have been answering emails if there is a issue I give you a NO BS this is what I have answer. I had gone as far as to email customers that have emailed me multiple times for updates. Before I left for my R&R I emailed each one and told them the update to stave off any issues. CTLaw emailed after I had left I did not get it till today. Had I did like the others he'd been replied to over the weekend.

[avnate 335]

Wow, I would have thought that within 3 days you would have received an email reply. The curios thing is that many people seem to believe that everything is now all good with MSA. Guess there might still be a few bumps. ???

 

 

Seem to believe? Come on now, play fair.... People are posting they are getting their stuff. I'm sure if they weren't the comments would be flying still.

 

Bottom line we are shipping and that can not be disputed. There are no bumps... I update the website everytime there is a change in production status. If you read your email order confirmation it states where to look for updates. Those that have emailed have been replied to (save for CTLaw74 wich I am upset over missing). I can not police every forum to post updates, way to time consuming. I have to many products launching to devote my time to. If you want to know what's going on visit the Facebook page or visit the site.

 

 

OK I have to finish milling, If anyone needs me send a email to the Sales at address. If it shows from the forum it is possible it may be missed as my email on my phone shows forum updates and some I've grown acustomed to overlooking as spam mail. Thanks

[christcorp 26]

Dude; a bit of advice. (Throw it out if you want). Your responses were a bit dramatic and over-reactive. I'm simply a poster. An insignificant no one. I'm "ALLOWED" to go ballistic and get annoyed. Someone who owns a company and trying to sell a product on a forum, might want to show a little more composure and professionalism around their demographic customer base. In other words, don't whine when people ask questions or make comments. Present yourself as if everything is under control. Customers need confidence in people they're giving their money to. Anyway, just advice. Throw it away, use it, tell me to mind my own business; doesn't matter to me.

[Torquemada 6]

Dude; a bit of advice. (Throw it out if you want). Your responses were a bit dramatic and over-reactive. I'm simply a poster. An insignificant no one. I'm "ALLOWED" to go ballistic and get annoyed. Someone who owns a company and trying to sell a product on a forum, might want to show a little more composure and professionalism around their demographic customer base. In other words, don't whine when people ask questions or make comments. Present yourself as if everything is under control. Customers need confidence in people they're giving their money to. Anyway, just advice. Throw it away, use it, tell me to mind my own business; doesn't matter to me.

 

Who are you talking to? Nate from MSA? ... I see no melodramatics or unprofessional comportment in any of his responses. He's been quite cordial thus far and I see no need for you to sermonize him on proper business etiquette.

[christcorp 26]

If you say so. When the very first sentence in his responses is: "First off everyone dispence with the conspiracy theory. Jesus Christ can a man leave town for a few days to take some R&R"; I don't see that as the response I want to hear from the owner/president/ceo or whatever of a company. But hey; you can do exactly what I said Nate could do. Throw my advice out the window. That's why it's free. You get what you pay for.

[avnate 335]

Dude; a bit of advice. (Throw it out if you want). Your responses were a bit dramatic and over-reactive. I'm simply a poster. An insignificant no one. I'm "ALLOWED" to go ballistic and get annoyed. Someone who owns a company and trying to sell a product on a forum, might want to show a little more composure and professionalism around their demographic customer base. In other words, don't whine when people ask questions or make comments. Present yourself as if everything is under control. Customers need confidence in people they're giving their money to. Anyway, just advice. Throw it away, use it, tell me to mind my own business; doesn't matter to me.

 

Advice?... OK. Reread my first post, it is in jest.... read the smilies and the "LOL" there cupcake <-- there's another.

 

My response to Zam is simple yes and no to his questions and a explanation. I've also been working since 5am CST and still working. Call is short answers... but nowhere did I attack him. If he feels offended by my post and he say's so then I'll apologize as that wasn't my intent. But nowhere did I remember/recall addressing you in that response.

 

 

 

You want to support Renegade, I have no issues with that. My target audience is a lot bigger than homebrewed AR adapters for a Saiga. I do admire your loyalty to his brand. Just until you've used mine you have ZERO basis to make a comarison of product or customer service. I did extend you the offer to do so and yet to be taken up on it.

