AK magazine conversion only is legal! :-D

[SwedishLaser 0]

Having studied the code and related codes, I can't find anything to tell me otherwise. The only websites that say magazine conversion by itself is illegal, as if it were a certainty, are the websites that sell compliance parts--which seems a little fishy if you ask me. Any thoughts?

[jimdigriz 580]

Having studied the code and related codes, I can't find anything to tell me otherwise. The only websites that say magazine conversion by itself is illegal, as if it were a certainty, are the websites that sell compliance parts--which seems a little fishy if you ask me. Any thoughts?

 

What is a "magazine conversion"?

[SwedishLaser 0]

Having studied the code and related codes, I can't find anything to tell me otherwise. The only websites that say magazine conversion by itself is illegal, as if it were a certainty, are the websites that sell compliance parts--which seems a little fishy if you ask me. Any thoughts?

 

What is a "magazine conversion"?

 

 

I should have clarified. I mean by simply installing a dinzag bullet guide and filing the mag catch to accept mil-surp AK mags, and nothing else.

[SwedishLaser 0]

"At any rate, it is not necessary to alter a Saiga for 922® compliance unless it has ceased to be a sporting rifle. Adding a pistol grip or folding stock to one absolutely triggers 922®. However, it is not certain that converting one to accept AK-47 magazines automatically triggers a need for 922® compliance."

 

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance

 

® It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported

 

 

parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to

 

 

any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section

 

 

925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or

 

 

readily adaptable to sporting purposes . . . "

 

http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+538+0++%28%29%20%20AND%20%28%2818%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND%20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%28922%29%29%3ACITE

[ThirtyAughtSix 101]

I think he is stuck in 922 hell... Anyways, he wants to know if he can put in an American mag, get 5(4 is no choke, right??) compliance parts and be legal. NO, he can't. If it is shotgun you will need to add an American muzzle device (they have some nice Russian style flash hiders) AND an American gas piston. A rifle requires 5 parts be replaced, and adding a pistol grip just adds a part, not one that needs to be replaced. Easiest route, get an American fore end, a stock and your a "legal".

 

I wouldn't rely on a magazine for compliance, that's just my view on the subject. So do yourself a favor, and get a new trigger group (3 compliance parts), get a new stock and forend and convert it. That will let you use ANY mag too.

 

EDIT TO ADD: Guess you posted more stuff before I finished posting this, I wouldn't push the 922 question and not do it. Using "hi-capacity" mags sounds "unsporting", well, if your a gun grabber anyways.

Edited May 30, 2010 by ThirtyAughtSix

[jimdigriz 580]

I should have clarified. I mean by simply installing a dinzag bullet guide and filing the mag catch to accept mil-surp AK mags, and nothing else.

 

You're playing with fire.

 

Do the whole conversion. All that it entails are removing 2 pins and 3 rivets, and then installing the parts. It'll be a better gun, and a legal one for use with large capacity magazines. (Alternatively, you can change out one part such as the handguard for a U.S. one, and then use _only_ U.S.-made large capacity mags. It will work, but it is an inferior option).

 

Good luck.

[nalioth 405]

Having studied the code and related codes, I can't find anything to tell me otherwise. The only websites that say magazine conversion by itself is illegal, as if it were a certainty, are the websites that sell compliance parts--which seems a little fishy if you ask me. Any thoughts?

It's only "fishy" if you have no personal responsibility.

 

Otherwise, by your logic, it's "fishy" that we can buy a car that can kill a person (or people) with just a small press on the accelerator pedal.

 

Or, sporting goods houses selling golf clubs and baseball bats (which can also easily kill people).

 

 

 

 

 

You just keep up with this attitude, and you'll end up with a whole lot of others with no personal responsibility.

[SwedishLaser 0]

Having studied the code and related codes, I can't find anything to tell me otherwise. The only websites that say magazine conversion by itself is illegal, as if it were a certainty, are the websites that sell compliance parts--which seems a little fishy if you ask me. Any thoughts?

It's only "fishy" if you have no personal responsibility.

