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My Saiga 12 from start to finish


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#61 ErikTaylor

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 08:31 AM


Well..I'm new here (this is my very first post)......and I have learned a lot from this post. I've been looking at the S12's for a long time, and I've finally decided to get one. I'm going to do the same thing you did...start off with a new non-converted S12, and build it up exactly like you did. Lots of great into in this post....thanks again!!! :D

I would suggest 3 ports at 3/32, or 4 at 5/64. Not 4 at 3/32.


Pauly is right with those port sizes. For myself I really wanted the capability to run Wally World Winchester through it, and even though it is over gassed I have the V-Plug to tame it so I don't bash the rear trunnion. Also I rarely shoot high power slugs or anything like that in my S12 which again would alleviate the likely hood of a damaged trunnion.

Wanted to add one more thanks to Erik on this post. It was instrumental to my gun running low brass. Going from $12 to $5 boxes of ammo will allow me to enjoy this gun much more often.

I just added a para-cord wrap to my Ace stock. It's not as nice looking as Erik's as this was not as easy as it looked, but I think I ended up with something workable.


Wow Milpond that looks great. It is a bitch though isn't it? Halfway through I thought, "Why did I even do this?" haha but in the end I'm glad the way it turned out. Yours too!

Great write up! Wow...thanks for providing a lot of details. I want to modify my Saiga 12 and this helps me understand the parts and name of the parts I want to change; thanks again.


No problem. I'm glad this thread was able to help you. I'm going to redo another one and I'm going to have to go back to this thread. HAHA.

I am kinda new to the forum. I just had to say what an awesome write up. Thanks for all the effort. I have experienced lots of FTE's and FTL's. I am convinced that your well documented steps will help and could eliminate my problem. Thanks again. YOU DA MAN! Posted Image


I'm glad that you benefited from this. If you have any questions please feel free to PM me.
Your wife is just like a new gun...sooner or later you are going to want to shoot them both.

Posted Image

#62 flashpoint08

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 12:44 AM

hi guys first post! I'm thinking about trading my PSL for a saiga 12 and of course plan on converting it, this guide has really got me comfortable with the notion of what I'll need to do especially to be able to shoot the cheap wally world ammo when shooting clays with friends.

I do have a question tho, how hard is it to actually drill out the gas ports on the barrel? will I need a drill press? and will I need a carbide drill bit or something similar? Thanks again for the awesome write up!

Edited by flashpoint08, 27 August 2011 - 12:44 AM.

Posted Image

#63 bobdavis73

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 02:32 PM

I just finished doing mine and it was very easy with a pistol drill and standard high speed steel bit. Since there are already holes there you don't have any problems with the drill taking off on you. The biggest problem is getting the metal burr out of the inside of the barrel. I'm not happy with mine at this point but don't know any tricks to get it really clean. Put something hard down that barrel and you'll scratch the hell out of it. I have used a brass wire cleaner brush till I'm blue in the face and it still has a bit of a burr inside. I am at a point that I will simply take it out and shoot it. The image i am seeing might not be a burr at all but rather the holes magnified by the reflective surface of the inside of the barrel. I hope this helps.

I think this might be my first post on this very awesome forum. I just want to say thanks to the hundreds that have preceded me for all the great information and willingness to help others. Posted Image

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#64 Yeoldetool

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 03:21 PM

hi guys first post! I'm thinking about trading my PSL for a saiga 12 and of course plan on converting it, this guide has really got me comfortable with the notion of what I'll need to do especially to be able to shoot the cheap wally world ammo when shooting clays with friends.

I do have a question tho, how hard is it to actually drill out the gas ports on the barrel? will I need a drill press? and will I need a carbide drill bit or something similar? Thanks again for the awesome write up!


No, you can use a hand drill. Just be sure to use a guide to line the drill up with. What I did was put a a drill that fit the holes that were already drilled into one and bored out the ones next to it with the same angle alignment. Go slow and don't put too much pressure on it. It doesn't take much and you don't want to leave burrs or punch through and ding the inside of the barrel across from the ports. If you do have any burrs inside you can remove them with a round dental burr spun with your fingers or very carefully with a micro file.

"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

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#65 pitbulld45

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 09:09 AM

Like everyone else said great info. Im still a bit confused on the port angle. If I am understaning this correct if you put a drill bit in the holes the top shold be angled at the muzzle and the bottom toward the reciever. Is that correct? If it is mine are drilled the wrong way. Can I redrill them pointing the other way, and if so should I enlarge them just a tad? They are already the right size. Any help would be great thanks.

#66 vicdoc

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 07:32 PM

Like everyone else said great info. Im still a bit confused on the port angle. If I am understaning this correct if you put a drill bit in the holes the top shold be angled at the muzzle and the bottom toward the reciever. Is that correct? If it is mine are drilled the wrong way. Can I redrill them pointing the other way, and if so should I enlarge them just a tad? They are already the right size. Any help would be great thanks.