 

My respone to you is in the wording of your post. In case you missed it, and I quote "Seems to believe" If you want to fuel a fire keep posting things like this. Your comment is in no way constructive and of any help to any situation. If anything your comment was disrespectful to my company. I simply reminded you of fact, I told you before in another post I deal in fact. If you want to go "ballistic" or "get annoyed" on my company, become a paying customer, earn the right. You want to troll or try fueling a fire, expect me to call you on it. Don't act surprised or offended if I address you directly. If you'd like I'd be happy to take this private.

[avnate 335]

Dude; a bit of advice. (Throw it out if you want). Your responses were a bit dramatic and over-reactive. I'm simply a poster. An insignificant no one. I'm "ALLOWED" to go ballistic and get annoyed. Someone who owns a company and trying to sell a product on a forum, might want to show a little more composure and professionalism around their demographic customer base. In other words, don't whine when people ask questions or make comments. Present yourself as if everything is under control. Customers need confidence in people they're giving their money to. Anyway, just advice. Throw it away, use it, tell me to mind my own business; doesn't matter to me.

 

Who are you talking to? Nate from MSA? ... I see no melodramatics or unprofessional comportment in any of his responses. He's been quite cordial thus far and I see no need for you to sermonize him on proper business etiquette.

 

 

I see you're here in Texas as well. If we ever meet the beer and strippers are on me. Hell If your near the DFW area I'll take you out to the Stock Yards for a smoked hunk of beef

Edited August 25, 2010 by MSA

[christcorp 26]

Well damn. And I thought I was actually being supportive. Encouraged the poster to hang in there. Told him that others seem to be getting their orders filled. Mentioning how you seemed to be back up and running. I see that as being pretty supportive of your position.

 

And obviously you too have a problem reading. I specifically said above in post #123

Now in all fairness to Nate, the most recent models of his adapter claim to be as simple as Renegadebuck's. And price is very similar. But I don't have any first hand knowledge of the MSA adapter. Also in all fairness, Nate has offered me the ability to do a review on his adapter. I simply haven't had a lot of time lately, and it would be unprofessional of me to accept an adapter from him if I can't give him a thorough and honest review.

 

No, I think my responses are fine. Tell you what. Start a thread SPECIFICALLY about your adapter, and I promise not to post in it at all. As I said in the post above, I don't have any first hand knowledge of your adapter, and that's why I won't post in your MSA thread. But if you're going to dog me for what you "Believe" I meant by a post, simply because I apparently misunderstood your response, then it's best if we keep our separate ways. This is an open forum. We're suppose to be able to give comments and opinions. I simply told the poster to hang in there, because your non-response to him did NOT SEEM NORMAL. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. But I don't have time for this. So I'll let you go. Hopefully your product becomes a big success and you have many happy customers.

[avnate 335]

Ever since that little debate you tried to have with me on instructions you "seemed" to be trying to push an issue with me. I'm not sure if I pissed in your Cheri-O's that morning or not. I have no animosity towards you in any way, Even tried to explain simple 3D modeling to you so we could communicate on the same plane and still saw you come here to push the instructions issue. Damn dude seriously?. Every point you made I dispelled with fact... you had no choice but to give. The adapters install in the same manner, I just provide more technical info for someone with a mill to do it properly. And to save my ass, as I have business insurance, it's required by an underwriter to get coverage.

 

I have seen where you have tried to be supportive in one breath but in another breath push Renegades adapter. "Especially from some of the horror stories. That's why I went with Renegadebuck's" What horror stories? People who can't properly install them? I personally had a customers rifle fixed due to their fuck up. How's that for customer service you're so adamantly championing? The only real horror stories I've seen is two rifle failures using Renegade's adapter due to the open Dremel policy for the DIYer. Which now all of a sudden he's singing he recommends having it milled. Are you Joking me? Funny how that bites you in the ass and you sing a new song. Just like when I called him out on the modifying your mag idea that you brought back up trying to debate me on and I told you flat out you were wrong. The list just goes on....

 

Now I might be crazy but damn, from where I sit you seem to be drawn to some type of drama over these damn adapters. If you want to post a review of RB's adapter as you already have great.... notice I'm not in there trolling you over it. Just don't expect me to sit here and allow you to spread conjecture and misinformation when you have no real world experience to give an opinion. Making comments like "so I hope MSA gets things straightened out" is implying my company is still in trouble. Once again, you might not see it, this is a derogatory comment about my company. I am running, things are shipping and you have no damn clue what is going on. If you had any sense about the matter you'd watch what you say. I believe your heart might be in the right place but I question your perception of things. Just like the instruction debate... your perception was wrong and you'd rather defend it than try to understand what someone was willing to try to help you understand.