 

Otherwise, by your logic, it's "fishy" that we can buy a car that can kill a person (or people) with just a small press on the accelerator pedal.

 

Or, sporting goods houses selling golf clubs and baseball bats (which can also easily kill people).

 

 

 

 

 

You just keep up with this attitude, and you'll end up with a whole lot of others with no personal responsibility.

 

 

I don't think you understood the question or the logic, so I will forgive you for being rude. If I didn't have personal responsibility I wouldn't care to research the legality of the matter, or bother posting the topic to solicit the input of others.

[nalioth 405]

Okay then.

 

To answer your question, it is illegal to stick a 11-round or more capacity magazine in a factory saiga rifle.

 

According to the powers that be, 10 rounds or less is "sporting", and so when you stick your 11-or-more capacity mag (non sporting) in your factory saiga rifle, you've put it into an "unimportable" condition. A 922r compliant Saiga rifle is required to use "non sporting" magazines.

Edited May 30, 2010 by nalioth

[Azrial 1,091]

Having studied the code and related codes, I can't find anything to tell me otherwise. The only websites that say magazine conversion by itself is illegal, as if it were a certainty, are the websites that sell compliance parts--which seems a little fishy if you ask me. Any thoughts?

It's only "fishy" if you have no personal responsibility.

 

Otherwise, by your logic, it's "fishy" that we can buy a car that can kill a person (or people) with just a small press on the accelerator pedal.

 

Or, sporting goods houses selling golf clubs and baseball bats (which can also easily kill people).

 

You just keep up with this attitude, and you'll end up with a whole lot of others with no personal responsibility.

 

I don't think you understood the question or the logic, so I will forgive you for being rude. If I didn't have personal responsibility I wouldn't care to research the legality of the matter, or bother posting the topic to solicit the input of others.

Let me get this straight, you walk in here asking for help, on a subject that has been well researched and well documented. You have previously determined that the combined knowledge and opinion of this site's members is erroneous based on your fledgling "research' and seem to simply want validation for your silly opinion. Then you decide to "graciously" forgive Nalioth and others that try to help you? Get over yourself, I don't think there is much ruder then coming here with the stupid attitude, "I don't understand something, so everyone else must be wrong!"

 

I assume that English is not your native language, so your poorly worded questions are understandable in their error, but are you even in the US? 922R is US law and has noting to do with elsewhere in the world.

 

If you are in the US, let me make the answer simple, "You are wrong, you do not know what you are talking about." If you put a larger then OEM magazine in a Saiga you will have to comply with 922R to be legal.

[SwedishLaser 0]

Having studied the code and related codes, I can't find anything to tell me otherwise. The only websites that say magazine conversion by itself is illegal, as if it were a certainty, are the websites that sell compliance parts--which seems a little fishy if you ask me. Any thoughts?

It's only "fishy" if you have no personal responsibility.

 

Otherwise, by your logic, it's "fishy" that we can buy a car that can kill a person (or people) with just a small press on the accelerator pedal.

 

Or, sporting goods houses selling golf clubs and baseball bats (which can also easily kill people).

 

You just keep up with this attitude, and you'll end up with a whole lot of others with no personal responsibility.

 

I don't think you understood the question or the logic, so I will forgive you for being rude. If I didn't have personal responsibility I wouldn't care to research the legality of the matter, or bother posting the topic to solicit the input of others.

Let me get this straight, you walk in here asking for help, on a subject that has been well researched and well documented. You have previously determined that the combined knowledge and opinion of this site's members is erroneous based on your fledgling "research' and seem to simply want validation for your silly opinion. Then you decide to "graciously" forgive Nalioth and others that try to help you? Get over yourself, I don't think there is much ruder then coming here with the stupid attitude, "I don't understand something, so everyone else must be wrong!"

 

I assume that English is not your native language, so your poorly worded questions are understandable in their error, but are you even in the US? 922R is US law and has noting to do with elsewhere in the world.

