dave43 0 Posted May 7, 2010 Report Share Posted May 7, 2010 I bought a Saiga M around 2 years ago. They only had the 21" in stock. I haven't converted it yet but am having a little buyer's remorse that i didn't get the more compact 16". Tell me why I should be happy I got the longer barreled M. Maybe turn it into a Dragonuv like clone, but in .223? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elvis christ 451 Posted May 7, 2010 Report Share Posted May 7, 2010 The longer barrel provides a higher velocity than the shorter one, and from what I understand, .223 loses a good bit of accuracy when velocity is decreased. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buckmeister 11 Posted May 7, 2010 Report Share Posted May 7, 2010 I actually wanted the longer version when I bought my 16". buckmeister Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wispa78 1 Posted May 7, 2010 Report Share Posted May 7, 2010 There's nothing wrong with the longer barrel versions. If I were you I'd convert it then put a nice Russian scope and a skeleton stock on that bad boy. Saiganov Light Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pogy 5 Posted May 8, 2010 Report Share Posted May 8, 2010 (edited) Geez!! Anybody can buy a 16" barrel Saiga! Just kidding. I had the same feeling for a while when I got mine. I did do the Saiganov type conversion and I'm glad I did. Granted, in close quarters it would be a bit unwieldy but I can put some 2" groups downrange at 100 meters with reloads. Ain't nothing wrong with a POSP sight on it either. They were made to fit AK's after all. Edited May 8, 2010 by pogy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted May 8, 2010 Report Share Posted May 8, 2010 I waited three months for a 21inch before I settled on my 16 (they could not be found at the time). If I could go back I'd still want the 21 inch. 16 inch barrels are to stinking loud for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BKLYN_C 14 Posted May 8, 2010 Report Share Posted May 8, 2010 Why do you think 20" AR barrels are still being manufactured as much as 16"? Because 20" are capable to launch the bullet at higher speeds. About 200-300 f/s faster. That means further reach and deadlier wounds as majority of .223 rounds are designed to brake apart with 10-15" of travel inside the flash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
billbrasky 0 Posted May 8, 2010 Report Share Posted May 8, 2010 Dont the marines only carry a 20 inch m16 ? They cant put a folding stock on like you can. I say you have the best of both worlds. You certainly are not loosing anything unless you are in CQB and have a fixed stock, and in that case you are only 1 inch worse off than a marine. This is to say there is no negative, that i see. I wouldnt mind having a 20 inch 223 saiga to add to my collection. Put an ace folder on it and your good to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted May 8, 2010 Report Share Posted May 8, 2010 I thought the M's also had a thicker receiver like the VEPR's and that they are not making the M's anymore. I may be way off though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
epicwarrior78 0 Posted May 8, 2010 Report Share Posted May 8, 2010 Go to a reputable gun smith and give it a circumcision! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dave43 0 Posted May 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 Can anyone list a place to pick up some parts to make it into a Saiganov? Also anyone have pics of their's? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jc-75 1 Posted May 10, 2010 Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 I had the choice when i purchased mine between the two. I wish i would've gone with the 21 instead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pogy 5 Posted May 10, 2010 Report Share Posted May 10, 2010 (edited) Can anyone list a place to pick up some parts to make it into a Saiganov? Also anyone have pics of their's? I bought a Choate Mak-90/AK-47 kit and used a Dinzag lower handguard retainer. There's probably cheaper ways to go especially if you have machine shop access. I don't. This is a photo without the Choate lower and upper handguard attached. You could go this way if you like. The muzzle brake is not threaded but fastened with set screws. (Dinzag Arms, discontinued I believe) Bi-pod is a Harris and was attached with an Uncle Mike's sling stud. I did add an MSA AR-15 Mag Adapter and the Choate forgrip parts after this photo. It still has the bipod on the new setup. I used the G2 single hook trigger conversion like most folk. Edited May 10, 2010 by pogy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulry 50 Posted May 11, 2010 Report Share Posted May 11, 2010 The M16/AR15 standard length is 20"! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lunyfringe 1 Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 it depends on the round you're using, and the purpose of the rifle- I agree with putting a folding stock on it, then your overall length would be similar to an M4 (since they can't have a folding stock, only collaspable).. the standard 55gr FMJ round doesn't tumble/fragment well (which is what makes it more lethal) when below 2700fps. With an M4 (14.5" barrel), this happens at around 60 yards! 