 

Seriously man some things are best left alone.... this being one. I'm humble enough to accept my fuck-ups at every turn trying to relaunch the MSA brand, but I won't allow naivety to run rampant that is detrimental or counterproductive to my cause. I've fought to hard for to long to get where I am, and where I am going.

 

I've put in 22hours today and ready to crash, I have another long day again tomorrow. There is a lot of great things coming in the coming months. Things that are gonna push MSA to the forefront again and I wake excited every morning knowing it gets closer.

[swells08 128]

Just an observation: Nate, Christcorp is not the only one who read it and thought wow..a simple "hey guys just got back from a much needed vacation...I will be in touch with existing customers ASAP. If you have not recieved confirmations please call or e-mail so I can take care of it for you." I have read all the BS that people have said, and all the debate from your supporters and potential customers. I am glad you are expanding your base of equipment, maybe you might want to have some logistic help for communications. Since I know putting in 22hrs in the shop then trying to dispell all the forum bs is a bit overwhelming. You are very bright and a visionary from what I have read. You can only do so much by yourself and with great things as you say on the horizon it might pay dividends to have someone handle communications from the production aspect. Hope to be able to see your new product line be a sucess even if it is not for the Saiga line of firearms.

[avnate 335]

Just an observation: Nate, Christcorp is not the only one who read it and thought wow..a simple "hey guys just got back from a much needed vacation...I will be in touch with existing customers ASAP. If you have not recieved confirmations please call or e-mail so I can take care of it for you." I have read all the BS that people have said, and all the debate from your supporters and potential customers. I am glad you are expanding your base of equipment, maybe you might want to have some logistic help for communications. Since I know putting in 22hrs in the shop then trying to dispell all the forum bs is a bit overwhelming. You are very bright and a visionary from what I have read. You can only do so much by yourself and with great things as you say on the horizon it might pay dividends to have someone handle communications from the production aspect. Hope to be able to see your new product line be a sucess even if it is not for the Saiga line of firearms.

 

DJ BD....

 

I did get a chance to reread what I posted after some much needed rest. Yes, my humorous attempt can be seen as a bit edgy, but that wasn't my intent. I was exhausted and overwhelmed with having to explain and defend what's going on so as to dispel all doubt while trying to remain lighthearted. This is where you'd have to know me and understand my humor to see past what some perceive as sarcasm. Or as some call it "Nate being an ass"........ Which I find extremely funny as I love edgy things just for sheer shock value.

 

Some of Christcorps comments, while may had good intentions, did rub me the wrong way. I have already debated with him before and both of us agree we do not view things the same way. Which is why I challenge his perception.... as that is the underling issue why we do not communicate with each other effectively. As I said before I have no animosity towards him, I just agree to disagree with his views.

 

I am pushing MSA harder than before with product launches and other things and will not accept failure. While I may not be liked by all, I'd rather be admired for my drive to provide innovative new products that make people say.... "DAMN! that shit is cool. I gotta have it." or "This product helps me in the field to be a more efficient soldier" These are the things that drives me to create and innovate. Anyway back to work.... lots to do and I'd like to only put in 20 hours today.

[swells08 128]

Just an observation: Nate, Christcorp is not the only one who read it and thought wow..a simple "hey guys just got back from a much needed vacation...I will be in touch with existing customers ASAP. If you have not recieved confirmations please call or e-mail so I can take care of it for you." I have read all the BS that people have said, and all the debate from your supporters and potential customers. I am glad you are expanding your base of equipment, maybe you might want to have some logistic help for communications. Since I know putting in 22hrs in the shop then trying to dispell all the forum bs is a bit overwhelming. You are very bright and a visionary from what I have read. You can only do so much by yourself and with great things as you say on the horizon it might pay dividends to have someone handle communications from the production aspect. Hope to be able to see your new product line be a sucess even if it is not for the Saiga line of firearms.

 

DJ BD....