My ports are angled so that the top of the drill bit would be angled towards the receiver, not the other way around. Seems like it would not shave as much stuff off the shot cup this way.

#67 Yeoldetool

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 07:58 PM

Like everyone else said great info. Im still a bit confused on the port angle. If I am understaning this correct if you put a drill bit in the holes the top shold be angled at the muzzle and the bottom toward the reciever. Is that correct? If it is mine are drilled the wrong way. Can I redrill them pointing the other way, and if so should I enlarge them just a tad? They are already the right size. Any help would be great thanks.


That's right! Don't do it the other way! The drill bit should be angled toward the muzzle through the bore. RECEIVER-----\\\-----MUZZLE

"It isn't always being fast or even accurate that counts, it's being willing. I found out early that most men regardless of cause or need aren't willing. They blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger and I won't." - The Shootist (John Wayne)

 

"You have enemies?  Good!  That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" - Winston Churchill

 


#68 vicdoc

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:19 AM

Thanks for posting this how to. It spurred me to try it and I removed my gas block last night. It was much easier than I thought because the pins just pop right out. Here is the angle of the holes for additional info:
Posted Image
Here are my ports before, note the furthest port is just clear of the block so I didn't do the "D" mod:
Posted Image
Here are the ports after, the front 3 I opened to 5/64ths, and the closest opened to 3/32" since I don't like the low powered cheap stuff, I mainly use mid-powered Winchesters, very cheap at Wallymart:
:Posted Image
Here is the tool I put together to help with the block removal process, the plates are called Ultra-tow Spring Shackles at Northern Tool, and they are about 4-3/8 x 1-3/16th and 3/16" thick. The bolts are 1/2" by 3" long, got them at Lowes. I covered the metal with tape to spare the finish. The fixture is clamped on the receiver side of the block and supported by my metal press plates, and the barrel is protected by a wood block as the press pushes down on the barrel. It pushed out really easy, and the block goes back by putting the tool on the far side of the block, and I just lube and use a rubber mallet to return it to the barrel. If the block needs rotated, it of course must be adjusted before you engage the gas tube. scratched some alignment marks to help with that as well as the scratch mark you use for the back end of the block.
Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by vicdoc, 15 February 2012 - 04:45 PM.


#69 vicdoc

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:25 AM

Oh and one more thing, after cleaning the barrel I did note some lint caught by the rough edges of the holes so I smoothed them out by taping a very small piece of 600 emery cloth to the end of a fat aluminum shotgun cleaning rod, and I used that to smooth the flash out very carefully at the exact location of the ports, which is easy to locate.

#70 wnagy

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:31 PM

I am new to the forum. This might be a dumb question but when you enlarge the gas ports can you still shoot 3 inch shells if you are on the right gas setting. I have a MD arms gas plug and css gas puc.

#71 Mullet Man

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 12:32 AM

I am new to the forum. This might be a dumb question but when you enlarge the gas ports can you still shoot 3 inch shells if you are on the right gas setting. I have a MD arms gas plug and css gas puc.


Yes.
Any (2-3/4" or 3") shell will fire off in a Saiga, even with the gas completely closed off. Its the cycling action that is determined by the gas regulator position and the power of the cartridge being used.

Pick the right setting for the cartridge you plan on using. Less gas for high power loads, more gas for light power loads.

Edited by Mullet Man, 27 March 2012 - 12:32 AM.

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#72 skullbox

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 01:42 PM

This reminds me of putting together cheap furnature... Once you finish you feel like you could start a business doing it. LOL

#73 Mr.W

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:57 PM

Sweet write up man and bitch'n beast.. I just got a saiga12 today at local gun show(first shootgun) i got a bunch of 2 3/4 1oz. 8 shot cause dealer said would be fine but this bad boy wont spit shells out we tryed changing from 2 - 1 but still not spitting. Is that normal ? picking up some bigger oz tomorrow to try..

#74 KennyFSU

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 09:26 AM

Looks good Erik, do you charge to do any conversions? My friend has one and is located in Tampa, thanks.

#75 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:20 PM

Has anyone considered the fact that there are some very critical details in this writeup that are very wrong and are causing folks to ruin their S-12 bolts and carriers? I'm asking for a Mod Review on this topic....

imag036.GIF

 

 - Bolt & Carrier Mods and Polishing > http://www.Cobras-Custom.com <

Details on Cobra's Custom ReliabilitySystem >> http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/90388-new-ak-saiga-vepr-bolt-and-trigger-service-no-extra-waiting/

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#76 -Indy-

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 09:27 PM

already ready already... :up:

Anymore review... let me know.

