Magwell vote

[Heath_h49008 442]

I have noticed other polls never mentioned the Russian, or the R&R... Why?

 

Is the R&R worth double the price?

Is the Russian one just too big a pain in the keister?

 

Am I just paying for a name?

[going12220 125]

I haven't seen the Russian ones for sale other than installed on the gun on an overseas site. It's my understanding they're plastic and that's most likely ok, but there's plastic and there's plastic.

I think the R&Rs only work with Surefire and I've got a pile of AGP, plus some Pro-mags, and a couple of Surefire.

The Travers AGP works with all of them so I'm not depending on 1 brand mag.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Is R&R a sponsor here? I personally don't care for that one because of the length of it and I don't like the release design. That's just my opinion though. I like to stick to the original design as much as possible.

 

I have the Russian magwell on one of my guns and can tell you it's more of a PITA to install, permanently ruining you receiver for ever using anything else (including going back to standard rock and lock mags, unlike the JTE magwells), it's harder to get the mags to drop free and still work well, it's more expensive, takes longer to get in your hands here in the states, and if you want to use the real Russain magwell mags, instead of fitting AGP mags to it, they are very expensive and also hard to find.

 

I just got a JTE AGP style magwell on a trade for some of my stuff. I intend to use it on one of my S-12s when I get all the parts together for the new bullpup build. I hope it will work better and be easier to use than the Russian one is. I know for a fact it will be a lot easier to install, and can be made to work with both the AGP and SGM mags.

 

[Heath_h49008 442]

I thought R&R was a sponsor. They have a link on the header.

 

I was worried about one quote I read where it was said they had to ADD material to the Surefires to make them run in the AGP. That sounds like a bit of a pain.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the Russian... I can stop trying to find one.

 

I also don't like the looks of the release on the R&R either. For what I do, I would be worried about damaging it, or getting it caught. (I'm sure it is a bit faster for a race gun.)

[havok 21]

I just seen this last night, Surefire Gun Mags magwell.

MAA

[sapper1371usmc 107]

I just seen this last night, Surefire Gun Mags magwell.

MAA

 

Its plastic, and still requires modifications to their mags. For that price, you might as well spend 10 dollars more and get the JT magwell.

[Heath_h49008 442]

I agree... if given the choice, $10 is worth it for metal.

[going12220 125]

Now you do understand all the mags have to be modified to work with a magwell and they won't rock and lock afterwards, at bare minimum the front lock tab is removed.

 

To get the Surefires to fit a little better all I did was super glue a piece of thin plastic on the back to tighten it up where it hits on the magwell.

Edited May 24, 2010 by going12220

[raidersfan_5544 57]

I say NO mag well at all:

 

-cant use drum

-easy enough to load a mag on a closed bolt

-wait patinetly for Cobra's LRBHO to come out

Edited May 24, 2010 by raidersfan_5544

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I thought R&R was a sponsor. They have a link on the header.

 

I was worried about one quote I read where it was said they had to ADD material to the Surefires to make them run in the AGP. That sounds like a bit of a pain.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the Russian... I can stop trying to find one.

 

I also don't like the looks of the release on the R&R either. For what I do, I would be worried about damaging it, or getting it caught. (I'm sure it is a bit faster for a race gun.)

 

I didn't know if they were or not....I was posting that as a question about why there doesn't seem to be a lot of talk of their magwell just like you asked. I will go back and edit my post before the shitstorm begins...If they are a sponsor my apologies for not knowing. I have only had personal experience using the JT and the Russian ones.

 

[Doug Hartley 526]

Yes, R&R Targets is a sponsor here.

 

The R&R magwell was designed to provide additional support around the magazine so that 20 round magazines could be used. If you trim a Surefire mag to fit in any other magwell and then make it into a 20 rounder, the additional weight causes too much stress on the small remaining area that locks into the gun and will cause the mag to fail. With the R&R magwell there is a large funneled area and then a straight section that provides support. The mags are CNC milled to fit the magwell, which includes a slot on the side of the mag to hold the mag in place. No material is added to the mag. Since Robert Wright developed this magwell a over year ago we have not had a single mag break probably because the mag catch only keeps the mag from sliding out. Inserting magazines is actually easier than on my ARs. They slide right in and snap into place.

 

I just finished the FNH Midwest Multigun Championships and I started with 22 rounds in my Saiga on every stage I was allowed to start with the shotgun full.(my 20 round Surefire mag holds 21, plus one in the chamber)

 

Is this the best magwell design? It depends on what you need but if you are interested in the fastest mag changes you can get, its hard to beat the R&R magwell.

 

Doug

 

Saiga Mag Change Video:

 

Me on Stage 2 at the FNH Midwest Multigun Championships:

[Heath_h49008 442]

Doug, If money was no option, I would be on the phone to you in the morning. Without offending anyone else, I find your build to be the closest to what I want in a shotgun.

