wolf ammo vs 7N6

[winstonLT 1]

Hey guys, I would like to pick your collective brain on the following: I do not like shooting the russian mil surplus 7N6, but I do like the ballistics of the round. Two questions:

1. Do you guys think the wolf 5.45 60 grain hollow point would be just as effective against soft targets as the 7N6?

2. Does the wolf 5.45 70 grain FMJ have a similair design as the 7N6 (hollow tip)...just as effective as the 52 grain 7N6?

 

Please let me here your thoughts

[Donkismash 81]

Hey guys, I would like to pick your collective brain on the following: I do not like shooting the russian mil surplus 7N6, but I do like the ballistics of the round. Two questions:

1. Do you guys think the wolf 5.45 60 grain hollow point would be just as effective against soft targets as the 7N6?

2. Does the wolf 5.45 70 grain FMJ have a similair design as the 7N6 (hollow tip)...just as effective as the 52 grain 7N6?

 

Please let me here your thoughts

1.no

2.no

 

7n6 is defend the motherland from baby eating invaders ammo...wolf is not

[winstonLT 1]

Hey guys, I would like to pick your collective brain on the following: I do not like shooting the russian mil surplus 7N6, but I do like the ballistics of the round. Two questions:

1. Do you guys think the wolf 5.45 60 grain hollow point would be just as effective against soft targets as the 7N6?

2. Does the wolf 5.45 70 grain FMJ have a similair design as the 7N6 (hollow tip)...just as effective as the 52 grain 7N6?

 

Please let me here your thoughts

1.no

2.no

 

7n6 is defend the motherland from baby eating invaders ammo...wolf is not

 

Any justification for your answer? Explanation of why you think the 7N6 has superior ballistics? I believe they are both produced in Mother Russia. I have heard rumors that the wolf also has a mild steel core and a hollow tip, allowing forward displacement of the steel core causing the round to tumble when it strikes...just like the 7N6. Only difference between the two rounds as far as I can tell is that the wolf FMJ round is 18 grains heavier and uses a non corrosive propellant. Muzzle velocity is slightly lower than 7N6 due to the heavier weight (2460 fps vs 2900). But the wolf hollow point and 7N6 have almost identical weights and muzzle velocity (both about 2900 fps.) I am sure the 7N6 has slightly better terminal velocity out past 200 m or so due to its lighter weight (52 vs 60 grains). And all things being equal the lighter rounds is usually more accurate...Overall it seams the only advantage of the 7N6 is POSSIBLY greater accuracy at distance. Just my thoughts, anyone else have a coherent thought on the matter? Anyone have a cutaway of the wolf FMJ and 7N6 side by side?

[paprotective 362]

It has been reported that some 70gr in 545 tend to YAW and will keyhole.

 

Someone is doing a post on here with 545 in FMJ, HP, SP.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=52795&view=getnewpost

 

I order the 80's FMJ 53gr surplus from Sportsmansguide for $48/300.

 

here is a 200 yard group with simple 6x32 NCStar scope. its 5" wide and about 3 1/2" high.

 

I can do this all day.. I did it 3 times to make sure it wasn't a fluke.

 

 

here is 100 yards. its about 2 1/2" by 2 1/2". again I can repeat it with-in an inch or so.

 

 

Hope this helps.. maybe??

[jimdigriz 580]

Any justification for your answer? Explanation of why you think the 7N6 has superior ballistics? I believe they are both produced in Mother Russia. I have heard rumors that the wolf also has a mild steel core and a hollow tip, allowing forward displacement of the steel core causing the round to tumble when it strikes...just like the 7N6.

 

Wolf lack the steel penetrator, so it will tumble in flesh later than the 7N6. Earlier tumble = more damage.

 

The 7N6 also appears to be a "hotter" load, and is very accurate (in my gun at least).

 

My recommendation is to learn how to clean your weapon after firing corrosive, and get it down to a quick routine. I just did it today (and have done it many times in the past), and it wasn't a big deal.