 

I did get a chance to reread what I posted after some much needed rest. Yes, my humorous attempt can be seen as a bit edgy, but that wasn't my intent. I was exhausted and overwhelmed with having to explain and defend what's going on so as to dispel all doubt while trying to remain lighthearted. This is where you'd have to know me and understand my humor to see past what some perceive as sarcasm. Or as some call it "Nate being an ass"........ Which I find extremely funny as I love edgy things just for sheer shock value.

 

Some of Christcorps comments, while may had good intentions, did rub me the wrong way. I have already debated with him before and both of us agree we do not view things the same way. Which is why I challenge his perception.... as that is the underling issue why we do not communicate with each other effectively. As I said before I have no animosity towards him, I just agree to disagree with his views.

 

I am pushing MSA harder than before with product launches and other things and will not accept failure. While I may not be liked by all, I'd rather be admired for my drive to provide innovative new products that make people say.... "DAMN! that shit is cool. I gotta have it." or "This product helps me in the field to be a more efficient soldier" These are the things that drives me to create and innovate. Anyway back to work.... lots to do and I'd like to only put in 20 hours today.

No worries man! Enjoy the extra two hours off you lazy bastard..lol seriously just a joke...lol

[Zambidis 90]

I'm certain that if MSA keeps up their hard work and and solid customer service (quick responses to customer inquiry, fast ship times, and just treating people right generally)that appears to be characterizing their come back in market then they will do well. Unfortunately there is some baggage from the past and I think that it will continue to haunt MSA and cause a some issues with consumer confidence until MSA can build up some new goodwill with customers and log a fair amount of time with things running well. All appearances have been that this is the path MSA is on and I wish them luck.

 

To show that my well wishes are not hollow I have placed an order with MSA. I will post an evaluation of my experience.

[rigrat 7]

christcorp,

 

Give it a rest, I think everyone sees that MSA is busting his hump to get things done and quickly. Hard to work that many hours and still be as polite as he is.

 

I think he is doing a great job rebuilding his rep.

[christcorp 26]

christcorp,

 

Give it a rest, I think everyone sees that MSA is busting his hump to get things done and quickly. Hard to work that many hours and still be as polite as he is.

 

I think he is doing a great job rebuilding his rep.

Look, I gave some advice to nate. He is/was free to take it, leave it throw it away, etc... He responded/I responded. That part is all done. It was almost 24 hours ago. That is old news, and none of this has anything to do with you. In other words, MYOB. Thanks. Have a good one.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I wish people here would stop trying to judge and evaluate how MSA does business...or has done business while in the midst or big hardships...and just sit back for awhile and watch the smoke. The man who is the only one making the wheels turn, has been through more crap than many people here could take themselves, and still keep striving to go forward making kickass products for the same group of people who have largely given him way too much grief for having fallen way behind. Just try and sit on your hands for awhile, those who have such a bone to pick...wait and see for yourselves what's gonna happen, and GIVE it a chance to happen, without continually dredging up the past. If you must dwell in the past then try going back past the point when things slowed to a stop. Look back through the forum archives if you can't remember, but Nate was extremely good at communicating with customers, on here and on the phone, emails, PMs....nobody had any complaints at all about MSA and their products, only respect for the innovation and great work. Some people ordered some parts, and because of things that could not be helped, they didn't get them when they were supposed to. They got pissed eventually at not getting any updates so they started bringing the dirty laundry on the forum to air out. They all had their say. Enough is enough already. The adapters they ordered are being made now, and have been for awhile. They are even better now than what they would have gotten when they oredered, because of upgrades. They are shipping and people are reporting being very happy with them. Just give it a rest already and give the company a chance to repair any damage all that bad luck may have caused. With the freedom people are given here to say what they want about others, the drama on this forum is way out of control. When you happen to be the one who a lot of it is aimed at, you understand a lot more about how bad it is. It's funny how those who are so quick to jump up and cry foul, or try and publicly roast or humiliate someone here, in groups that just keep piling on, are never experienced in being on the receiving end of constant accusation, doubt, and verbal abuse. Once you put those shoes on for awhile, maybe you will start to understand what it's like to try and give a polite, professional reply, without losing your cool, to someone who is baiting you and just trying to dig at you or call you dishonest, or whatever other crap they are coming at you with. Yeah you could just ignore it if it was just one person, but when there are several that keep it going and trying to make you out to look like something you are not...then sometimes you need to nip that shit in the bud in front of everyone. I don't personally judge a businessman by how quick his temper may be, or make assumptions about whatever I can imagine his motives are, or what he's up to when he's not communicating with me well enough. I judge a business on their actual product quality and service (when they do communicate). People use forums to apply pressure on businesses when they aren't getting what they want. Some don't seem to understand that when there is a problem keeping a product from being produced at the moment, then no amount of public pouting and bickering about said business, is going to make that impossible thing suddenly become possible....just because they are throwing a tantrum....on several forums even. That kind of forceful behavior and lack of understanding irks the shit out of me, which is a huge part of the reason I have gotten my own self in many arguments here I would rather have avoided. I'm just that stubborn I guess that I can maybe turn someone and get them to understand that bitching isn't helping a damned thing. It's only making them feel better while doing harm to someone who does not deserve it. I've lost my own temper many times with people on here because of how they treated someone I know and trust. I have definitely lost business from some here because of it too, been told so point blank. Too bad so sad I guess. I'm not worried at all about that. I have had just as much solid support for having stuck my neck out and stood up for others when they couldn't speak for themselves. I've had people tell me "I'll never give you my business after you were just so rude and unprofessional to so and so." Then I would have three more people approach me, add me as a "friend", and ask what I have to offer. I would much rather do business with those kind of people than the same ones who are constantly starting unwanted drama on the forum. To some that may make me a cocky sumbitch they don't like. It doesn't change the fact that I'm loyal, if even to a fault, honest, and once anyone actually does do any business with me, they very quickly learn that I'm very good to do business with. You can go through my biz section and the feedback thread and see for yourself. (with the exception of a personal attack from one of my anti "fans" one in awhile) My work speaks for itself and so does Nate's. Forgive me please for my lack of communication skills when dealing with an all out assault, false accusations, needling, or some other crap I don't have time for. Just let people do their work and leave them alone to do it. If you get a part that really sucks and the business refuses to help you, like some other businesses have here....THEN you can jump their ass and "warn" everyone about them. There has been too much of that warning business, and casting of doubt based on assumptions. Let it pass already. It's a dead horse.

