Wrong Conversion - Disappointed

[chaseface 41]

I just read this whole thread and it totally blew my mind. But I'm happy to see that E-tac has tried to make it right with you. I'm sorry it took you so long to get what you wanted (or close to what you wanted) but the finished product is one bad-a^* gun. I wish I had that kinda money to invest in mine tho I don't think I could wait half that long to get it. That Robert guy is a trip man. Cocaine is a hell-uv-a drug

[selph arms llc 14]

Basscat

 

any word on your gun yet???

[basscat 10]

Basscat

 

any word on your gun yet???

 

Hi,

 

Not since early last week. I settled on a '5 rail' modification to help offset the extended fore grip. I saw some pictures of this '5 rail' system Esteban did a few years ago and it looked good. It looks like a little one inch rail that bolts to the barrel in front of the gas tube. Well, it looked better than leaving the Ultimak rail sticking out there an inch or two. From the sound of things it was going to be a big deal to get that Ultimak rail flush with the end of the gas tube. Though, they told me that they'd do whatever I wanted. But I was reading between the lines and it seemed that having the modifications to make the Ultimak flush wasn't a wise decision. Though, that's exactly what the picture I posted a few posts above this one show (a flush mount Ultimak rail). There's the half moon problem that occurs by cutting down the rail. But somehow he did it in that picture (scroll up to see the picture). The brand really didn't (doesn't) matter to me. I wanted a nice looking, sturdy rail and this flush mounted Ultimak rail was the one Esteban sent me a couple of years ago and I chose that vs. the the flimsy plastic fore grip. I now see that he produces his own fore grip. Seems to me that would have been a better choice if he knew this Ultimak was going to be too hard to modify. But as so many on this board have pointed out - bird in the hand is probably my best choice. The gun is complete. He has to manufacture this 5th rail that will bolt on to the barrel. They could not say how long that was going to take.

[Garys4598 1,065]

. . . The gun is complete. He has to manufacture this 5th rail that will bolt on to the barrel. They could not say how long that was going to take.

It's all I can do to simply bite my lip!

 

[basscat 10]

. . . The gun is complete. He has to manufacture this 5th rail that will bolt on to the barrel. They could not say how long that was going to take.

It's all I can do to simply bite my lip!

 

 

Ha - Yeah, that's a tough call. Maybe Vegas can set odds on the # of weeks

[selph arms llc 14]

. . . The gun is complete. He has to manufacture this 5th rail that will bolt on to the barrel. They could not say how long that was going to take.

It's all I can do to simply bite my lip!

 

 

Ha - Yeah, that's a tough call. Maybe Vegas can set odds on the # of weeks

 

Basscat

Any updates???

[robertparker 0]

I ordered an SBS conversion for two Saigas with E-tac in early March of this year. I have read numerous forums about the few gunsmiths who do quality work on Saigas and I would have preferred to have had Tromix do the conversion but at the time they were not taking any new orders so I went with E-tac. Esteban told me that the conversion would only tax 1 to 2 months so I sent him 50% down along with the guns.

 

Three weeks later he contacted me and said they were done. He also said that I should go with the Lava Shield and gave me a discount which I accepted and sent in my final payment for all services. Then I waited and waited, nothing. Contacted Esteban, he said that he didn't like the hand guard and was making his own. Waited another month or so, nothing. Contacted him again and he said just waiting for the Lava Shield. Waited another month, nothing. Contacted again, he said that he couldn't get time on the CNC machines to make the hand guard. Now it's August and he was paid in full at the end of March.

 

I certainly do not mind waiting for quality work but is unacceptable. I have sent several emails to him over the past couple of weeks and he has failed to return any of them. I called the other day but no answer and no return call. I understand delays as there are always unexpected problems that come up but I cannot think of many for an operation like this. The extensive delays along with a near total lack of communication (the only time Esteban initiated contact was to say that the final payment was due) are just completely unacceptable.

 

I am sure Esteban reads these forums and I am sure he knows who I am so I expect to hear from him this week with an exact date I can expect to receive my guns with the high quality he is supposedly known for. If I do not hear from him then I believe my next call will be to my attorney as I will not be waiting 23 months for sub-standard work like the person who initiated this discussion has had to endure.

[basscat 10]

I wanted to provide an update. I did receive the shotgun a couple of weeks ago. Many of you saw the pictures that Craig posted. Overall I'm pleased with it. The finish came out really nice. Though, there was a small nick on the rail, but I was able to cover it up with a black marker. It has the exact 'gloss' that I was wanting. The craftsmanship is great. All of the correct parts this time...

 

I've not been able to shoot it yet, though.