 

Corrosive 7N6: Learn to love it.

[paprotective 362]

Jim,

 

Is the headstamp 270 over 82 on your 7N6 ammo.??

 

The stuff I get from 'the SGuide' isn't clear as to what it is.. some places say its 52gr some say 53gr..

 

It comes in 30 rounds brown paper packs and is green laquered. also has RED sealent on primer and bullet base.

 

Al

[jimdigriz 580]

1.no

2.no

 

7n6 is defend the motherland from baby eating invaders ammo...wolf is not

 

I gave you a +1 on that. I buy Wolf and Silver Bear in small quantities only for those range days in which I'm too lazy to clean afterward. My home defense load is 7N6.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Corrosive 7N6: Learn to love it.

 

7n6 is defend the motherland from baby eating invaders ammo...wolf is not

 

These two guys said it best lol.

 

The 7n6 corrosive stuff is great ammo, it's dirt cheap, ballistically superior, military grade ammo, and even with the corrosive salts it leaves less gunk in my gun than Wolf! I just bring along a bottle of soap water in a windex spray bottle to the range. Soon as I'm ready to head home I just field strip the gun, spray out the barrel, muzzle brake, bolt and carrier, and all down the gas tube and then re-assemble.

 

I have also found it to be very accurate stuff. When I sighted in my 5.45 I made a dime-sized group with a red dot at 25 yards from a rest. Yeah I know, worthless without pics and far from sniper stuff, but I keep my Saigas with a "battle zero" and was very impressed with a grouping like that even at so close a range.

[jimdigriz 580]

Is the headstamp 270 over 82 on your 7N6 ammo.??

270 over 76 on the bullet I just looked at. I assume 76 is the year. I've got spam cans from various years.

 

 

It comes in 30 rounds brown paper packs and is green laquered. also has RED sealent on primer and bullet base.

Mine looks like that too.

 

 

Impressive shooting in your photos, by the way.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Also according to Brass fetcher's tests, the 60gr Wolf yawed 8.4" in, the 53gr military surplus yawed 2.5" in....

 

Military Surplus

 

Wolf

Edited June 13, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov

[jimdigriz 580]

Also according to Brass fetcher's tests, the 60gr Wolf yawed 8.4" in, the 53gr military surplus yawed 2.5" in....

 

Military Surplus

 

Wolf

 

Thanks for that info. In that case, Wolf is even worse than I thought. Do you have a link, by the way?

 

I'm kind of surprised to not see a second revolution from the 7N6. I read that it can be expected to tumble twice on average in a passage through a human body.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[paprotective 362]

Thanks Jim for the confirmation on the ammo 'numbers'..

 

200 yards is sooo far away even with the 6x32 a slight movement and it drags left-right or u/d.

I was happy (and still am) that the 'cheap' scope and mount still work well. even today it was still zero'd.

 

Awesome find Klassy..

 

 

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

No problem, here is the link:

 

http://www.brassfetcher.com/AK-74%20.html

[winstonLT 1]

ok,ok, it appears that the wolf FMJ is not on par with the 7N6. But surely the wolf hollow point is going to expand and fragment at a rate on par with the 7N6...right? I will have to test and see how accurate it is. I just sold all of my 7N6 (3 spam cans) because I shot it at turkey camp and, not having the time to give it a proper cleaning, I sprayed all the internal parts thoroughly with windex. When I got home 3 days later and opened the gun to clean it, there were rust all over the place! I spent a good amount of time cleaning the gun to get rid of all the corrosion. And I had the thought, if this is supposed to be my SHTF gun, and I did not have proper cleaning supplies, it would be better not to have corrosion issues. Sooo...I sold all my corrisive 7N6 with the intent of replacing with non-corrosive ammo. I hope the wolf hollow point is comparitavely nasty in soft tissue and accurate.....we will see.