Sorry for the rant but I have seen way too much of it, and been on the receiving end of the BS here. This is not meant to be directed at any one person in this conversation so don't read anything like that into it. It's mainly a generalization based on a lot of shit that's happened. Please don't tell me how to act unless you have also been through as much crap on a public forum. This is directly related messes I've been in while trying to defend MSA here. I've gotten in the same messes while being too outspoken defending myself. Well I'm sorry.....let it end already. It's not easy to be called a bold face liar in public without trying your best to defend yourself.

[Zambidis 90]

I only skimmed your post cobra, the lack of paragraphs made it a difficult to read. I understand your points and there is definitely something to be said for not needing to harrow up every past deed. That said this is a discussion forum and asking people not to discuss or opine is contrary to its very nature. Opining and discussing can of course be done in a respectful way. I am believer in the market place of ideas. Let people give there say and let others counter it. Let truth compete in the market place. Let the market work its self out. Anyone who reads discussion boards has had the experience of being able to tell who is talking sense and who is just talking.

 

Open discussion is ultimately the best even if people say things in that discussion that we might thing are stupid, wrong, insulting etc. If I want to start a string of threads disparaging Tromix and Mr. Rumore (not that I ever would) I should be able to. The market place of ideas will work that out. People will see Tony is a wizard when it comes to Saigas and runs a great company they would also see that I was an idiot and someone not to pay any attention to.

 

In sum I understand your feelings but a discussion board is for discussion, there will be discussion and there should be discussion.

[avnate 335]

OK, It's 5am yet again and lots to do.....

 

Guy's this is a forum and open to debate (be it good or bad) no need to drag this out. As Zam pointed out, it will all work it's self out, one way or another, in the end. Off to the grind.............

[swells08 128]

OK, It's 5am yet again and lots to do.....

 

Guy's this is a forum and open to debate (be it good or bad) no need to drag this out. As Zam pointed out, it will all work it's self out, one way or another, in the end. Off to the grind.............

According to the post clock....it's 4:20...uhhh hummm....lol

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Discussing is different than endless whining.

[ctlaw74 0]

Short and Simple.

Nate emailed me and updated me that my 5 back ordered adapters from the pre-purchase were in production and would be shipping soon. (He also indicated that another friend of mine who bought two will be receiving his back ordered adapters as well. Great news and I will keep you all up to date.

CTLAW74