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ErikTaylor

My Saiga 12 from start to finish

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Is it the picture, or are the ports actually angled towards the muzzle? I'm confused. It certainly looks that way but you noted that they are angled towards the receiver.

 

 

 

cimg2503w.jpg

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Stop- I have heard of the rail messing up the harmonics of the S12. I wouldn't know the difference in my situation because I installed the rail before I shot it for the first time, so I wouldn't know the difference. I'm glad you got yours figured out.

 

Deputy- I assure you those are definitely angled towards the receiver. If you look close enough into the ports you'll see the angle of the port pointing towards the receiver.

 

Vicarious- I'm glad you like it. Hopefully you'll find some good and helpful info here!

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Great info, thanks for taking the time to put this together it is very informative for us new to S12s.

 

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Hey Arch. I'm glad it's made it a little easier for you. It's not all that difficult to learn. You'll love the platform when you get used to it. If you have any questions please do ask. Someone will be able to answer it!

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Deputy- I assure you those are definitely angled towards the receiver. If you look close enough into the ports you'll see the angle of the port pointing towards the receiver.

 

 

Maybe it's just the shadowing with the pic. If you look at the holes, the bottom part of the hole is light gray and appears to be metal angled in towards the muzzle. The top part of the hole is dark and appears to facing towards the barrel.

 

Probably just a weird optical illusion with the lighting.

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Deputy- I assure you those are definitely angled towards the receiver. If you look close enough into the ports you'll see the angle of the port pointing towards the receiver.

 

 

Maybe it's just the shadowing with the pic. If you look at the holes, the bottom part of the hole is light gray and appears to be metal angled in towards the muzzle. The top part of the hole is dark and appears to facing towards the barrel.

 

Probably just a weird optical illusion with the lighting.

 

I think the confusion here is what part of the cut is angled towards the muzzle....

 

As you are drilling the hole, the drill bit should be at a 45-60 degree angle with the part of the barrel going to the chamber... I hope that clears up the confusion (if i'm wrong please let me know and i'll edit or remove this)

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This is the direction I drilled mine and I've had no problems, hope this clears up all confusion.

 

Also I had the same problem as stoplossed. It's not the harmonics, its the way the rail mounts. It sits on the gas tube (and squeezes it if you actually tighten it) instead of on the gas block. The chaos rail should fix this but I can't be sure until I finally get it.

post-23762-094229700 1280795474_thumb.jpg

Edited by KillDozer

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This is the direction I drilled mine and I've had no problems, hope this clears up all confusion.

 

Also I had the same problem as stoplossed. It's not the harmonics, its the way the rail mounts. It sits on the gas tube (and squeezes it if you actually tighten it) instead of on the gas block. The chaos rail should fix this but I can't be sure until I finally get it.

 

Good pic Killdozer. Thats exactly how mine is drilled. If it wasn't such a PITA to get it off I'd just take it off real quick to show you guys, but again I assure you the ports are drilled correctly!

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This is the direction I drilled mine and I've had no problems, hope this clears up all confusion.

 

Also I had the same problem as stoplossed. It's not the harmonics, its the way the rail mounts. It sits on the gas tube (and squeezes it if you actually tighten it) instead of on the gas block. The chaos rail should fix this but I can't be sure until I finally get it.

 

Good pic Killdozer. Thats exactly how mine is drilled. If it wasn't such a PITA to get it off I'd just take it off real quick to show you guys, but again I assure you the ports are drilled correctly!

Thanks, and I agree, if only it came off with a button, experimentation would actually be feasible for those of us without a press.

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Looks good, but in the later pics it looks like you suffer from my malady. The foregrip seems to angle DOWN! Only way I've heard to correct this is to grind the block down which I refuse to do until I refinish again. Here's y angled pic.

 

Picture001-2.jpg

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Wow that's interesting. I never noticed that until you pointed it out. I re tightened it and it seems to be straighter now. I just ordered a Chaos rail along with some weld on HK sights, so there are going to be some changes to this platform. I PM'ed a mod in hoping to somehow allow me to edit the original post to edit and add some more things. Anyways, more to come!

 

What did you end up doing about your cant? Is there anything you can do.

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Well..I'm new here (this is my very first post)......and I have learned a lot from this post. I've been looking at the S12's for a long time, and I've finally decided to get one. I'm going to do the same thing you did...start off with a new non-converted S12, and build it up exactly like you did. Lots of great into in this post....thanks again!!! :D

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Well..I'm new here (this is my very first post)......and I have learned a lot from this post. I've been looking at the S12's for a long time, and I've finally decided to get one. I'm going to do the same thing you did...start off with a new non-converted S12, and build it up exactly like you did. Lots of great into in this post....thanks again!!! :D

I would suggest 3 ports at 3/32, or 4 at 5/64. Not 4 at 3/32.

