Wrong Conversion - Disappointed

[KC913 324]

If Esteban wouldn't use the parts wanted because they are unsafe, then why take the order and charge the customer for them in the first place?...

 

"So Esteban is standing behind it even though it is customer who made things difficult"

 

Yeah, the customer made things so difficult by wanting what he paid for. How dare that stupid customer expect an awesome looking gun with expensive parts he wanted with the finish he described and was promised for the low clearance bargain basement price of only $2,370 and a mere 2 years of waiting.

 

 

[Rabid Robert 74]

 

I am just curious why Esteban hasn’t answered any of the questions on the thread????????

 

Why dont you PM Esteban? I can only guess but in past he has not gotten involved with this kind of stuff, wastes WAY too much time and he has lots of stuff to do.

 

I have a question back at you though, not you personally necessarily. Why are folks (and some gunsmiths) who have nothing to do with situation nor have any knowlege of what really happened so quick to dis Esteban? Could it be some of those folks want to distract readers from the fact GoGun has a no failure record while at least one of the pros posting has multiple failures reported with their stuff? Or is it just professional jealousy? Or are they trying to promote their own business by dissing others?

 

Like I said, in this situation, we will never know who said what, so the gun has to speak for itself and bottom line, no one has complained about the quality that has seen it, only guys dissing it for color scheme from some poor pics.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Rabid Robert

[KC913 324]

I think the biggest issue is that the builder took it upon himself to customize it how he thought it would look better, rather than going with the customers requested scheme and parts without notifying the customer before hand. Just my .02.

 

That, and a huge price tag and 2 year wait for something completely different.

Edited June 23, 2010 by KC913

[Rabid Robert 74]

If Esteban wouldn't use the parts wanted because they are unsafe, then why take the order and charge the customer for them in the first place?...

 

 

 

Simple, it was not known at the time the order was placed the parts were unsafe or some were unavailable, and when Esteban found out tried to tell customer and upgrade him for free, that's when the trouble started.

 

I repeat, unlike some other smiths, GoGun will NOT put out anything with failure or safety problems no matter what the customer says.

[Rabid Robert 74]

I think the biggest issue is that the builder took it upon himself to customize it how he thought it would look better, rather than going with the customers requested scheme and parts without notifying the customer before hand. Just my .02.

 

 

 

That is speculation on your part. As I have said before, the guys in the paint shop, dont just make up things as they go along. Why would GoGun do a north of $300 custom paint job for free without getting input from customer. That is what does not make sense from Original Poster.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Rabid Robert

[KC913 324]

Well, I can understand parts being out of stock or unavailable. But, if everything the original poster said was true, the order should of just been canceled or the price adjusted in my opinion if parts were unavailable for 2 years and the customer wasn't notified before receiving it that he would be getting cheap replacement parts and a different paint job. He could have gotten such a kick ass gun for that price from a few other big name builders with a shorter wait.

 

Not speculating, just going by what the customer said happened. I have no dog in this fight, just hate seeing shit like this.

 

Waiting to see how it looks when it is returned.

 

 

/Out

Edited June 23, 2010 by KC913

[basscat 10]

I would suggest everyone ignore this Rabid Robert guy. He's a moron - everyone reading this already knows that. He doesn't work for the company. Why on earth is he even involved in this conversation? He doesn't have a clue.

 

Yeah, there's a lot of problems with UPS. They need to start using sledge hammers to knock on doors I guess. Three times they visited the shop with "Business Closed" as the response. I seriously doubt UPS stands to gain much by carrying around merchandise in their truck for multiple days trying to deliver to a business that is repeatedly closed during normal business hours.

 

I too have never read an instance of Esteban releasing an unsafe gun. Has anyone here disputed that? Why do you keep trolling this thread with an emphasis on gun safety? Safety was never an issue. Esteban never contacted me for any modifications, safe or unsafe. Apparently the biggest problem Esteban had was dealing with incompetent employees like yourself. He openly admitted that he released a gun without inspecting it. He noted that the paint job looked horrible and it was his fault for letting it out of the shop. He also said that a former employee is responsible for the coating. Maybe this was you, Rabid Robert? Either way, that person got fired. But Esteban at least took responsibility for the lack of oversight.

 

Since when does a rail make a gun unsafe? Since when does an extended checkered safety make a gun unsafe? What part of the gun that I ordered was unsafe? The majority of what I ordered was based on a previously released 'safe' gun.

 

You're just a blow hard looking for attention. You've not contributed an ounce of legitimate information to this thread. It's nice that Esteban has friends -- but you're actually hurting him severely with your comments and you're not intelligent enough to comprehend this.

