Running the Gas Puck Wet or Dry????

[jcmacconnell 25]

So I went shooting yesterday and after about 200 rounds of buckshot, slug, and winchester 7 1/2 birdshot (which all ran fine, even the birdshot...no FTF or FTE) it seemed like the gas system was starting to cease up. It was only ceasing up on the birdshot. Buck and Slug were still good. I was wondering if maybe it was the gas cylinder being clogged. I have the twister puck and when I went to clean the gun I pretty much had to hammer out the puck and wrench off my gunfixer plug. All the grooves were filled with carbon (which was packed really tight). I was wondering if anyone had the same problem or if you all recommend running the gas puck wet, as in lubed up, as opposed to dry. Or would it be a break in issue with the puck and the gas cylinder (the gun is still fairly new.....as in about 350 rounds being through it)

 

Thanks

 

Jason

[geepelton 105]

The gas system should be left dry except for a little oil or anti seize on the threads of the adjustment nob. The carbon buildup is normal. Hope this helps

Edited June 20, 2010 by Rangerguy

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I've run both ways and dry is best. Wet seems to make things 'gum' up and the debris ends up about the same consitency as tar.

Edited June 20, 2010 by evlblkwpnz

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

The gas system should always be run dry. If your performance starts to degrade, pull out the plug, empty the debris, and clear the ports with a bent paperclip or a piece of 18 gauge wire.

 

The residue packing the channels in your puck isn't likely to affect performance.

[PVT Pablo 25]

I made the mistake of putting a bunch of lube on the puck and when I fired I got a whole bunch of lube in the eyes, not awesome. I now run it dry with lube on the threads, works just fine.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Dry, if you lube it up it will just bake the oil into a tarry substance that does nothing but attract gunk...

[Ronswin 26]

If you lube the "puck" (tappet) you can also run the risk of the lubricant burning off in the gas chamber with the combusting powder and causing malfunctions and/ or fouling in this chamber. Also, some shotshell powders are inherently "dirtier" than others after combustion and will leave more residue and carbon build-up. Check the Saiga's gas ports with a dental pick or something similar as fouling will accumulate there and affect operation.

[ufo 20]

Allways dry.

 

I made one small mistake(wet puck) and after several rounds i had to take big hammer to unleash puck - mailfunctions of cycle, more carbon residue etc.

[auburn2 1]

I guess I am in the minority here I lube it with breakfree CLP. I also use the regular stock puck.

 

CLP is quite a bit thinner than most regular gun oils and it breaks down carbon so I don't get a gunky build up.

 

I have not had a problem. The gun cycles everything I've put through it except winchester light target loads. With those it is as likely to fail with the first as with the 100th round.

 

I would not lube it with regular gun oil though.

Edited July 10, 2010 by auburn2

[stoplossed 2]

Dry....

[yard 1]

I hate to resurrect this very old thread but I have to beat this maybe-not-quite-dead horse. My s12 is a 2011 model imported by Legion. The gas system has 4 nicely exposed and clean ports. As the weapon is new and under warranty, I really want to make it work before I go and modify it or change out internals.

 

I contacted them when it failed to cycle #00 2 3/4 buck on setting 2 and 3" magnum shells on 1 get jammed against the breach. They responded:

"The shot gun needs at least 1and a1/4 once of shot for back pressure and needs to run wet with lube not oil but white Lithium grease, on the rails and bolt stem, if this does not solve your issue call and ask to speak with the head Gun Smith Frank....."

 

Wet? he didn't mention the gas system. I haven't shot it since I changed how I usually clean and lube, but I did lube the crap out of the puck and noticed that it makes a whole new sound when I handle the weapon. My usual wipe w/ oily patch for a thin film method would make the puck just tap back and forth when you tilt the weapon. Now when you move it you can hear a ghasp as the puck pulls air through the ports. I don't want a face full of Hoppe's #9 but the seal that the puck makes now sounds promising. I greased as recommended elswhere.

 

I'm asking here rather than just email Legion back because here I hope to get more heads on my issue. Any new takes on this with newer models? THANKS !

[rnemhrd 165]

You want to dry out the gas chamber and puck. The burnt powder, and wad fragments will mix with that and the heat will bake it up nicely in to a gunky mess. Keep that area dry. One thing to try is re clean the gun and take all the lube off and hand cycle the gun dry 200 to 300 times fast untill you arm is about to fall off. this will allow metal to metal contact and the parts to mate to each other and smooth out some of the roughness. Relube and try it out with the gas system dry. Hand break in has worked for many and saves ammo.

[topmaul 42]

I run it wet

[Goose 95]

I hate to resurrect this very old thread but I have to beat this maybe-not-quite-dead horse. My s12 is a 2011 model imported by Legion. The gas system has 4 nicely exposed and clean ports. As the weapon is new and under warranty, I really want to make it work before I go and modify it or change out internals.