 

If you are in the US, let me make the answer simple, "You are wrong, you do not know what you are talking about." If you put a larger then OEM magazine in a Saiga you will have to comply with 922R to be legal.

 

 

OK, keyboard warrior, I hope you feel better after getting that off your chest.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Having studied the code and related codes, I can't find anything to tell me otherwise. The only websites that say magazine conversion by itself is illegal, as if it were a certainty, are the websites that sell compliance parts--which seems a little fishy if you ask me. Any thoughts?

It's only "fishy" if you have no personal responsibility.

 

Otherwise, by your logic, it's "fishy" that we can buy a car that can kill a person (or people) with just a small press on the accelerator pedal.

 

Or, sporting goods houses selling golf clubs and baseball bats (which can also easily kill people).

 

You just keep up with this attitude, and you'll end up with a whole lot of others with no personal responsibility.

 

I don't think you understood the question or the logic, so I will forgive you for being rude. If I didn't have personal responsibility I wouldn't care to research the legality of the matter, or bother posting the topic to solicit the input of others.

Let me get this straight, you walk in here asking for help, on a subject that has been well researched and well documented. You have previously determined that the combined knowledge and opinion of this site's members is erroneous based on your fledgling "research' and seem to simply want validation for your silly opinion. Then you decide to "graciously" forgive Nalioth and others that try to help you? Get over yourself, I don't think there is much ruder then coming here with the stupid attitude, "I don't understand something, so everyone else must be wrong!"

 

I assume that English is not your native language, so your poorly worded questions are understandable in their error, but are you even in the US? 922R is US law and has noting to do with elsewhere in the world.

 

If you are in the US, let me make the answer simple, "You are wrong, you do not know what you are talking about." If you put a larger then OEM magazine in a Saiga you will have to comply with 922R to be legal.

 

 

OK, keyboard warrior, I hope you feel better after getting that off your chest.

 

 

I guess he don't know you, Bill....

[kresk 10,063]

Hey if you're so sure it's legal, slap a hi-cap mag in your rifle and bring it to the ATF to get their blessings.

[Matthew Hopkins 1,065]

which seems a little fishy if you ask me. Any thoughts?

 

I believe the easiest solution to this, is do what you think is correct and legal, put a period at the end of it, and move on with your life

Edited June 21, 2010 by Matthew Hopkins

[Azrial 1,091]

Having studied the code and related codes, I can't find anything to tell me otherwise. The only websites that say magazine conversion by itself is illegal, as if it were a certainty, are the websites that sell compliance parts--which seems a little fishy if you ask me. Any thoughts?

 

OK, keyboard warrior, I hope you feel better after getting that off your chest.

You need to quit "thinking" about the legality of building your Saiga so much, clearly you have no talent for it. You have to admit that is takes pretty colossal gall to prance in here and announce that everything we know is wrong and that based on your sophomoric "research" that we are all unwitting dupes of the Saiga Parts Vendors who have all collaborated to concoct this huge lie to sell gun parts! Apparently you believe that we have been praying and waiting on someone of your "gifted" intellect. to come it here and straighten us all out!

 

I am not flaming you for being wrong, most of us are here to help new folks! I am flaming you for the arrogant way that you parade your stupidly about, attempting to make others justify long commonly known information because of your failure to understand what has been clearly written here for your edification.

 

Well my new advice is build your rifle any way you please and then take it to your local BATF Field Office for inspection. You should video yourself doing this as you flat out defy them to do anything about it! Call a press conference while you are at it! Post this to YouTube and then I will be impressed with your legal "logic."

 

Until then you are just another illiterate half-witted dork that pops through here every few months with a stupid theory on 922R, you are just more full of yourself then most.

 

Keyboard Warrior? Yeah...let's save that one for an in-person discussion. I really need you to convince me of that!

Edited June 21, 2010 by Azrial

[Azrial 1,091]

I guess he don't know you, Bill....

 

Sometimes I believe that we are the Mecca of the Moronic 922R Counter-Theory Faithful.

 

No one said that it is a good idea, it's just the law!