 

I love the left side bolt handle, love the AR style safety, and I love the function of the magwell. The release lever isn't the biggest issue... Honestly, I still might buy one of your magwells.

 

If you had a functional LRBHO, and the bolt release to go with it, I would have no other desire. I got used to counting rounds with my G3 when I ran it in ACTS, and I know tactical reloads are better than running the gun dry, but I prefer the bolt locking back. When I'm in a hurry, and the trigger goes snap, I always wonder if I miscounted, or just had a failure...either way, I will often just transition to my sidearm and sort it out after I'm done.

 

To be honest, I'm trying to get as close to your build as I can. I can tig weld the left side bolt handle myself, I don't need the porting or the chokes, and other than cleaning up any issues, plan to leave the gas system alone. (I have an idea for a lrbho of my own design, if I feel very frisky.) I just want to build it once and be done with it, so if the other magwells have issues, I might as well buy yours. That's why I added yours to the poll. I want to hear from guys who have used them, because I'm interested... even though it may be more than I need.

[Ductapeman 1]

Where's the poll option for "Doing Fine Without One???"

[IPSC_GUY 3]

Where's the poll option for "Doing Fine Without One???"

 

 

Alas the mag well takes the gun into a new dimension of being usable, it REALLY does. The difference is just night and day. The left side charging handle, also an evolutionary step forward. Once you pick one up a run it you will look at the un-modded Saiga as truly pedestrian.

 

SORRY but it is true.

 

That being said I have a JT Travers first gen mag well (actually a couple of them and a a bunch of modded AGP mags. I have gone to the R&R mag well with the Surefire mags to go with it. All I can say is OHHHH BUDDY ! ! !

 

Doug knows what I am talking about.

 

IPSC_GUY

SIERRA II ALPHA

[Ductapeman 1]

Please pardon me- really not trying to be obstructive-- mereloy an observation. How do you make one of Mike's drums work with a mag well?? That is the biggest block to my trying one, at this point.

 

Also, back before the Assault Weapon Ban (yes, kids, I'm an Old Fart) someone was making a stock (I believe it was for a Mini-14) in which the fore end functioned the operating rod, like a slide-action shotgun. It looked to be blazing fast for clearing misfires and misfeeds. Then the Ban hit and many good ideas were swept away as folks grabbed anything they could get of a Preban nature. I have thought ever since that a sliding fore end would be a serious advantage in an AK for three-gunning . . . or in a Saiga. Apropos of nothing-- just saying.

[Heath_h49008 442]

Please pardon me- really not trying to be obstructive-- mereloy an observation. How do you make one of Mike's drums work with a mag well?? That is the biggest block to my trying one, at this point.

 

Also, back before the Assault Weapon Ban (yes, kids, I'm an Old Fart) someone was making a stock (I believe it was for a Mini-14) in which the fore end functioned the operating rod, like a slide-action shotgun. It looked to be blazing fast for clearing misfires and misfeeds. Then the Ban hit and many good ideas were swept away as folks grabbed anything they could get of a Preban nature. I have thought ever since that a sliding fore end would be a serious advantage in an AK for three-gunning . . . or in a Saiga. Apropos of nothing-- just saying.

 

Odd... I had a similar idea, but one that could use a mounting rail as it's guide and mount with a VFG as a handle pull a trigger to unlock it and slam her back to actuate the bolt. The issue is allowing the bolt to fly forward fast enough to develop enough energy to load the round and lock up.

 

That and it's one more damn thing to get snagged, break, and add mass.

[Ductapeman 1]

I have no doubt that such a VPG system could be operated smartly enough to allow the bolt to return to battery freely. I would be very surprised if that weren't the case. The snagging and breakage, though, could be an issue. In the old stock I seem to remember that a purpose-built op rod was provided-- but it was a very long time ago . . .

[Heath_h49008 442]

I actually have purchased and mounted a 1st gen JT AGP magwell, and I love it! I did a little tweaking on my own, but she was simple and works like a dream!

[lionheart3 5]

Reference to the magwells. They can be a problem as it takes quite a bit of modification to the magazine to make them work and they are a compromise between reliability and speed.

 

The magwell design is what keeps me awake at night, figuring out how to make it 100% reliable.

 

Last night I worked on a simple modification and I now have 100% reliability, straight in insertion and positive lock. It is incredible how well it works.

 

I will post a video this evening and go into detail. It can easily be fitted to all existing JT Engineering Magwells for 100% reliability. Magazines falling out will be a thing of the past.

 

 

 

from what I understand JT is still working on getting his magwell 100%

 

my question are R&R magwells 100% now ?

 

I am asking because I see that : R&R have longer magwells which means more support also it has better and more positive side mag catch which helps locking the mags in.

 

Also I THINK R&R CNC-machine The mags ? which make them all standard.

 

Now I could conclude that R&R magwells are the best magwells out there.

 

I am going to order one of their guns soon, and I will post a report.

