US Army finally admits AK more effective than M4

[SaigaNoobie 66]

i have hit 18" steel plates at 560yrds with my IRON sights on my Saiga 7.62x39. I've shot under an INCH with my .308 saiga using Federal GMM 168gr bullets. And with Brown Bear .308, shot 6" groups. You can't judge accuracy with shit ammo. Shit ammo is for trigger practice, not accuracy.

[eric1785 15]

1911,m1 garand, bar,thompson, and 1903, should have never stopped using them, as our country gets older people get dumber.

[Ruffian72 548]

Cake or Pie? Compare weapon or shooter or location. Germans in WWI use to mock USMC until their 30.06 Springfields laid them out. The 8mm Mauser was very cable of returning fire and just as accurate, just that the German soldier was not. Was many field reports in the 80's of the battles in Africa, FnFal armed troops taking out large #'S of AK armed enemy before becoming in danger of return fire. Over open ground, best trained troops with long distance firepower wins. That same battle rifle is not as effective in close quarter or heavy vegetation situations. So, cake or pie?

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

When speaking of the AK there will never be any mention of the S308 which resolves many issues of the intermediate x39 cartridge. Range is increased as well as average accuracy due in large part to the round itself.

[VladTepes 160]

When speaking of the AK there will never be any mention of the S308 which resolves many issues of the intermediate x39 cartridge. Range is increased as well as average accuracy due in large part to the round itself.

 

 

I wanted to do a Saiga in 308.. but there seems to be a lack of parts... like I really like my Ultimak stuff and NONE of that is usable on the 308.. maybe one day..

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

That may be a problem but since all I ever do is change out the sights and keep a scope zeroed for the 308, though I rarely use it, Tapco pretty much has the furniture covered. My big gripe with the 308 is like everyone else, ammo cost. That seems to be coming down also just not as fast as the x39.

[VladTepes 160]

That may be a problem but since all I ever do is change out the sights and keep a scope zeroed for the 308, though I rarely use it, Tapco pretty much has the furniture covered. My big gripe with the 308 is like everyone else, ammo cost. That seems to be coming down also just not as fast as the x39.

 

 

at least you can shoot wolf in a Saiga.. I have a DPMS in 308 that i can't bring myself to feed cheap steel cased stuff to..

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

No that rifle will not like steel case it was designed for brass and only brass ammo. But if you can afford that rifle you can afford throwing a buck or two a shot down range right?

[VladTepes 160]

No that rifle will not like steel case it was designed for brass and only brass ammo. But if you can afford that rifle you can afford throwing a buck or two a shot down range right?

 

 

once the scope is dialed in.. YES.. im just dreading the cost of dialing in the scope..... LOL

Edited June 12, 2010 by DamagedWorld

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Brother do I ever understand your problem...

[eric1785 15]

Just bore sight it to get it on the paper then fiire a 3 shot group aiming dead center, adjust your scope and shoot again, it shouldnt take much ammo. And if you group is not very close together its because your moving to much.

[raidersfan_5544 57]

"You are laughing but if you read the article it says the "AK-47s are not the problem" but rather that the US Army is outgunned by the guys with "sniper rifles". Most of those "sniper rifles" are Mosins and Enfields."

 

Still laughing.The price? There are way better options than Enfields and Mosin Nagants to supply our army with

Edited June 13, 2010 by raidersfan_5544

[mgconnor13 206]

I still think the best option is having lots of options. The more flexible your weapons the better. A squad equipped with a variety of weapons will be able to handle a variety of situations. We need to focus on having many solution instead of looking for magic bullets. I Vote we invest in diversifying the armory instead of replacing it. A light weight MG or an area effect weapon can dish out a lot of pain.

 

We need to train and equip more SDMs and get more light weight medium machine guns with optics on the battle field. Think they where onto something with the PKM, a 7.5 kg MG is pretty incredible.

The M240L aor MK48 Mod 1 with a variable power scope could be a solution that already exist.

What about replacing the M203 with a system that has a greater max range and bigger kill radius?

Also changing our tactics could go a long way to maximize the strengths of our current weapon systems.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Maybe a sniper/designated counter-sniper in every squad, its not like we dont make the best damn bolties in the world here and I know we have the best riflemen. Politicians on the other hand we seem to have the worst.

[imarangemaster 315]

 

 

The U.S. military should:

-Develop a 5.56 cartridge that still has good terminal effects at lower velocities

 

 

 

They did. The Mk 262 Mod1 77 OTBT performs very well from the M4, and stretches its effectiveness to 200 meters. and beyond. From a 20 inch m16A3 or SDMR, it is lethal as hell to 500 meters. This is according to a conversation I had at Fort Benning AMTU armory about 3 years ago. It was developed by Black Hills as a heavier round for the M249 SAW, by SFers tried it in M4s Afghanistan and fell in love with it. I knew a contractor for the State Dept. in Iraq who used it, too. It made good martyrs.

Edited June 18, 2010 by imarangemaster