Edited June 22, 2010 by Azrial

[Mak 3]

Having studied the code and related codes, I can't find anything to tell me otherwise. The only websites that say magazine conversion by itself is illegal, as if it were a certainty, are the websites that sell compliance parts--which seems a little fishy if you ask me. Any thoughts?

It's only "fishy" if you have no personal responsibility.

 

Otherwise, by your logic, it's "fishy" that we can buy a car that can kill a person (or people) with just a small press on the accelerator pedal.

 

Or, sporting goods houses selling golf clubs and baseball bats (which can also easily kill people).

 

You just keep up with this attitude, and you'll end up with a whole lot of others with no personal responsibility.

 

I don't think you understood the question or the logic, so I will forgive you for being rude. If I didn't have personal responsibility I wouldn't care to research the legality of the matter, or bother posting the topic to solicit the input of others.

Let me get this straight, you walk in here asking for help, on a subject that has been well researched and well documented. You have previously determined that the combined knowledge and opinion of this site's members is erroneous based on your fledgling "research' and seem to simply want validation for your silly opinion. Then you decide to "graciously" forgive Nalioth and others that try to help you? Get over yourself, I don't think there is much ruder then coming here with the stupid attitude, "I don't understand something, so everyone else must be wrong!"

 

I assume that English is not your native language, so your poorly worded questions are understandable in their error, but are you even in the US? 922R is US law and has noting to do with elsewhere in the world.

 

If you are in the US, let me make the answer simple, "You are wrong, you do not know what you are talking about." If you put a larger then OEM magazine in a Saiga you will have to comply with 922R to be legal.

 

 

OK, keyboard warrior, I hope you feel better after getting that off your chest.

 

 

Where exactly in a US law, other than the sunsetted 1994 Assault Weapon Ban, is magazine capacity clearly spelled out as non-sporting if it is over 10 rounds. The majority of posts I have ever seen spells out that this definition was only clearly documented in the 1994-2004 AWB which is no longer law. In the 1989 sporting purposes EO it was simply stated vaguely as "high capacity magazines" with no mention of what that definition was, wasn't it? And then there had to be certain other "evil feature" none of which occur on a stock Saiga.

 

In 1998 there was another EO issued (during a time when the 1994 AWB was still in effect) which attempted to ban rifles capable of accepting high capacity magazines which the 1994 AWB failed to do. This put an end to thumbhole stocked rifles being imported that still accepted and used high capacity magazines. This EO relied on the 1994 AWB definition of high capacity magazines. But since the law that defined high capacity magazines is no longer in effect in actual law, then it could be deduced that there is no law banning the "end user" from inserting high capacity magazines into a rifle that can otherwise be imported because it does not contain any banned evil features plainly spelled out in the sporting purposes clause which drew from the 1968 gun control act.

 

How many people have been sent to federal prison for violating this so-called provision of a 10 round capacity? Please cite the cases as in the 22 years I worked for the Department of Justice I never came across one case in which someone was arrested for inserting a 11 or higher round magazine into a non-converted non-922® compliant Saiga.

 

Since I retired from the DOJ in 2008 maybe there has been a vast increase of incarcerations for violating this mysterious 11 round capacity send you to the big house law that is secretly sending millions of gun owners to secret prisons where no records are ever released. Is this a Patriot Act law and are those convicted being wisked off to Guantamano? Since records of federal convictions and appeals are readily accessible on the Internet from each federal court please post some examples if you can find them.

 

We need to hear facts and not urban legends. With all the members here someone must have first hand knowledge of someone sent to federal prison for inserting an 11+ round magazine into their un-converted Saiga.