 

I had a long discussion with Esteban about the Ultimak rail (see my earlier concerns). He simply said he'd do whatever I wanted to make me happy. That's what you expect to hear after dropping $2,370 two years earlier, right? He said if I didn't like it he would cut the rail down and make it flush. He said he could also put a different rail on if I wanted. He wasn't trying to force me to make a decision. He said if I decide that I want to change it to just send it back and he'd do whatever I wanted at no cost. That's certainly reassuring.

 

In the meantime I'm waiting for his '5th rail system' to be created. This is going to be a 'one-off' creation of a small rail that will bolt to the barrel. The idea is that this rail will fill the visual void caused by the Ultimak rail that sticks out a few inches beyond the gas port. I was able to view some pictures of prior versions of this 5th rail and I liked what I saw. Esteban assured me that the finish of this rail would match my gun because he used a specific ratio of polymers that would be easy to duplicate. So that's all well and good. He said it may take two to three months to get this done. I'm okay with that. I hope it doesn't turn out to be 6+ months, though. I don't want this to turn out to be a 3 president gun

 

I've seen a lot of positive changes with Esteban / E-TAC over the past 3 months. Maybe this is a sign of good things to come. There's no doubt he does good work. You will be hard pressed to find anyone to say otherwise. But that hasn't been the issue. The issues were based on broken promises. Though, he did fail to oversee 'Version #1' that was sent to me in May, he took full responsibility for the slip up and 'Version #2' is day & night in comparison.

 

In conclusion, for now, I'm pleased with the work. When I receive the 5th rail and mount it I will take some pictures and post for everyone to see.

 

As you can see I've provided a fair and honest review from the pre-order all the way through receiving version #2. It's been a rocky road no doubt. Everything that I've said can be verified and I don't believe in using opinions when it comes to these matters. Facts are Facts...

 

By the way, Esteban has recently created a new hand guard that looks very nice. In hindsight if I would have known this was available I probably would have chose it over the Ultimak rail since it would have been a flush mount.

 

Basscat

[sbishop 4]

[WILLIEVEE 15]

First, did you notice the Hello where are you time after time or that may have been you. Give him a chance to man up then send him a round trip ticket and kick his ass. Tomix and Red Jacket are not the only other quaility builders we have on the forum, although I don't think you would receive this from them or our other vendors. But if you look at the sight there are volumes of people asking where the hell are you? Again give the man a chance to step up to the bar and make it right. Second I hate a thieve thus option two, see how that Lava shield works up close and personal. How big a boy is he?

Good luck and best wishes getting this resolved.

Just my 2 cents.

[bigdog6421 2]

This is a joke! I cannot understand why a company of this size would even allow posts like this without doing everything in its power to fix the issue and save face! The website shows 1-3 weeks delivery on custom projects, shows "ready to ship" semi custom packages, etc, and they hose someone who spends 2300 dollars? where are the companies responses to this? I understand they would not want to get into details on this on the forum, but what about showing they are a strong vendor centered around service, and that they are working to fix the "issues" with the customer? I personally will be sure to steer clear of them going forward, and I cannot even wrap my arms around the number of people reading this who are doing the same. burning bridges with 10k people to cover 1 issue, thats good business.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Just read the whole thread and holy shit am I glad I went with Lone Star Arms.

 

I had my S-12 back within a month after Mike received it. She was performance-tuned, (still unique), with custom handguard, "extra" receiver holes filled with mil-spec polymer and sanded flush, (not welded, I don't want that done to my gun), AK-builder triggerguard more solidly attached, (Mike brazed some parts together and attached it to the receiver even more permanently than I had), refinished, etc.

 

A lot more unique custom work was done than what I see in the pics of basscat's S-12, and I had it back in my hands in a matter of weeks, not fucking years, (which is an insane delay for a pre-paid service).

 

basscat, I'm glad that things ultimately turned out ok for ya.. but I gotta say, your patience is far greater than mine, (I think it's almost saintly). I would have demanded a full refund over a year ago...

 

ymmv.

Edited September 6, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[lvjeffro 30]

wow...I almost sent this guy my firearm and money...I bought a few things from him and those transactions went OK, and with the way warrior judges firearms came out, I was all but ready to send my firearm to him...God have mercy, I didnt...you lost all my business from this point forward...

 

OP, glad you got your firearm back and it actually looks sweet...to the others...sorry and I pray for you...

[E-TAC 47]

Unfortunately a lot of folks are being misled on this topic and we want to set the record straight. Also unfortunately, for whatever reason, the forum moderators have not allowed our spokesman to correct perceived problems

 

Regarding BassCat’s gun. As our spokesman correctly stated, his story is not entirely correct and is selective in representing what really happened.

