Is it time to give up?

[SAIGA-Genesis 171]

For the past few of months I've been looking to get myself a multipurpose rifle, basically to have in case of any sort of emergency, and to get more proficient at shooting in the mean-time. I started by looking at ARs and then slowly worked my way over to the AK line. I then found the AK-74, specifically the Polish Tantal, and liked the idea of a gun with increased accuracy along with AK reliability, and that fired rounds that typically would typically stay inside any prospective bad guy (and not go through walls and/or hit innocent bystanders behind the person or behind a wall or several walls in the case of home-defense). I also liked the prospect of it using very affordable, for the time being, ammunition. After looking at the tantal and a few others, I found the Saigas and after some research, including some done on this site, I chose to go with one of them about 3 weeks ago and I became a member here. Then I started looking around at parts and how I might want to convert the gun, hoping to just buy everything at once from a vendor that helps support this website. Tried it once, it didn't work out and I ended up not being able to purchase the gun. Looked at the others and they were all out of stock by then. I PMed Greg from CSS on here and he told me he had just sold his last one, but would put me first in line if the sale fell through. Assuming it wouldn't fall through, I kept looking. I found a local guy, who I also later found to be a member of this forum, but that doesn't really matter, and he had one he was selling for $432 after tax. It was a little high in my opinion, but I just wanted to get the damn gun at that point. I send him my information and confirm that I will purchase the gun, and we schedule an appointment for me to pickup/purchase it from him the next weekend (since our schedules conflicted during the week). He tells me he will put the weapon aside as sold, I wanted to come in the next day, but that wasn't possible due to scheduling. Then Greg PMs me telling me that the sale fell through and the 5.45 was mine if I wanted it, and I really did. Greg was offering a lower price plus the 10% off accessories with the purchase of a gun, plus he went out of his way to help me out after my initial misfortune. Since I all ready promised to this other guy that I'd buy his overpriced gun, I had to respectfully decline Greg's gracious offer, which I'm still thankful for and I still plan on purchasing my conversion parts through him at CSS. So I call the local guy Thursday to set up the time and we agree on 11:00AM, Saturday. I wake up on Saturday to start getting ready to head over there, he was about an hour away, and I missed a call from him so he left me a message saying someone else apparently sold it to another person without him knowing even though he set it aside as sold for me. I wasted 3 days during my first transaction and now over a week with this second guy, and the worst part about both of them is that I missed an opportunity to buy a 5.45 from CSS both times...

 

So, with the back story told, my question is this: Should I give up on the Saiga 5.45 and go with another caliber or with another gun? By the looks of it they aren't going to be imported again for some time (I heard something like 6 months) and I've all ready decided that I want to buy an AK platform rifle and don't really want to wait on this any longer. Even if I do find some in the near-ish future, the price is probably going to be jacked up because there aren't too many out there right now, and I don't really want to overpay for this rifle due to supply shortages, despite the fact that it's my preferred choice.

 

Any insight would be appreciated, including if anyone knows where I might be able to find one at their normal-ish price. Oddly enough, I was even looking forward to converting the rifle myself as I considered that a great way for me to get a much better understanding of it.

 

Edit: I just want to thank Greg again for his help and consideration. +5 to CSS

Edited May 30, 2010 by SAIGA-Genesis

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Well, I would say you should give up on the idea of finding an all purpose rifle. There really is no gun that can do it all at once. Though some do come really damn close. The way I figure is, if you have either a 5.45 or a 7.62 Saiga, you're pretty damn close to all around good. They both have their strong points depending on your goals with the gun.

 

I think you should definitely get a 5.45 Saiga. They are awesome guns, I love mine. Aside from all the generic AK benefits like reliability, how damn easy it is to mod them compared to other guns, etc. The 5.45 really has some good points to it. I like mine for the ammo prices and I have a Bulgarian block/brake on there which makes recoil an absolute joke. I mean seriously, I'm not even close to a good shooter and I can stand up and pump the whole magazine into a Q target at 50 yards. It's like shooting a loud 22lr. And even without the brake it's still very manageable.

 

Greg at CSS is a great guy, I buy all my gun stuff there if he sells it. I had absolutely NO luck finding a 5.45 anywhere "local." Searched an 800 table gun show the week before Christmas and not a single one. And most dealers I talked to corrected me "74? You mean AK-47?" or "5.45? You mean 5.56?" I bought mine from Atlantic Firearms for $359, was before CSS sold guns. At that price it ends up being about what your local guy wanted. The 5.45 Saigas are definitely a little harder to find than the others.