 

The master gunsmiths, or other titles who've contributed on this thread, do so because they have a passion for this. I mean 2 of them came to me and offered to help me out and finish the gun at zero expense to me. Were they trying to steal business? Give me a break! They're sick and tired of seeing people get screwed around and seeing false advertising. You're a big reason why people contribute to threads like this because they see through your bullshit and know better. So pack your bags and head back to the bridge and resume your duties as lead troll.

[Rabid Robert 74]

I would suggest everyone ignore this Rabid Robert guy. He's a moron - everyone reading this already knows that. He doesn't work for the company. Why on earth is he even involved in this conversation? He doesn't have a clue.

 

Yeah, there's a lot of problems with UPS. They need to start using sledge hammers to knock on doors I guess. Three times they visited the shop with "Business Closed" as the response. I seriously doubt UPS stands to gain much by carrying around merchandise in their truck for multiple days trying to deliver to a business that is repeatedly closed during normal business hours.

 

I too have never read an instance of Esteban releasing an unsafe gun. Has anyone here disputed that? Why do you keep trolling this thread with an emphasis on gun safety? Safety was never an issue. Esteban never contacted me for any modifications, safe or unsafe. Apparently the biggest problem Esteban had was dealing with incompetent employees like yourself. He openly admitted that he released a gun without inspecting it. He noted that the paint job looked horrible and it was his fault for letting it out of the shop. He also said that a former employee is responsible for the coating. Maybe this was you, Rabid Robert? Either way, that person got fired. But Esteban at least took responsibility for the lack of oversight.

 

Since when does a rail make a gun unsafe? Since when does an extended checkered safety make a gun unsafe? What part of the gun that I ordered was unsafe? The majority of what I ordered was based on a previously released 'safe' gun.

 

You're just a blow hard looking for attention. You've not contributed an ounce of legitimate information to this thread. It's nice that Esteban has friends -- but you're actually hurting him severely with your comments and you're not intelligent enough to comprehend this.

 

The master gunsmiths, or other titles who've contributed on this thread, do so because they have a passion for this. I mean 2 of them came to me and offered to help me out and finish the gun at zero expense to me. Were they trying to steal business? Give me a break! They're sick and tired of seeing people get screwed around and seeing false advertising. You're a big reason why people contribute to threads like this because they see through your bullshit and know better. So pack your bags and head back to the bridge and resume your duties as lead troll.

 

Well Mr. Brasscat shows his true colors with unnecessary ad hominem attacks, and what is clearly a personal attack and rant.

 

I dont need to name names on unsafe equipment, others have done that on other forums. Mr. Brasscat simply wont admit he insisted on an unsafe configuration which GoGun wont do

 

For your info, I was not and never have been an employee, only someone that has helped with a variety means and knowlege and I know pretty much what goes on there and know enough that Brasscats version is simply not possible. I have also know Esteban for 15 years and know he does not do the things Brasscat asserts.

 

And I dont troll this thread, only trying to correct some outrageous assertions on Brasscat's part. I admit things could have gone better, but Brasscat has to accept some responsibility for insisting we do things unsafely and then not liking the colors he picked.

 

And if you have so much faith in the other gunsmiths doing it for free, why dont you simply take them up on it and send them your gun instead of trying to make a federal case out of it? That seems like a great solution, then nobody else has to listen to your complaining

 

Ever read Shakespeare? "I fear he doth protest too much". (For the non literary types, it means the guy who whines the most is usually wrong.)

 

And as for your language, you dont know "sh*t" about delivery service in Hawaii. It's something Hawaii residents have been strugling with forever. And our local FFL guys are very strict about how we can provide access to the shop, so stop whining about stuff you know nothing about.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Rabid Robert

[selph arms llc 14]

I really think Esteban needs to get in on this issue.

 

No offense to Rabid Robert (you don’t work for Go Gun).

 

I would just relax and let an employee of the company, or the owner address this thread before this gets any worse.

[TacSat 90]

POPCORN,,,,PEANUTS,,,,,COLD BEER HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shandlanos 1,470]

[Rabid Robert 74]

 

I am just curious why Esteban hasn’t answered any of the questions on the thread????????

 

Why dont you PM Esteban? I can only guess but in past he has not gotten involved with this kind of stuff, wastes WAY too much time and he has lots of stuff to do.