20" is where the diminishing returns start- each inch beyond 20 only adds about 40-45fps, until about 26", then it really drops off (unless you're using slow powder on reloads) If you're using heavier rounds, or hollow/soft points, then this becomes much less an issue.. which is why M4s typically have barrels with 1-in-7 twist (to stabilize heavier bullets) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BKLYN_C 14 Posted May 12, 2010 Report Share Posted May 12, 2010 it depends on the round you're using, and the purpose of the rifle- I agree with putting a folding stock on it, then your overall length would be similar to an M4 (since they can't have a folding stock, only collaspable).. the standard 55gr FMJ round doesn't tumble/fragment well (which is what makes it more lethal) when below 2700fps. With an M4 (14.5" barrel), this happens at around 60 yards! 20" is where the diminishing returns start- each inch beyond 20 only adds about 40-45fps, until about 26", then it really drops off (unless you're using slow powder on reloads) If you're using heavier rounds, or hollow/soft points, then this becomes much less an issue.. which is why M4s typically have barrels with 1-in-7 twist (to stabilize heavier bullets) For the 1/9 rate the 55gr bullet is the best match. 62 will go as well, but nothing heavier that that. So here comes the compromise: lighter bullet and longer barrel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sulphur 7 Posted May 13, 2010 Report Share Posted May 13, 2010 Here is a conversion of a 20" .223... thought it turned out pretty good... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
russiangunrunner 10 Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I've always heard the 21" shoots worse than the 16" due to harmonics, but not positve, i'd say they shoot about the same. a scoped 16" with a good fitting gas tube(not too tight) and decent loose handgaurds should shoot 2-3 inches at 100m. anything shorter than 16" is too short for 5.56 (ie, M4) if the 20" had a heavy barrel i'd be all over that... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Clay 8 Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 original M16 was 20". Then shortened to 16" at some point. current M4 is 14.5". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 I've always heard the 21" shoots worse than the 16" due to harmonics, but not positve, i'd say they shoot about the same. a scoped 16" with a good fitting gas tube(not too tight) and decent loose handgaurds should shoot 2-3 inches at 100m. anything shorter than 16" is too short for 5.56 (ie, M4) if the 20" had a heavy barrel i'd be all over that... when comparing my shooting abilities using my 20" 223, vs Vulcan1600's 16" 223; i was getting similar groupings. I could feel the shot differences in the longer/shorter barrels too. I was using brown bear 62gr HP. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulry 50 Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 Barrel Envy? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted June 2, 2010 Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 One of the best things about guns is that if you have one that you don't want, you can always sell it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dobravery 49 Posted June 4, 2010 Report Share Posted June 4, 2010 I bought one of each. My 20" out-shoots the 16" (both scoped). It could be BS, but I like to think the 20" allows for more complete and consistent powder burning for cheap ammo. If you chop, go to 18" You get the size and the motion. lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tigerclaw_x 1 Posted June 5, 2010 Report Share Posted June 5, 2010 I bought a Saiga M around 2 years ago. They only had the 21" in stock. I haven't converted it yet but am having a little buyer's remorse that i didn't get the more compact 16". Tell me why I should be happy I got the longer barreled M. Maybe turn it into a Dragonuv like clone, but in .223? Hey, if you have REAL Saiga M (0,75 inch barrel), thumb hole stock and all this, and if you don't like it, I will purchase it from you. Please, let me know if the barrel is HBAR (Vepr style) or normal rail thin saiga and if you want to sell it, how much you want for it? D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
russiangunrunner 10 Posted June 7, 2010 Report Share Posted June 7, 2010 yeah, the heavy barrel saiga(m) with thumbhole wood would be pretty badass... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted June 8, 2010 Report Share Posted June 8, 2010 Dave43, do you have a micormeter to measure the thickness of the reciever? I would like to know if they are thicker. My 223 has the heavier barrel but is not a M model. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
m1key 7 Posted June 10, 2010 Report Share Posted June 10, 2010 I finally got me a 21 inch and find I really prefer it to the 16. Less muzzle blast, longer sight radius, higher velocity, shoots groups under 1 1/2 with a scope. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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