 

My advice to you is get both, get a 7.62x39 and a 5.45x39 whenever you have the funds for either. They are both really good rifles and between the two I'd have a hard time picking only one. It seems you have done a lot of research as to needs, so you find the 5.45 to fit yours. Best of luck.

[clrmegne 3]

Seems to me that your reasons and the process for targeting the purchase a 5.45 Saiga have been deliberate and thorough. I don't think I would settle if that is what I really wanted. I think it would be something that would be regretted later. I myself have considered purchasing the 5.45 but just have not made the jump yet. Still funding restoration of two others.

 

Classic Arms shows the 5.45 in stock at $339 if that helps.

[jimdigriz 580]

Both Classic Arms and Centerfire Systems have 5.45 Saigas in stock.

[superA 289]

I am dying to get one and put some wood furniture on it. The Saiga 12 will probably come first though.

[Paulry 50]

I would give up on the 5.45x39 and go with the .223!

 

Lately Sportsman's Guide has been out of 5.45x39 on a regular basis. One ban (it could be any day) and we are all screwed.

 

Don't live with that worry. The .223, I don't believe is as accurate as the 5.45x39 in the AK format. But unless your shooting Prairie dogs it does the job well.

 

Not trying to be negative here but responding to a questions Post. And everyone on this forum knows I'm into this caliber in a big way.

 

Yes, I did say I think and will prove the 5.45x39 is more accurate than the .223. (maybe same power in 16" barrels as well)

 

Frosty

[Wade Pruetz 103]

I am a big 5.45 fan and I would wait. Look on the AK forum, call Classic and see when they are getting more if they aren't in stock already. The 5.45 is more accurate and the ammo is cheap.

[jimdigriz 580]

I would give up on the 5.45x39 and go with the .223!

 

Lately Sportsman's Guide has been out of 5.45x39 on a regular basis. One ban (it could be any day) and we are all screwed.

 

Don't live with that worry. The .223, I don't believe is as accurate as the 5.45x39 in the AK format. But unless your shooting Prairie dogs it does the job well.

 

Not trying to be negative here but responding to a questions Post. And everyone on this forum knows I'm into this caliber in a big way.

 

Yes, I did say I think and will prove the 5.45x39 is more accurate than the .223. (maybe same power in 16" barrels as well)

 

Frosty

 

My .223 Saiga seems to be more accurate than my 5.45 Saiga and my SGL31. But all three are very good. I wouldn't make a decision about which caliber Saiga to buy on the basis of accuracy.

 

My solution to the possibility of a 5.45 supply disruption was to buy lots of 5.45 surplus, and hedge with a Saiga .223. I don't really have enough of the surplus yet to say that I've justified my investment in 5.45 rifles, alas. However, I'm not convinced that we are even close to seeing the surplus dry up yet.

[kresk 10,063]

My local distributor has plenty of 5.45, and at a reasonable price. Load up now.

[SAIGA-Genesis 171]

Both Classic Arms and Centerfire Systems have 5.45 Saigas in stock.

Classic Arms has them listed in stock on the main page, but when you go to the order online screen and find it, it's listed as out of stock. Centerfire Systems also has them listed as out of stock ("Price: $324.99 This item is Out of Stock and is NOT available for backorders."). The only place that I could find with them in stock is Atlantic, and I sent them an e-mail to see if they still are. Hopefully they are, but I have a feeling they aren't.

My local distributor has plenty of 5.45, and at a reasonable price. Load up now.

He doesn't happen to sell them online or over the phone as well, does he?

 

I wasn't looking for an all-purpose rifle, just a multi-purpose. The local guy was selling his for $400, which is kind of above average, but still buyable, imo.

 

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

 

Edit: Atlantic is out of stock and doesn't know when they're going to get more in.

Edited May 30, 2010 by SAIGA-Genesis

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Both Classic Arms and Centerfire Systems have 5.45 Saigas in stock.

Classic Arms has them listed in stock on the main page, but when you go to the order online screen and find it, it's listed as out of stock. Centerfire Systems also has them listed as out of stock ("Price: $324.99 This item is Out of Stock and is NOT available for backorders."). The only place that I could find with them in stock is Atlantic, and I sent them an e-mail to see if they still are. Hopefully they are, but I have a feeling they aren't.