Edited June 13, 2010 by winstonLT

[wnycollector 4]

The stuff I get from 'the SGuide' isn't clear as to what it is.. some places say its 52gr some say 53gr..

 

The SG 7n6 ammo is bulgarian 52gr. Aim (and most other) retailers sell the russian 53gr 7n6. I have gone though 500 rounds of the bulgarian 7n6 with zero problems. I can put a full 30 round mag into the "head" of a silhouette target at 100 yards shooting off a sandbag .

 

When I'm done with this tin of 7n6, I will buy 2160 rounds of russian ammo from aim.

[jimdigriz 580]

ok,ok, it appears that the wolf FMJ is not on par with the 7N6. But surely the wolf hollow point is going to expand and fragment at a rate on par with the 7N6...right? I will have to test and see how accurate it is. I just sold all of my 7N6 (3 spam cans) because I shot it at turkey camp and, not having the time to give it a proper cleaning, I sprayed all the internal parts thoroughly with windex. When I got home 3 days later and opened the gun to clean it, there were rust all over the place! I spent a good amount of time cleaning the gun to get rid of all the corrosion. And I had the thought, if this is supposed to be my SHTF gun, and I did not have proper cleaning supplies, it would be better not to have corrosion issues. Sooo...I sold all my corrisive 7N6 with the intent of replacing with non-corrosive ammo. I hope the wolf hollow point is comparitavely nasty in soft tissue and accurate.....we will see.

 

You can learn to clean it right. I had minor rust issues on two occasions, but I don't have them anymore. I just use boiling water and normal cleaning supplies.

[wnycollector 4]

When I got home 3 days later and opened the gun to clean it, there were rust all over the place!

 

I have been wondering just how corrosive the Bulgarian 7n6 I'm using is? Here is my little experiment. I shot 150 rounds through it last Saturday am and then put it back into my gun cabinet dirty. Yesterday, another 150 rounds and then brought it home to clean it. No signs of rust anywhere...just dirty! I hope this helps.

Edited June 13, 2010 by wnycollector

[jimdigriz 580]

When I got home 3 days later and opened the gun to clean it, there were rust all over the place!

 

I have been wondering just how corrosive the Bulgarian 7n6 I'm using is? Here is my little experiment. I shot 150 rounds through it last Saturday am and then put it back into my gun cabinet dirty. Yesterday, another 150 rounds and then brought it home to clean it. No signs of rust anywhere...just dirty! I hope this helps.

 

How humid is it where you live?

 

If you want to do experiments like this, I recommend doing them on the gas tube only. The barrel should be cleaned immediately with at least Hoppe's #9. In my own case, I had rust the very next day in the gas tube when I neglected it. Nothing that I couldn't easily clean up though.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[jimdigriz 580]

I don't understand not using 7N6. By using only commercial ammo, one negates the only real advantages of having a 5.45 rifle, and exposes oneself to the drawbacks of the caliber. (Namely, potential supply issues). If I wasn't going to use 7N6, I would just have a .223 or 7.62x39 and be done with it. Think about it: You could have an American-made caliber with a much greater choice of bullet type, including some of much more lethality than the commercial 5.45.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[paprotective 362]

The only issues I've had on my 5.45 is the bolt sticks abit when not cleaned. very little rust per se' on the bolt face (where the pin is protruding) may be powder residue/burn marks for all I know.

 

I never cleaned the gas 'tube' as of yet and it appears clean (rust free) thus far. I just rem-clean the bolt assy with cotton swabs and make sure the fire pin is FREE'd up. I wipe down the gas piston with rem-clean abit, & Hoppes 9 Oil the slide area and call'er done.

 

Maybe the 83' stamped stuf has less 'salts' in the primers??

 

This stuff ZINGs thru metal like butter.. My 'sale' sign frame I use for targets looks like SWISS cheese.

[BuzzNectar 35]

It has been reported that some 70gr in 545 tend to YAW and will keyhole.