 

And what happens to all those with pre-1998 Saigas? (Executive Order issued in 1998 that stopped importation of rifles being imported with ability to accept hi cap mags unless 922® compliant, but those rifles had one other evil feature that the Saiga, a downward protruding pistol grip when the ATF rewrote its finding that thumbhole stocks were then pistol grips) Can they insert a high capacity magazine into their rifles with no worry? Seeing as under the 1989 sporting purposes EO, MAK-90s, Maadi and SA85M rifles were imported with the ability to legally use high capacity magazines. Saigas were also imported in this time period so there would obviously be no prohibition from inserting a high capacity magazine into these pre-1998 Saigas just as there is no prohibition into inserting a high capacity magazine concerning the other sporting purposes AK style rifles.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Mak

[rob-cubed 74]

This topic comes up with alarming regularity and every single time I learn a little more about just how restrictive 922r is. Here's a letter to and from the ATF (see question 2) which is a little vague but clearly suggests that adding any part to a gun which would change it from its imported configuration (including simply inserting a hi-cap US made magazine) falls under assembly.

 

Read what you want into it, not my letter. Plenty of guys ignore 922r and that's your own personal liability. I'm not aware of any citizen getting busted for 922r but that doesn't mean ignoring it isn't illegal.

 

[Mak 3]

They failed to answer the part of the question about inserting the magazine into the rifle. Saiga comes with a foreign mag, how is inserting a foreign mag illegal?

 

Where is the answer to the 4th question on burden of proof? You didn't post the entire letter. Burden of proof is on the prosecutor to prove the rifle was assembled by the person charged.

[paprotective 362]

Mak..

 

it does say "as long as none of the original parts are substituted with replacement or additional parts"

 

meaning to me.. I can't stick a non-OEM mag in without violation of 922r..

 

No offense Mak.. but most here (unless there running Mil-Surp wood) don't argue 922r..

 

They like the US trigger sets.. and the US made handguards/stock options..

 

I run foreign (Romanian) wood on my Saiga 762x39 and have the G2, the PG, and 2 parts in each mag that are US made..

 

Can I put a std 30 round Bulgy mag in my rifle sure.. do I care about 922r to the LETTER.. no.. will I put a 30 round mag in without some catastophic occurence happening in my neighborhood.. NO..

 

 

 

For $28 (G2) and $8 (PG) and $7 (2 US made mag parts) it not a HUGE investment to run my FOREIGN wood..

 

Granted the extra charge if you piss off someone wouldn't really matter at that point either IMHO..

 

I'm sure the guys in Philly who shoot up the hood' with AK's don't get a 922r charge either..

 

 

Al

Edited October 9, 2010 by YWHIC

[308SAIGA 55]

I know this is old, but for a guy that states he studies the law hasn't learned much.

BTW I see Rob-cubed only posted part of the letter, always post the entire letters from ATF, it is illegal to assemble, but not illegal to posses, see paragraph 3).

 

If you purchase a illegal weapon then it is legal, if you do this I'd suggest you always have a copy of 1) your receipt with the entire description with all of the parts listed and 2) a copy of this ATF letter....

 

 

ATF Reply letter.pdf

[Mak 3]

Mak..

 

it does say "as long as none of the original parts are substituted with replacement or additional parts"

 

meaning to me.. I can't stick a non-OEM mag in without violation of 922r..

 

No offense Mak.. but most here (unless there running Mil-Surp wood) don't argue 922r..

 

They like the US trigger sets.. and the US made handguards/stock options..

 

I run foreign (Romanian) wood on my Saiga 762x39 and have the G2, the PG, and 2 parts in each mag that are US made..

 

Can I put a std 30 round Bulgy mag in my rifle sure.. do I care about 922r to the LETTER.. no.. will I put a 30 round mag in without some catastophic occurence happening in my neighborhood.. NO..

 

 

 

For $28 (G2) and $8 (PG) and $7 (2 US made mag parts) it not a HUGE investment to run my FOREIGN wood..

 

Granted the extra charge if you piss off someone wouldn't really matter at that point either IMHO..

 

I'm sure the guys in Philly who shoot up the hood' with AK's don't get a 922r charge either..