Edited July 15, 2010 by lionheart3

[Chowderhead72 13]

Lionheart: Why do you keep pushing this thread to the top? Magwells are a non-issue right now with the recent proliferation of inexpensive drums and promises of double stacks. I also have the ability to delete my vote and vote again to bring this currently pointless thread to the top but choose not to atleast until it once again becomes relavent. Take a not so subtle hint.

[ufo 20]

I say NO mag well at all:

 

-cant use drum

-easy enough to load a mag on a closed bolt

 

 

I don't think so. It depends on used drums. No problems with drums for Molot Vepr 12 or russian magwells used on saigas.

[Zambidis 90]

I personally went with the JTE mag well for AGP mags. The reason I chose the AGP version was a simple one. I had about 10 AGP mags and I was able to pick up 10 more for about $300. It would have cost me about $200 more to get 10 surefires. The first AGP mags I had all ran great out of the box. The last ten I got, not so much. Several of them needed a little tuning. In short, I had to sand down various spots inside where shells would hangup mid mag. One that was done they ran fine.

 

I cannot say that the JTE AGP setup is necessarily better or worse than any other setup as it is the only mag well I have run. I can say that I am happy with mine and consider the mag well to be one of the very best additions I have made to my S12. Reloads are much quicker and more or less bobble proof with the mag well.

[zenman223 460]

Lionheart: Why do you keep pushing this thread to the top? Magwells are a non-issue right now with the recent proliferation of inexpensive drums and promises of double stacks. I also have the ability to delete my vote and vote again to bring this currently pointless thread to the top but choose not to atleast until it once again becomes relavent. Take a not so subtle hint.

 

now i see, i wondered how this old thread got to the top yesterday when there was no new posts on it, also why would you do that if you have already concluded which is the best out there? do you have a report to share on their magwells yet?

[Roan 19]

now i see, i wondered how this old thread got to the top yesterday when there was no new posts on it?

 

This is a poll and I've read in other places on the forum that voting will shift thread position the same as a new post will. Someone was being yelled at because he would constantly vote and unvote in order to bump his thread up.

[zenman223 460]

yeah i get it, i meant why would you keep doing that to bump it to the top if youve already decided which one you think is best and you would return with a review of said product. i get he's trying to get other people to see it and vote or whatever but why if you already made up your mind? the question was directed to the OP, thanks though

[Zambidis 90]

How do you make one of Mike's drums work with a mag well?? That is the biggest block to my trying one, at this point.

 

You don't. I have a MD20 drum and if I feel the need, or more likely desire, to use it then the magwell comes off pretty easily and quickly. For the most part the mag well stays on. I usually only put the drum on when I want attention or to show off the gee whiz factor of a 20 round drum. For my purposes I find the mag well and ten rounders to be preferable. The drum is just too heavy and bulky and I for many things prefer the reload speed the mag well allows. For example doing a transition to slugs. Overall I feel like the mag well is a more practical set up. If I had to choose between a mag well and a drum I would choose the mag well. But that is just me and how I use my gun.

[arjandommisse 0]

[ufo 20]

How do you make one of Mike's drums work with a mag well?? That is the biggest block to my trying one, at this point.

 

You don't. I have a MD20 drum and if I feel the need, or more likely desire, to use it then the magwell comes off pretty easily and quickly. For the most part the mag well stays on. I usually only put the drum on when I want attention or to show off the gee whiz factor of a 20 round drum. For my purposes I find the mag well and ten rounders to be preferable. The drum is just too heavy and bulky and I for many things prefer the reload speed the mag well allows. For example doing a transition to slugs. Overall I feel like the mag well is a more practical set up. If I had to choose between a mag well and a drum I would choose the mag well. But that is just me and how I use my gun.

 

I take both. Magwell and drum...

[Heath_h49008 442]

yeah i get it, i meant why would you keep doing that to bump it to the top if youve already decided which one you think is best and you would return with a review of said product. i get he's trying to get other people to see it and vote or whatever but why if you already made up your mind? the question was directed to the OP, thanks though

 

 

I suppose I should end this thread with the review of the Magwell I purchased...

 

I picked up 2 actually, a first gen, and a second gen JT AGP http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-312/AGP-Saiga-12-Magazine/Detail

 

They run exceptionally well, and my only advice would be to give a bit of play when you mount it, so you can play with a few thousandths before you lock it down. They also LOVE Promag stick mags. It may sound weird, but after having 2 AGP mags break springs, I only use Promags for my HD/SHTF/WROL bag. They have yet to have an issue of any kind.

 

As for the issues of drums...

 

The drum manufacturers will be adding a neck to their designs much like the European "Max Rounds" as soon as the Russians or someone else gets the fully restored/ non-neutered Spetsnaz versions on the market.

 

The Russian military has chosen magwells... why not you?

 

(I am in the process of moving. I will post some photos of my finished shortly.)

[ufo 20]

That was question... Why to make whole new magwell for magazines when i can use and improve russian one?

Only purposeful answer - 922r compliant - i guess.