 

I have a question back at you though, not you personally necessarily. Why are folks (and some gunsmiths) who have nothing to do with situation nor have any knowlege of what really happened so quick to dis Esteban? Could it be some of those folks want to distract readers from the fact GoGun has a no failure record while at least one of the pros posting has multiple failures reported with their stuff? Or is it just professional jealousy? Or are they trying to promote their own business by dissing others?

 

Like I said, in this situation, we will never know who said what, so the gun has to speak for itself and bottom line, no one has complained about the quality that has seen it, only guys dissing it for color scheme from some poor pics.

 

 

Are you really that paranoid? I certainly can't think of any personal benefit to most of us resulting from criticizing that company's piss-poor business practices. Distracting people from some safety record that has never been raised as an issue? Really, that's the best you can do?

 

I am confident that there is no conspiracy. A group of people did not spring in to existence with the sole intent of destroying esteban's business. Maybe he's a great guy. Maybe he's a fantastic gunsmith. I've never done business with him, spoken to him, or otherwise interacted with him or his company, so my personal experience is nil. He could be the greatest gunsmith the world's seen, and I still won't do business with him in this lifetime. It angers me to see good people screwed over by someone who appears to be in over his head, and uses empty promises of delivery dates to string folks along. Dishonesty is bad business. He has gained a reputation through his actions. There is no target on his back that he has not painted himself.

LETS SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT

 

I have investigated this situation and the words “fairy tale” has been used.

I will delineate the real facts in a moment, but first the fairly tale is by the poster and all you guys who dissed me and Esteban bought it and then piled on.

 

I never said there was a conspiracy; I only questioned why professional gunsmiths would make negative comments knowing that customer posts are not always correct.

 

Let me preface this by saying I have seen many Saiga forum guys don’t care about safety and reliability and dis guys like me who insist on it. But I do insist on it which is why GoGun has a NO FAILURE record.

 

Now the real facts,

 

Basscats conversion was NOT a GoGun/Esteban project. It was with Esteban as an individual before GoGun even existed. Yes there was initially a delay based on Esteban’s unavailability due to call up by Coast Guard for special weapons training. When he found out the parts were unsafe he notified customer.

 

When GoGun came into existence, I personally put up capital and offered refunds to ALL customers who were dissatisfied with delay . Basscat WAS OFFERED a REFUND and refused, but after custom work is completed which it was, there are no further offers of refund. And I personally footed the bill for his conversion.

 

The main thing Basscat seems to not like is the color scheme. I confirmed that he got exactly what he wanted. He talked to the paint tech personally and chose the colors with assistance of paint tech. This was after we offered to upgrade his paint job in compensation for the delay.

 

About the appearance. The Gun is now back in the shop, and the guys assure me there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, except Basscat does not like the colors he ordered. Also the finish work is up to the usual excellent GoGun Standards. Some have said they don’t like the color scheme, but that’s what Basscat speced

 

About a gunsmith’s crack that it is not custom is a load of malarkey. It is highly customized including multiple proprietary parts made by GoGun.

 

About the price, it is fair. I looked at one of the posters who complained and he charges more! Now I think his work is worth every penny, but there was nothing outrageous about our price.

 

 

The OP asked what the best way to get assistance is. Let me give you a clue. You don’t call the guy trying to help you a Moron and insult him. And you don’t tell selective facts to distort a story. Politicians do that but it wont fly with me.

 

So bottom line, Basscat got a very fine gun, was offered a refund and refused, got upgraded for free and got a safe gun instead of the unsafe one he speced.

 

 

So here is the deal now. I recommend Basscat send it to another gunsmith who he says will do it for free. Esteban wants to make it right. I am disgusted with all the fabrications and insults and recommend he go elsewhere.

 

Now I will gladly accept a retraction from any of the gunsmiths or posters who jumped to conclusions and made insults based on incorrect information.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Rabid Robert

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Man, Robert...I would just chill at this point. You sound like a nutcase.

 

Let Estaban fix the gun and be done with it. I have fucked up plenty of shit in my time, and I have no problem taking responsibility for it and it sounds like Estaban is doing just that. Everyone fucks up from time to time, no matter how holy your gunsmithing talent is. All you can do is suck it up, make it right and move on. It's not that big of a deal, my friend. If you want to help Estaban out, just let it go. You're unknowingly doing him a lot of damage here.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

[joelrod47 373]

So.............

After all the heavy drama of the last couple of years, the long lines of (dis)satisfied waiting, waiting, waiting customers, and this last bunch of bullshit..........

 

Who's next in line to sign up for a GoGun conversion ??? Anyone ???

[Rabid Robert 74]

Man, Robert...I would just chill at this point. You sound like a nutcase.