 

 

Al

 

 

I install US compliance parts in any rifle I convert to be identical to otherwise not importable military style rifles. But I don't install compliance parts in a rifle I don't convert and do no modification other than install a bullet guide into. The rifles are imported as sporting rifles which are commonly used for hunting purposes. Problem is, state law requires that centerfire rifles use a 5 round magazine for hunting. The Saiga comes with a 10 round magazine. By installing a bullet guide, a common $3.00 to $5.00 5 round AK mag can be inserted and function in a Saiga making it legal for hunting purposes. This is how I modifiy a 7.62x39 Saiga to use as a deer rifle.

 

To me, inserting a foreign mag to replace a foreign mag does not bring 922® into play.

 

The 1968 Gun Control Act pointed out that firearms must meet the sporting purpose, it was expanded to spell out firearms "identical" to prohibited military style firearms capable of accepting a High Capacity Ammunition Feeding device (which wasn't spelled out until the 1994 AWB which is no longer law) and at least 1? 2? other prohibited features.

[Mak 3]

BTW I see Rob-cubed only posted part of the letter, always post the entire letters from ATF, it is illegal to assemble, but not illegal to posses, see paragraph 3).

 

If you purchase a illegal weapon then it is legal, if you do this I'd suggest you always have a copy of 1) your receipt with the entire description with all of the parts listed and 2) a copy of this ATF letter....

 

 

 

 

Possession as you say is not illegal. Assembly is. Many Saigas have been sold throughout the years since they were first imported in the early 1990s that were modified to accept high capacity magazines. Many Saigas were resold with mags that were modified to feed. Just like the Mak-90s (until 1994), Maadis, and SA85Ms were imported until 1996-1998 with the ability to accept high capacity magazines with no modification, there was no law to prohibit the end user from operating these rifles with high capacity magazines as long as no other modification were made that triggered 922®.

 

When B-West/Jensens gun shop first imported Saigas in Tucson they would tell buyers at the store how easy it was to get them to work with regular AK mags.

[paprotective 362]

Mak.. why are you here??

 

I have to ask..

 

Are you pro-Saiga or anti-Saiga??

[308SAIGA 55]

 

 

Possession as you say is not illegal. Assembly is. Many Saigas have been sold throughout the years since they were first imported in the early 1990s that were modified to accept high capacity magazines. Many Saigas were resold with mags that were modified to feed. Just like the Mak-90s (until 1994), Maadis, and SA85Ms were imported until 1996-1998 with the ability to accept high capacity magazines with no modification, there was no law to prohibit the end user from operating these rifles with high capacity magazines as long as no other modification were made that triggered 922®.

 

When B-West/Jensens gun shop first imported Saigas in Tucson they would tell buyers at the store how easy it was to get them to work with regular AK mags.

 

As I say? No, as ATF says!!! Big difference, click on the PDF file I posted the entire letter is their... Mak 90's are not C&R so you can put any hi-cap mag on it and remain legal, Saiga's are only imported in a hunting style configuration and are not C&R's so any alterations to them would be illegal, unless you purchased it that way, even then I'd be careful, even thought in the letter that I posted states that the burden of proof lays on ATF and we all know how well the Gov agencies follow the law....

 

I did not understand what your point was on the Maadis or SA85M's, when these where done 922r probably did not exist, I can not remember when it came into affect I think it was in 1996 in the Clinton era.... If this is the case then there was no 922r....

[my762buzz 141]

The 1968 Gun Control Act pointed out that firearms must meet the sporting purpose, it was expanded to spell out firearms "identical" to prohibited military style firearms capable of accepting a High Capacity Ammunition Feeding device (which wasn't spelled out until the 1994 AWB which is no longer law) and at least 1? 2? other prohibited features.

 

You far off base and here is why.

 

I don't have the time right now to pull each individual law and regulation from the gun control act which is the basis of

the issue at hand but I will briefly lay out the basic points so that you can spend a few hours searching for your self

instead of dwelling in a cloud of confusion because you can not connect the legal dots.

 

1968 Gun Control Act passed by Congress into law

 

Secretary of the treasury was given the supreme power to decide what is importable and what is not.

Section 925(d) allows the Secretary of the Treasury devine like powers in this respect. No law is required to be passed for

this office to shut down whatever gun import it basically wants to.