My local distributor has plenty of 5.45, and at a reasonable price. Load up now.

He doesn't happen to sell them online or over the phone as well, does he?

 

I wasn't looking for an all-purpose rifle, just a multi-purpose. The local guy was selling his for $400, which is kind of above average, but still buyable, imo.

 

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

 

Edit: Atlantic is out of stock and doesn't know when they're going to get more in.

 

Copes has the 5.45 Spam cans for $149.99 / 1080 with $7.95 shipping. Comes out to 14 cents a round. In case tritium's guy does not do mail order.

[SAIGA-Genesis 171]

Both Classic Arms and Centerfire Systems have 5.45 Saigas in stock.

Classic Arms has them listed in stock on the main page, but when you go to the order online screen and find it, it's listed as out of stock. Centerfire Systems also has them listed as out of stock ("Price: $324.99 This item is Out of Stock and is NOT available for backorders."). The only place that I could find with them in stock is Atlantic, and I sent them an e-mail to see if they still are. Hopefully they are, but I have a feeling they aren't.

My local distributor has plenty of 5.45, and at a reasonable price. Load up now.

He doesn't happen to sell them online or over the phone as well, does he?

 

I wasn't looking for an all-purpose rifle, just a multi-purpose. The local guy was selling his for $400, which is kind of above average, but still buyable, imo.

 

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

 

Edit: Atlantic is out of stock and doesn't know when they're going to get more in.

 

Copes has the 5.45 Spam cans for $149.99 / 1080 with $7.95 shipping. Comes out to 14 cents a round. In case tritium's guy does not do mail order.

Oh, he meant ammo. I thought he meant guns. I live like 40 minutes from rguns, they have a lot as well.

[SAIGA-Genesis 171]

I'm probably going to head over to rguns tomorrow and try to pick up a 91/30 to shoot with in the mean time, I guess.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Can't go wrong with a Mosin. I really need to get one next time I have some spare cash.

 

Problem is, I hear they are worse than Saigas! First you get one, then another, and another, and next thing you know you're collecting arsenal marks

[dussandr 76]

Copes has the 5.45 Spam cans for $149.99 / 1080 with $7.95 shipping. Comes out to 14 cents a round.

 

Thanks for the heads up! I nabbed a couple cans at that price.

[The_EE 1]

AIM Surplus has spam cans of 1080 ea for $129.99 with $20 shipping for 1 can or $149.99 shipped @ 13.88 cents a round

 

2 Cans of 1080 ea ( 2160 )for $119.95 ea ( when you buy 2 or more cans ) with $29 shipping or $269 shipped @ 12.49 cents a round ( comes with opener )

[Bucky G 4]

I absolutely love my 5.45

I almost put together another AR15 but glad I did the Saiga in 5.45 instead

With a 16" barrel they are almost identical in recoil, noise, accuracy

me and my buddy were out the other day, he had several FTF's with his AR and my Saiga functioned flawlessly

I'm using a red dot now with one of those berryl rails and you'd really have to try hard to miss anything

I don't ever recall seeing sportsman's guide out of stock on 5.45

I buy some almost every paycheck

they got the 1080 spam cans for $151 club price but I always buy the wolf hollow point

 

now I want an S12.... really really REALLY bad

[-dW 2]

 

I buy some almost every paycheck

they got the 1080 spam cans for $151 club price but I always buy the wolf hollow point

 

now I want an S12.... really really REALLY bad

 

thing is, after maybe what, 3 cans of 5.45, you've saved enough money by not buying 5.56 that your S12 is pretty much paid for..

[Bucky G 4]

aha! another way to rationalize the purchase of an S12!

[Paulry 50]

It just goes to show you,

 

I go out of my way to discourage this caliber and every time you guys PULL-EM back in! You guys are like hucksters in front of a strip joint. Hell there goes our secret stash! I'm not possessive or a hoarder, but my finances are minimal.

 

 

All I know is this is one weird little foreign cartridge that nobody knows about.

 

Just trying to keep it that way. I do speak the truth regarding this caliber as all are aware.

 

PS "Try the Wolf 60 gr hollow point!"

 

 

 

[-dW 2]

I'm just trying to save you from yourself man..

 

and oh yeah, be sure to check out the Wolf HP's.. stock up..