 

Let Estaban fix the gun and be done with it. I have fucked up plenty of shit in my time, and I have no problem taking responsibility for it. Everyone fucks up from time to time, no matter how holy your gunsmithing talent is. I have fucked up plenty of shit in my time and had to eat crow and make it right. It's not that big of a deal, my friend.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

 

Well Mr. Tony Rumore I did not insult you, and I am not a nut case. Nor have I insulted anyone else.

 

Nice that you admit you have f*cked up plenty of stuff. And if your customers tolerate that, which they seem to do, more power to you and congratulations to you.

 

Actually there is nothing to "fix" in this case. The gun is fine.

 

We have a different approach

We havent f*cked up anything period. And we dont tolerate f*ck ups or unsafe parts from us period .

 

If anybody else on Forum has a problem with that approach, let Tony do your gun and if he f*cks it up, you have his personal assurance he will admit it.

 

We will admit what is our fault which is this case was delay partly due to circumstances beyond our control and partly due to lack of customer cooperation.

 

Gee Tony, you think I'm a nut case because GoGun upgraded him in compensation for the delay? And you think I'm a nut case because I shelled out money out of my own pocket to try to satisfy the customer? I might be nuts for trying to be generous, but I am not a Nut case and would ask you as a gentelman to retract that remark.

 

And one final remark for anybody else who wants my help with anything, I dont respond to appeals for help from rude insulting people.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Rabid Robert

[GeorgiaPD 408]

, I was not and never have been an employee

 

 

We have a different approach We havent f*cked up anything period. And we dont tolerate fuck ups or unsafe parts from us period .We will admit what is our fault which is this case was delay partly due to circumstances beyond our control and partly due to lack of customer cooperation.

 

Although I have never used the services of Estaban or Go-Gun, I do know many people that have and most are still waiting and waiting and waiting. Therefore, if you can stand up for this company (without being an employee, your words), then others can stand up for the waiting customers whom have paid money for guns from this company. Fair is fair, right! I understand delays, but seriously, this seems on the extreme end of things here. I will leave it at that and say no more about that issue.

 

One thing that I did notice and will comment on though is your mixed wording. Maybe it is just my profession or keen spidey sense, I don't know. But for someone who openly states that they have never worked for a person or company, you sure do throw out the word "We" an awful lot in the past few posts. It can't be both at the same time. You are either a part of the issue or you are not. Just saying

Edited June 25, 2010 by GeorgiaPD

[joelrod47 373]

 

We have a different approach (and it seems to be working soooooo well for you at this point......)

 

And one final remark for anybody else who wants my help with anything, I dont respond to appeals for help from rude insulting people.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmm..........You mean people like your customers who've paid up front and ended up waiting up to a couple of years and still don't have their guns or their money ???? Are those the rude insulting people you're referring to ??

You seem to be a real piece of work there, Robert.........

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Robert,

 

When you make as much different stuff as I have, (see the 10 years of prototypes) some shit gets fucked up. I know that, you know that, and the customers know that.

Do you actually think anyone will believe that E-tac has never, ever, made anything that has broken or did not work? You can beat the drum...but no one will believe you.

Zero warranty claims? Man, that's better than any other gun manufacturer out there. In fact, I can't think of a single manufacturing company that can make that kind of claim in the history of mankind.

 

You're living in fantasy land and everyone on this forum understands that, but you.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

 

P.S. Did Estaban tell you that I coached him on building Saiga's when he first got started......I imagine so, since you're in the know....

[madmax4x4 68]

Rabid Robert you are a tool. That is all.

[Rabid Robert 74]

Robert,

 

When you make as much different stuff as I have, (see the 10 years of prototypes) some shit gets fucked up. I know that, you know that, and the customers know that.

Do you actually think anyone will believe that E-tac has never, ever, made anything that has broken or did not work? You can beat the drum...but no one will believe you.

Zero warranty claims? Man, that's better than any other gun manufacturer out there. In fact, I can't think of a single manufacturing company that can make that kind of claim in the history of mankind.

 

You're living in fantasy land and everyone on this forum understands that, but you.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

 

P.S. Did Estaban tell you that I coached him on building Saiga's when he first got started......I imagine so, since you're in the know....

 

Here is a challenge for all the naysayers on Forum, Name me just one time any GoGun part or manufactured item has failed. So Far it has not happened. So the claim is valid.

And that goes for our Shotgun, Rifle AND pistol parts. If it has happened I want to know about.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Rabid Robert

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

Rabid R,

 

Hmmm...dissing whom is said to be the #1 in conversions in the industry, continuely followed and watched......well, Momma told me if I have nothing nice to say, then well keep my mouth closed, so I'll be polite and mind my manners.