This is dictated to the ATF as to what can and can't be imported.

 

 

The 1998 executive order to ban high capacity magazine capable rifles was directed at the office of the secretary of the treasury

to amend the list of banned items or features so that no rifles that could accept higher capacity mags could be imported for civilian

sales. Hope you can see that this executive order acted upon the law already passed by congress that affects imports.

 

 

922r which is also a section of the gun control act the same law passed by congress as worded makes it illegal for anyone including you to recreate

any weapon configuration which the secretary of the treasury has already made unimportable unless of course it is recreated with less than 11 foreign parts

subject to the official parts list that congress decided upon back in 1993.

 

 

So there you have it.

Congress passes law 1968->1998 Executive order acts upon same 1968 law to ban xyz->1998 Secreatry of the treasury invokes power to ban xyz from import->preexisting

1968 law amendment 922r now prevents you from recreating what the secretary of the treasury has made inaccessable to you but because of

the 10 parts rule you can legally build that which is otherwise banned by means of keeping the total official foreign parts count to 10 or less.

 

 

Now add in the fact of the ATF ruling of re-assembly just by inserting a different magazine and you have felony by magazine insertion.

Anyway it is all laid out. Now hopefully you will see the big picture.

Edited October 9, 2010 by my762buzz

[my762buzz 141]

By the way, if you just own an uncompliant weapon, it can be confiscated which is way too easy for any law enforcement

level to do just because they can. Say you get stopped and a certain cop has a hard on for trying to charge people with any gun related charge he can and he can't find a thing to bust you with except then his CO notifies him of that oddball

regulation 922r and the cop decides well I can't charge him with a 922r violation but I sure can confiscate the gun.

Good luck even trying to get it back.

[308SAIGA 55]

By the way, if you just own an uncompliant weapon, it can be confiscated which is way too easy for any law enforcement level to do just because they can. Say you get stopped and a certain cop has a hard on for trying to charge people with any gun related charge he can and he can't find a thing to bust you with except then his CO notifies him of that oddball

regulation 922r and the cop decides well I can't charge him with a 922r violation but I sure can confiscate the gun.

Good luck even trying to get it back.

 

 

Hummm, True but at the same time the burden of proof lies in the hands of law enforcement, and as stated if you purchase a weapon that is non compliant then it is NOT illegal.. The issue is how much money do you have? If you do not have the money to fight the law, then you are done for... These days more & more people are being charged with crimes that they did not commit, they have recordings of police officers committing criminal acts and yet they do nothing (see link below for an example). We may wonder why not, because the lawsuits against the cities would put every city in this country in bankruptcy...

 

 

 

To see the 2nd and 3rd vids on this go to YouTube

Edited October 10, 2010 by 308saiga

[my762buzz 141]

Hummm, True but at the same time the burden of proof lies in the hands of law enforcement, and as stated if you purchase a weapon that is non compliant then it is NOT illegal..

 

There are places in the country that decriminalize the ownership (not illegal to own) of small amounts of marijuana but will confiscate the product. Same can happen with virtually any other item including guns.

 

922r uncomliant is not illegal to own but if the weapon itself is easily viewed as uncompliant then the LEO could potentially confiscate the gun and hold it for further careful examination. It might be a very slim chance of that ever happening but then we got to ask ourselves why do we bother to obey the minimum barrel length regulations and all the other gun regulations.

It seems that the less likely something is to cause a criminal charge the more likely people are to violate the regulation. There are too many possibilities of getting in trouble with all the gun haters.

 

I agree wholely that in some cases LEO's overstep the law and commit violations of rights. The Federal government is doing that all the time. No knock warrants that get innocent people killed sometimes even in the wrong home are sickening.

Edited October 11, 2010 by my762buzz

[308SAIGA 55]

 

922r uncomliant is not illegal to own but if the weapon itself is easily viewed as uncompliant then the LEO could potentially confiscate the gun and hold it for further careful examination.

 

Next time you see a cop walk up and ask "what is 922r compliance?"..... I guarantee you most will not know what you are talking about...