 

In a nutshell BassCat ordered a gun directly from Esteban BEFORE GoGun was even in existence. Esteban’s personal conversion work was interrupted and delayed by Military call up for Special Weapons and Tactics training due to the war. His order was further delayed by his insistence on specs for components Esteban deemed unsafe. When GoGun came into existence in early 2009, BassCat was offered a refund in full. However he opted to decline the refund and he changed his order changed multiple times resulting in delays. To add a further delay after his gun was complete and in his hands he AGAIN changed his mind deciding he did not like the custom color scheme he picked and sent back again for refinishing that was done at no charge.

 

Let’s be really clear on what GoGun can do with Saiga Conversions. Since GoGun began Saiga Conversions in 2009, we have shipped over 150 Saiga Conversions.

ALL are of superb quality and most shipped out on time quickly. A handful were delayed for odd ball reasons. And there are still a handful of waiters for one particular reason or another. We admit we have been poor in updating customers of their status. This was done for one simple reason. Talking to customers about updating their status was taking about a half day of gunsmith time for no productivity and often resulted in change orders that delayed things further.

 

If you have an “Old order” from Esteban Personally or our predecessor ETAC, there are indeed a handful of those that are delayed. GoGun has agreed to complete those orders at the old low rates. If you place a “new order” now with GoGun, you will be given an approximate completion time that generally ranges from weeks to a few months at most.

 

About “how custom” these firearms are. We honestly believe we have the most custom and best built Saiga conversions in the business, period. Many of our custom features are not obvious but here is just one of many examples. GoGun Saiga conversions come with custom battle tough strengthening plates welded and fitted to make one of the strongest receivers in the business (using our own very beefy custom backplate and custom battle tough TG/PG assembly receiver plate)

 

Here are the facts and we challenge anyone to show different.

 

NO ONE has been stiffed by GoGun.

Every single part and firearm shipped by GoGun has been FAILURE FREE. That’s correct, no part or Firearm from GoGun has ever failed period. Others say that is not possible but we CHALLENGE anyone to show different.

 

The Saiga forum has lots of posts on failure of all sorts, many from well known manufacturers, but no failures for GoGun. That should tell you something.

[TacSat 90]

133 post late.but nice to finally have the full story... hope rabidrobert is not a spokes person for go gun. he was nothing less than inflammatory.

[HarvKY 72]

Is it just me - or does that Ultimak rail look lonely and lost?

Looks like it's sticking out an inch or two beyond the gas tube.

 

 

Here's a picture Esteban sent me in June 2008 prior to my order.

This conversion was either shortened, or it was ordered in a shorter version.

 

Anyone with Ultimak experience please chime in - or chime in with your opinions.

 

Thanks

Basscat

 

Original correspondence dated June 3, 2008:

 

Did you want the Ultimak rail HG like this? If so I will adjust your quote. At this point I quoted you the Galil hand guard like the picture from the link you emailed me (http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=25683). This shotgun is Texas compliant.

 

 

The picture of what you requested is indeed cut down IMO.

It looks to have 20 cross slots.

 

It looks to me like he just slapped the "Standard" lower tri-rail for AK's (not necessarily S12's) becuase they have the 23 cross slots like in the picture where its obviously not mated up correctly in the gun youve been waiting for all this time.

http://www.ultimak.com/ACR2.htm

 

Best of luck

 

Harv

[lvjeffro 30]

it isnt the fact that anyone was stiffed...you were decieving when you asked for the remainder of the money for a completed job and the firearm was not actually completed...that right there would have had me on a plane to the island state real quick...that customer had a patience only rivaled by god himself, even the pope would have given you a firm back hand over such an obvious deception...

 

Rabid robert pmed me and told me that my opinionwas WRONG, so I had to come back for another round...Whoever rabid robert is, he is pure fail as a spokesman for anything, let alone a company, and it is his blind fervor for go guns that will probably drive more people away from your "company" haha, then your unacceptable time frames, as well as your decieving a customer as stated above.

 

that is pure, 100% shoddy business ethics to any human today!!! The worst faux paux i could ever imagine, was sending any customer that spent 2300 on an ak platform, that horrid mess of a multi colored turd that you sent the OP...I would have freaked out...

 

there is nothing to excuse the whole situation...NOTHING, even if the customer kept asking for more modifications, or unsafe mods, he would not have been able to ask for additional mods if you would have just done his firearm in a timely manner, the way he wanted, or told him that he wanted something that go guns was not going to do and give him a refund and tell him to have a nice day...

 

This is goguns fault 100%...you saw $$$ and did whatever you wanted without regard to your customers wants and wishes...thats why you will probably never get any money out of this group of suckers, oh i mean potential customers again...Especially this sucker...

 

you can sugarcoat a turd and call it candy, doesnt make it tasty now does it???

 

PS- i've said my peace...im done with this...have a great day...

Edited September 8, 2010 by lvjeffro

[Garys4598 1,065]

Edited September 9, 2010 by Gary

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Good fucking lord man, how long are y'all gonna keep on beating this dead horse....