 

i would bet my left nut that the ones reporting keyhole and out of the muzzle tumbling are shooting it through a piece of fu** century arms built ak-74.weather it be a sporter,tantal,or their supposed great nds-2(dont matter how nice the reciever is when your using a .223 barrel on 5.45mm ammo whatever the grain)oh yeah and to add to that my dealer called them up and wanted them to fix the problem under warrenty.their answer was "its supposed to do that"....guess they missed the part that its designed to tumble AFTER it pierces 7cm of flesh....sorry didnt mean to shit in this thread just get pissed every time i think about it.its almost like century arms was working for the obama administration in an effort to degrade the ability to defend ourselves and weaken the structure of firearms in america.

Edited June 13, 2010 by BuzzNectar

[wnycollector 4]

How humid is it where you live?

 

Low humidity up here in western NY. If I lived in the steamy South Eastern US, I would be insane trying it. In high humidity area's cleaning should be done ASAP. Up here in the freeze dried NE, IF I skip cleaning right after a range trip I should be all right for a short time...but as with everything YMMV!

 

I have had an SKS in my possession since 1990. That was back in the day of the $30/300 round tins of chinese surplus copper washed 7.62x39. I was young and stupid back then and didn't know about corrosive ammo. I would clean the rifle every 1000 rounds or so I did use windex back then, but it was only because it was cheap and very effective at cleaning the grime before I hit everything with Hoppes! To this day the only place I occasionally find rust is the gas tube.

[jimdigriz 580]

I just rem-clean the bolt assy with cotton swabs and make sure the fire pin is FREE'd up.

 

Do you disassemble the bolt assembly to clean? Would you mind describing your bolt cleaning routine in greater detail? This is the only area that feel like I'm doing wrong. I'm not getting rust, but I am getting some double and triple tap strings that I want to put the kibosh on. I think my cleaning routine is causing the firing pin to stick.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

I hope the wolf hollow point is comparitavely nasty in soft tissue and accurate.....we will see.

 

The above picture is of a Wolf 60gr Hollow Point, it took over 3x as long to being yawing.

 

Do you disassemble the bolt assembly to clean? Would you mind describing your bolt cleaning routine in greater detail? This is the only area that feel like I'm doing wrong. I'm not getting rust, but I am getting some double and triple tap strings that I want to put the kibosh on. I think my cleaning routine is causing the firing pin to stick.

 

I take the bolt and carrier out then douche it with hot water at the range. When I clean the bolt at home I douche it again with Break Free and have not had any sticking issues. I'm kind of a cheap skate as well, when I douche the bolt I let all the "drippage" fall onto a dish rag and then I use that dish rag to wipe down the rails and FCG inside the receiver

Edited June 13, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov

[Donkismash 81]

I hope the wolf hollow point is comparitavely nasty in soft tissue and accurate.....we will see.

 

The above picture is of a Wolf 60gr Hollow Point, it took over 3x as long to being yawing.

 

Do you disassemble the bolt assembly to clean? Would you mind describing your bolt cleaning routine in greater detail? This is the only area that feel like I'm doing wrong. I'm not getting rust, but I am getting some double and triple tap strings that I want to put the kibosh on. I think my cleaning routine is causing the firing pin to stick.

 

I take the bolt and carrier out then douche it with hot water at the range. When I clean the bolt at home I douche it again with Break Free and have not had any sticking issues. I'm kind of a cheap skate as well, when I douche the bolt I let all the "drippage" fall onto a dish rag and then I use that dish rag to wipe down the rails and FCG inside the receiver

that's not cheap douche

that's smart douche

[ironhead7544 35]

The 7N6 goes 3030 fps from my Tantal. The 60 gr Wolf HP goes about 2850. The 70 gr Wolf hits 2550. The ammo coming out from Hornady has a 60 gr varmint bullet. Should be good. I think the Russian ammo is inconsistent with the hollowpoints due to the steel jacket. Hopefully, we will get ammo, bullets and brass from other companies that will allow good handloads to be made up. Concerning the corrosive ammo, just clean with a black powder cleaner first. Then clean as normal. Hoppes #9 Plus will work.