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#77 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 10:22 PM

Thank you Indy. This has been bothering me for a while. When I had to send a customer's bolt & carrier back to the importer after even the president of warranty dept said it was FUBAR, from the exact same wear patterns shown in this thead, actually promoting doing it to a new gun on purpose....that was just too much. Then twice now, in as many weeks... another member shows up talking about doing it to his parts. Fortunately this one was asking first.... instead of showing off pics and telling even more people to screw up their irreplaceable parts.
Section 8...... hmmmm now I get it! Posted Image
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#78 speed455

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:29 AM

Very important to deburr gas ports inside the barrel , this will help prevent build up of melted plastic in the gas chamber . I used scotch brite on a drill wraped around a bore brush . Nice write up........



#79 GunFun

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:32 PM

Has anyone considered the fact that there are some very critical details in this writeup that are very wrong and are causing folks to ruin their S-12 bolts and carriers? I'm asking for a Mod Review on this topic....

 

Are you referring to the stuff about the timing lugs? 


If we are going to be cleaning up old tech threads, I'd like some kind of warning around the "D mod thread". 'Mostly right' gets a lot of people into trouble.



#80 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:02 PM

5) Enlarged the port hole in the gas block- If you look at the first pic from #4, you'll see that the hole barely makes it around the top gas port hole (muzzle side) so I enlarged the port hole in the gas block to allow all the gas to get into the gun. Took about 35 minutes.
a) This part you can do while you are enlarging the gas ports in the barrel. This is why I said if you have a large brake you are going to need to take it off so you can slide the gas block off the barrel. If you haven't done so already, this is the time to take your brake off.
b Examine the barrel and the area specifically around the gas ports (you can see the "ring" around the gas ports in the barrel made from the gas block). If you are lucky and the gas block hole does give enough area for the ports to clear the gas block then everything is fine and nothing else needs to be done. But if not...

post147131231243706thum.jpg

c) Take a file, or dremel (as I used) and clear material in gas block hole until you can see enough has been taken away for all the gas to get into the gas system.

post147131231244176thum.jpg

d) Reassmeble according to instructions in #4.

JeffD's gas block removal thread

6) Rounded out the extractor port at the end of the barrel- This really helped with FTE's by saving energy in the action. The theory is this sharp area digs into the rim of the shell and robs energy from the extraction process which could yeild FTE's. Took about 20 minutes.
a) I got this from a thread from MD Arms (in his business section). What you're going to need to do is take a small file and take gentle strokes and very shallowly round off the sharp angle that is located where the extractor slides over the chamber. If you look at my pic you'll see the area that I'm speaking of (it's in yellow. DO NOT MESS WITH THE PARTS IN RED). Take gentle strokes from starting inside the chamber and round up. Feel with your finger until it is more round, and not sharp.

cimg2513d.jpg

7) Ground down the bolt, and polished it- This makes inserting a loaded magazine easier and also helps smooth out the action and cycling during firing. Took about 30 minutes or so.
a) Take the sandpaper bit and grind part of the bottom of the bolt when the bolt/carrier is in battery. I took a bit of the bulge away from the head of the bolt and made it more flat.
b Repeat polishing process.

cimg2514i.jpg

8)THE INSTRUCTIONS ( of section 8 ) BELOW ARE TO BE USED AT YOUR OWN RISK.... CUTTING/GRINDING/POLISHING AWAY TOO MUCH MATERIAL, AND FAILURE TO LEAVE THE ORIGINAL GEOMETRY OF THESE PARTS CAN CAUSE CATASTROPHIC FAILURE TO YOUR FIREARM!!!!

DO YOU KNOW WHAT TO REMOVE? WHAT NOT TO REMOVE? DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS SAFE AND WHAT IS NOT? IF NOT... DO NOT MAKE THIS PARTICULAR MODIFICATION TO YOUR SAIGA SHOTGUN!!!!


Round the corners/polished the bolt guide in the carrier, and also the bolt head- I did this in a way to make that last 1/4 inch that every says their carrier hangs up if they ride the carrier, and eliminate it. This has helped tremendously and allowed the action to be smoother.Took about 30 minutes or so.
a) Take a dremel and round the corners highlighted and try your best to take the angles out of the equation. Also smooth out and polish the carrier bolt channel and make that as smooth as possible. **IMPORTANT! Very minimal material removal. We are not trying to remove a bunch of material in this process. We want the inconsistencies taken out to create as little of friction as possible.**
b Repeat the polishing process for all the parts that you ground/smoothed out.

cimg2786q.jpg

cimg2785.jpg

 

 

 

There is a LOT wrong between steps 5 and 8 and especially #8. These areas should not even be touched with anything more than a cloth buffing wheel.


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 - Bolt & Carrier Mods and Polishing > http://www.Cobras-Custom.com <

Details on Cobra's Custom ReliabilitySystem >> http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/90388-new-ak-saiga-vepr-bolt-and-trigger-service-no-extra-waiting/

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