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Looks good, but in the later pics it looks like you suffer from my malady. The foregrip seems to angle DOWN! Only way I've heard to correct this is to grind the block down which I refuse to do until I refinish again. Here's y angled pic.

 

Picture001-2.jpg

 

 

Still looks great!

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When you tightened up the bolts, did you go all in from one side or did you do it in a "star-pattern" like lug nuts on a car wheel?

 

Reason I ask, is while you may need to grind down your gas block, it's very possible that the fasteners were just torqued down in a line and that shifted the whole thing to angle downwards.

 

IMO, before grinding, loosen up all the screws, screw them all in 90% of the way, then screw them all the way down alternating sides like you would when you put the wheel back on a car. i.e. go 1 3 2 4 rather than 1 2 3 4. Maybe that will fix it?

 

If not, grind away!

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I was biting my tongue, so as not to be a wet blanket, but since shalamov brings it up:

Question about step 8... Umh... I was taught that the "corner" on the bolt that You just cut is essential to proper un-locking timing of the chamber and that one should always look at any wear/tapping there (sometime caused by improper installation of recoil buffer) and replace the bolt carrier in case that corner is worn… Based on that "teaching" I would be carefull/scared shooting magnum loads from that gun...

 

It worries me too, but I don't think it is unsafe. The corners that have been trimmed from the cam slot and the cam follower on the bolt form a step that keeps the carrier from trying to turn the bolt when it is pressing it forward (which is almost the entire cycle except for and unlocking and a short distance after that). In the S-12 the bolt gets knocked off that step by the barrel extension hitting the cam follower on the bolt. That is the job of that angled corner at the open end of the extractor slot. (which could do with some polishing) This is different than the AK-47. On a standard AK, there is a ramp that acts on one locking lug that does the job. The cam follower gets squeezed between that ramp on the barrel extension and the flat step in the cam groove, then should squirt out like a watermelon seed, starting the locking, then the ramped surface of the cam finishes the job. If there is binding just before the bolt starts to rotate, it is due to friction between those three parts. Polish them to reduce friction, certainly, but _don't_ round the corners,

 

Now it IS true that the rails engage slots in the carrier and bolt, so the bolt can't rotate, but if the camming surface is trying then there is increased friction on the rails, because the slots have to press into the rails to prevent the roatation. No problem if the gun is clean and lubed, but when dirty and/or dry, it can be enough to impede functioning. Note that the AR design does not have such a step on the camming surface, and this is one reason those guns don't operate well when dry or dirty...the gas key and head of the cam following pin are trying to bind in the slot in the top of the receiver.

 

 

Conventional wisdom is that it just looser tolerances that make AKs work better dirty, but Comrade Kalishnikov knows better. The key is the bolt not trying to turn until the bolt is almost all the way forward, and allowing the cam follower to ride on an angled surface, rather than the flat step negates a key advantage of the AK design. Loose tolerances do little good if the rotational forces are forcing the slots hard against the rails.

 

Now it well may be that the bolt still has a step to ride on, but the way the corners have been rounded in this case, it sure does not look like it to me. To check it, take the bolt and carrier out of the gun, and align by eye the rail slots in the bolt and carrier. Now push the bolt rearward into the carrier as hard as you can. The bolt should NOT rotate when you do this. If it does, you have a gun that, while safe, is nearly as intolerant to filth as an AR. Due to the weight of the shotgun shells, the more massive two piece bolt, and the friction of stripping them from the mag, and stuffing that blunt nose into the chamber, it is probably a bigger issue on a shotgun than a rifle feeding bottleneck rounds.

Edited by kevbo

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Wanted to add one more thanks to Erik on this post. It was instrumental to my gun running low brass. Going from $12 to $5 boxes of ammo will allow me to enjoy this gun much more often.

 

I just added a para-cord wrap to my Ace stock. It's not as nice looking as Erik's as this was not as easy as it looked, but I think I ended up with something workable.

post-27239-0-29748100-1300223053_thumb.jpg

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Great write up! Wow...thanks for providing a lot of details. I want to modify my Saiga 12 and this helps me understand the parts and name of the parts I want to change; thanks again.

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This post needs to be a sticky.

It IS a sticky.

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I am kinda new to the forum. I just had to say what an awesome write up. Thanks for all the effort. I have experienced lots of FTE's and FTL's. I am convinced that your well documented steps will help and could eliminate my problem. Thanks again. YOU DA MAN! 032.gif

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