Edited June 13, 2010 by ironhead7544

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

that's not cheap douche

that's smart douche

 

[paprotective 362]

Jim,

 

Here is a pic of my cleaning layout. Nothing fancy and rather DND.

 

 

Strip as normal and then rotate the BOLT face off the slide assembly/carrier

 

Make SURE to clean the extractor as BEST as you can to be free of junk. I use the Rem-Clean spray.

 

 

Also make sure to clean the bolt face (where the pin pokes out). Use a Q-tip..

 

 

and the you should be DRIPPING Rem-Clean out the tail of the BOLT. Shake it back and forth to be FREE..

 

Then I carefully spray down the internals (FCG, etc) and wipe/q-tip off the crud..

 

 

Then spray down into the BBL and and run a few patches.. Also spray the gas piston with rem-clean and remove some of the crud.

 

Hoppes 9 oil the internal rails a hair and 1 drip on the extractor before re-assy. I also use a dab Mil-Tec TW25B grease.

 

Done.. Hope this helps.. I usually don't clean the barrel at all except every 3-4 trips or 1000 rounds..

 

----------------------

 

back onto the topic... here is my 3" square 25 shot 100 yard grouping TODAY with my 'SGuide' 7N6 ammo. got my scope centered up.

 

[L5K 162]

I have never had any corrosion problems. I always use Windex to hose out the gas tube, barrel, gas block and bolt. Then I run water into it, and clean as I do any other firearm. In my personal opinion, corrosive ammo is a great place to use WD40 as, well it displaces water, as in any water that didn't evaporate when I doused the barrel. As long as you keep your rifle oiled though, you shouldn't run into any problems with corrosion. I like to run my weapons wet. Every time I go shooting, the first few rounds smoke a lot as the excess oil burns out. In my opinion, that's a good thing.

[Krom 36]

ok,ok, it appears that the wolf FMJ is not on par with the 7N6. But surely the wolf hollow point is going to expand and fragment at a rate on par with the 7N6...right? I will have to test and see how accurate it is. I just sold all of my 7N6 (3 spam cans) because I shot it at turkey camp and, not having the time to give it a proper cleaning, I sprayed all the internal parts thoroughly with windex. When I got home 3 days later and opened the gun to clean it, there were rust all over the place! I spent a good amount of time cleaning the gun to get rid of all the corrosion. And I had the thought, if this is supposed to be my SHTF gun, and I did not have proper cleaning supplies, it would be better not to have corrosion issues. Sooo...I sold all my corrisive 7N6 with the intent of replacing with non-corrosive ammo. I hope the wolf hollow point is comparitavely nasty in soft tissue and accurate.....we will see.

 

You would have been better off not even cleaning it than letting windex and water (+any salts left under powder residue and copper) to sit in your gun for 3days. Anytime you do any cleaning at the range or whatever you gotta get all the moisture out of you gun immediately. Gunzilla cleans corrosive and its a clean/lube/protect product. I would either spray it out with windex or water, followed by a shitload of wd40 and dry patches to get all the water out, or just wipe the parts down with a wet water rag and clean the bore wet water or windex patch/clp patch/water patch/clp patch/ then clean as normal at home.

 

My point is that corrosive 545 is a fine SHTF ammo choice, it didnt rust your weapon, you did by filling it up with water and letting it sit. The moisture left in the weapon is what caused the rust not the salts. An ak can take alot of abuse, if it were a shtf type scenario just keep your bore clean (clp and water on patches) and wipe down your bolt carrier and it will still last longer than you will even if it gets alittle corrosion in the gas system.

 

Sorry to call you out but I did the same thing but only for ~hour while I was eating dinner and I had rust forming on my muzzle brake. If I had not learned my lesson then I would have made the same error that you did.