[selph arms llc 14]

I can’t believe the owner of Go Gun still hasn’t drop in and added anything to this topic.

 

After not seeing ONE response from the owner or at least an employee from Go Gun pertaining

to this customer’s problems; I can only come to one conclusion Rabid Robert is indeed

Estaban in disguise.

 

I hope i am wrong Esteban needs to reply to this thread before it gets any worse.

[Rabid Robert 74]

I can’t believe the owner of Go Gun still hasn’t drop in and added anything to this topic.

 

After not seeing ONE response from the owner or at least an employee from Go Gun pertaining

to this customer’s problems; I can only come to one conclusion Rabid Robert is indeed

Estaban in disguise.

 

I am not Esteban you know it from my PM to you!

And if I were Esteban, which I am not, I wouldn't get involved with arguing with folks who dont have the facts and jump to conclussions and wont see the truth when presented to them.

Edited June 25, 2010 by Rabid Robert

[Rabid Robert 74]

Robert,

 

When you make as much different stuff as I have, (see the 10 years of prototypes) some shit gets fucked up. I know that, you know that, and the customers know that.

Do you actually think anyone will believe that E-tac has never, ever, made anything that has broken or did not work? You can beat the drum...but no one will believe you.

Zero warranty claims? Man, that's better than any other gun manufacturer out there. In fact, I can't think of a single manufacturing company that can make that kind of claim in the history of mankind.

 

You're living in fantasy land and everyone on this forum understands that, but you.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

 

P.S. Did Estaban tell you that I coached him on building Saiga's when he first got started......I imagine so, since you're in the know....

 

Here is a challenge for all the naysayers on Forum, Name me just one time any GoGun part or manufactured item has failed. So Far it has not happened. So the claim is valid.

And that goes for our Shotgun, Rifle AND pistol parts. If it has happened I want to know about it.

[selph arms llc 14]

Here is a copy of your pm you sent to me, and the moderators can verify this by going into my in box; so where does it confirm that you are not Estaban and indeed Robert?????

 

Dear Selph,Thanks for the no offense remark. And I know you have said some complementary things about GoGun products before and thanks for that.However, I know and can do far more at GoGun than you know.I dont want Esteban involved in a Forum dispute.And Basscat was VERY selective in what he said.That being said if you want to "fix" the customers gun for free, that's a very generous offer and would encourage you to do it if you want.But please do not make any disparaging remarks or egg that Basscat on.I repeat the question to you, as a gunsmith would you deliver a gun you knew was unsafe even if the customer insisted on it? We have a no failure policy at GoGun, No failures period.I will look into this further but that gun was not even a GoGun project. GoGun was essentially doing what you offered, complete it for free.And if you want to blame someone for our zero tolerance policy of failure, that's me. I insist on it.And although this is not for Forum publication, he was offered a refund and declined, but we will no longer honor a refund request for custom work already completed and when the refund offer was already declined.

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

I dont understand your post.I never dissed Tony on this forum, It is the other way arround big time.If I were moderator I would not allow lies to be posted and then have someone else take advantage of it for no other reason than to increase his business. I have learned the term of art in Forums is dogpiling.The real reason Tony is so sucessful is that his stuff is cheap and shows it. If you want cheap have Tony do it. I am fine with that. But dont dis us for INSISTING on quality.Not for publication, but we have seen Tony's parts and frankly they are rubbish and not up to standard, which is why GoGun will not use them. You guys dont seem to care about quality or truthor safety. So be it. Im done. And frankly I would be pleased not to get any of the kind of customers your forum members seem to egg on.It is very odd that Saiga Forum guys seem to be the only guys I have ever seen in all of my many years in Firearms that dont give a rip about the NUMBER ONE CARDINAL RULE of firearms, safety. Well I do, and you will never change my mind on that.,It's absolutely amazing to me, people are attacking me personally that they know nothing about. And I am the guy who could help them. So if that's the way you want it, fine. None of your guys get help from me. And all your forum supporters can just take their chances.

 

Amazine! Just frick'n amazing!

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Now that's some funny shit right there...........

[selph arms llc 14]

This thread is getting very interesting.

[BobAsh 582]

Fugettabouttit

 

 

Edited June 25, 2010 by BobAsh

[selph arms llc 14]

Now that's some funny shit right there...........

Tony

Did you get all moved into the new shop? I know firsthand moving all the machines and equipment to our new shop was a big pain in the ASS.