 

I contacted them when it failed to cycle #00 2 3/4 buck on setting 2 and 3" magnum shells on 1 get jammed against the breach. They responded:

"The shot gun needs at least 1and a1/4 once of shot for back pressure and needs to run wet with lube not oil but white Lithium grease, on the rails and bolt stem, if this does not solve your issue call and ask to speak with the head Gun Smith Frank....."

 

Wet? he didn't mention the gas system. I haven't shot it since I changed how I usually clean and lube, but I did lube the crap out of the puck and noticed that it makes a whole new sound when I handle the weapon. My usual wipe w/ oily patch for a thin film method would make the puck just tap back and forth when you tilt the weapon. Now when you move it you can hear a ghasp as the puck pulls air through the ports. I don't want a face full of Hoppe's #9 but the seal that the puck makes now sounds promising. I greased as recommended elswhere.

 

I'm asking here rather than just email Legion back because here I hope to get more heads on my issue. Any new takes on this with newer models? THANKS !

 

Gas system should be dry.

[corbin 621]

Definitely dry for me. Tried running it wet once. Wasn't impressed with the sledge that accumulated. Much easier to clean when you run it dry.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Corbin

[TheDarkHorse 216]

Anyone tried cleaning the gas system with WD-40? It's a solvent, so it theoretically seems ideal. I may give it a go later today.

[hasdrubal 3]

As long as you make sure it's all out of the gun before shooting. Stuff burns pretty good, would suck to have a pool of it somewhere and get a fireball out of somewhere unexpected.

[yard 1]

Thank you to all responding. rnemhrd: Before contacting Legion, I cleaned and dried the whole thing and cycled 'til jelly-armed. It felt much smoother afterwards but that didn't lead to reliability. (when I bought it, cycling the charger felt like sanding something)

 

topmaul: the sucking sound the gooey puck makes when wet really is inticing. I think if the dry setup doesn't work I will gradually add drops of oil until just wet enough to seal tighter and see what happens. I don't want a tarry mess or face-full of fire/slop but if it makes this thing cycle it will help me get it broken in. Charging to clear and load nearly every round is no way to spend a day.

 

Thanks again all, I'll post.

[Big John! 2,062]

Anyone tried cleaning the gas system with WD-40? It's a solvent, so it theoretically seems ideal. I may give it a go later today.

WD40 is NOT a solvent. It is a lubricant.

[Garys4598 1,065]

Dry!!!!!!!!!

[sneaky 2]

Dry puck. Real light cost of frog lube on internals (not gas n flame areas). Works like a champ

[Big John! 2,062]

Dry puck. Real light cost of frog lube on internals (not gas n flame areas). Works like a champ

So dry puck seems to be the consensus. No lube even where the piston thingamajig (can't remember the proper name) slides back and forth in the tube???

 

I've been reading all morning trying to find decent thread on what people are using to lube and where to and where NOT to lube. Not having much luck, so I figured I'd ask.

[HB of CJ 1,263]

Run it dry. Just get used to a routine clean out. It is the nature of the beast. Oil will just junk or carbon up and make it worserer. HB of CJ

[mikeNM 8]

FROG LUBE... I run a very light coat of Froglube on the puck and all the internal parts/bore... the crud just wipes off... My TAC 65, 22 suppresor is as new and it gets way nasty... the crud wipes off with a rag and nylon bristle brush at worst....I didn't believe how good this stuff is till I tried it....

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Thank you to all responding. rnemhrd: Before contacting Legion, I cleaned and dried the whole thing and cycled 'til jelly-armed. It felt much smoother afterwards but that didn't lead to reliability. (when I bought it, cycling the charger felt like sanding something)

 

topmaul: the sucking sound the gooey puck makes when wet really is inticing. I think if the dry setup doesn't work I will gradually add drops of oil until just wet enough to seal tighter and see what happens. I don't want a tarry mess or face-full of fire/slop but if it makes this thing cycle it will help me get it broken in. Charging to clear and load nearly every round is no way to spend a day.

 

Thanks again all, I'll post.

Okay, you seem to be on the wrong track to achieve reliability. Adding oil to your gas system isn't going to help anything. Beak in is a minor route to improve reliability, not achieve it. You need to check your gas system and get it right. At least do a proper polish and reprofile if the bolt carrier/bolt and hammer. Adding junk to your gas system will if anything create new cycling problems once fouling begins to accumulate.

[TheDarkHorse 216]

Anyone tried cleaning the gas system with WD-40? It's a solvent, so it theoretically seems ideal. I may give it a go later today.

WD40 is NOT a solvent. It is a lubricant.

I stand corrected!

I just figured anything that is 50% mineral spirits must be more of a solvent.

It sure cleans up greasy and oily parts good!

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

You guys would be appalled if you saw the condition of my weapons before I do most of these videos. They don't have to be clean to run. I have never cleaned the SBS or the 3G rig, not even the gas block or puck. I apply a drop of lube on the hook, where the hammer contacts the carrier, where the carrier contacts the bolt, and where the carrier contacts the rails. That's it. CLP Breakfree.

[bahamasair666 1]

I lube the same spots as evlblk but one thing I've noticed is that since I got my auto plug I haven't cleaned my gas chamber at all. I have about 1200 rounds of fiocchi #7 and #9 through it and can still hear the puck move when I rock the gun back and forth. Before I had to unscrew the plug and dump out all the crap every 250 rounds. I'm guessing when the piston on the auto plug opens up it blows all the crap out of the pressure bleed holes in the plug. Anyone else noticed the same thing?

[yard 1]

Thank you to all responding. rnemhrd: Before contacting Legion, I cleaned and dried the whole thing and cycled 'til jelly-armed. It felt much smoother afterwards but that didn't lead to reliability. (when I bought it, cycling the charger felt like sanding something)

 

topmaul: the sucking sound the gooey puck makes when wet really is inticing. I think if the dry setup doesn't work I will gradually add drops of oil until just wet enough to seal tighter and see what happens. I don't want a tarry mess or face-full of fire/slop but if it makes this thing cycle it will help me get it broken in. Charging to clear and load nearly every round is no way to spend a day.

 

Thanks again all, I'll post.

Okay, you seem to be on the wrong track to achieve reliability. Adding oil to your gas system isn't going to help anything. Beak in is a minor route to improve reliability, not achieve it. You need to check your gas system and get it right. At least do a proper polish and reprofile if the bolt carrier/bolt and hammer. Adding junk to your gas system will if anything create new cycling problems once fouling begins to accumulate.

 

As it turned out, I didn't try adding those oil drops. I ran 1 3/8 oz pheasant loads 75rds no issues, then 25rds of 12 pellet #00 and that worked 100% too. All 2 3/4" Nobel on factory plug setting 2. Back to the bulk junk and even that worked about 4/5 of the time. I think the white lithium on the rails and bolt stem and the CLEAN AND DRY gas system were both key. It seems like if I want to run lighter and weaker ammo I will have to mess with the gas plug or (I heard) change out the spring for a lighter one (from a 1911?). I'm ok with the heavier loads so I will stick with that and leave the internals alone.

 

Also new MD20 and SGM 10rd sticks worked great. Thank you again to all who responded and advised and to GunFun for other help. Nice forum!

Edited November 23, 2012 by yard

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Thank you to all responding. rnemhrd: Before contacting Legion, I cleaned and dried the whole thing and cycled 'til jelly-armed. It felt much smoother afterwards but that didn't lead to reliability. (when I bought it, cycling the charger felt like sanding something)

 

topmaul: the sucking sound the gooey puck makes when wet really is inticing. I think if the dry setup doesn't work I will gradually add drops of oil until just wet enough to seal tighter and see what happens. I don't want a tarry mess or face-full of fire/slop but if it makes this thing cycle it will help me get it broken in. Charging to clear and load nearly every round is no way to spend a day.

 

Thanks again all, I'll post.

Okay, you seem to be on the wrong track to achieve reliability. Adding oil to your gas system isn't going to help anything. Beak in is a minor route to improve reliability, not achieve it. You need to check your gas system and get it right. At least do a proper polish and reprofile if the bolt carrier/bolt and hammer. Adding junk to your gas system will if anything create new cycling problems once fouling begins to accumulate.

 

As it turned out, I didn't try adding those oil drops. I ran 1 3/8 oz pheasant loads 75rds no issues, then 25rds of 12 pellet #00 and that worked 100% too. All 2 3/4" Nobel on factory plug setting 2. Back to the bulk junk and even that worked about 4/5 of the time. I think the white lithium on the rails and bolt stem and the CLEAN AND DRY gas system were both key. It seems like if I want to run lighter and weaker ammo I will have to mess with the gas plug or (I heard) change out the spring for a lighter one (from a 1911?). I'm ok with the heavier loads so I will stick with that and leave the internals alone.

 

Also new MD20 and SGM 10rd sticks worked great. Thank you again to all who responded and advised and to GunFun for other help. Nice forum!

No you don't have to use a lighter spring, (you can, but then you loose the ability to run heavy loads, which makes a fighting/hunting shotty worthless) You need proper gas and to remove excessive friction points. Is your gun converted? Have you reprofiled the hammer? Polished any internals? If simply lubing the rails improved reliabilty that much, it won't take much work to get that gun running like a champ.

Below is a picture of a reprofilled factory hammer versus a stock Tapco Hammer. You should take notice of the significant difference in countours. And lack of aburpt corners on the reprofiled hammer.

Use some 200-400grt sand paper to remove the coating on your rails inside your receiver. Fold a piece of sand paper and use that to remove the coating inside the rail slots on your bolt carrier, and from the bottom face that slides over the hammer. Those two things should really help, but not near as much as adressing an undersized port or obstructed port problem.

Good luck.