csolstice03 0 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Recently, I have been working on a build with Michael Rogers of Lone Star Arms. Last night I was contacting FFL's for my transfer and was informed of the following by a very smart guy. ( I hesitate to say someone out there could have transfered the gun to me accidently illegally because of the following law). "It is unlawful to possess, sell, transfer, or import any semi-automatic folding stock shotgun with a spring tension drum magazine capable of holding 12 rounds." I have attached NRA's newest list of Virginia's 2010 gun laws. Keep it handy and pass it on to your friends. VA gun laws 2010.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Recently, I have been working on a build with Michael Rogers of Lone Star Arms. Last night I was contacting FFL's for my transfer and was informed of the following by a very smart guy. ( I hesitate to say someone out there could have transfered the gun to me accidently illegally because of the following law). "It is unlawful to possess, sell, transfer, or import any semi-automatic folding stock shotgun with a spring tension drum magazine capable of holding 12 rounds." I have attached NRA's newest list of Virginia's 2010 gun laws. Keep it handy and pass it on to your friends. Thanks for that post! Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chevyman097 2,579 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 (edited) Wow that is really crazy! I hope you are still getting the fire arm you wanted and didnt have plans for a folding stock. It would suck to have to settle for some thing less desirable. imo Crazy laws...guns with folding stock obviously are more dangerous than ones without. Thank the lord I dont have any base ball bats with full auto triggers.... GL on your gun! Edited June 23, 2010 by Chevyman097 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Strange. Does that mean a folding stock S12 with a 12rd drum is illegal but one with a 20 is OK? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Strange. Does that mean a folding stock S12 with a 12rd drum is illegal but one with a 20 is OK? No, because a 20 rd drum is capable of holding 12 rounds, or 13 or 14........I didn't read the whole law, only what charlie11 quoted but it sounds like the gun itself is OK, he just can't use a 12 or more rd drum with it. Ironically a 20 rd frankenmag sounds perfectly fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theplastik 67 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 So, the issue is the drum or the folding stock or both together? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ram123 17 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Charlie if you need a good FFL dealer/SOT let me know he's in the NOVA area. Charlie if you need a good FFL dealer/SOT let me know he's in the NOVA area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 (edited) The issue is a DRUM AND a FOLDING STOCK. I had this issue with my S12 and my MD Arms. Was going to take both to VA but the Folding stock with the Drum was a no-no. You can have a drum. You can have a folding stock. You can't have both. I made a comment about this a few years ago: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=30945&view=findpost&p=278319 Edited June 23, 2010 by SaigaNoobie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spicoli 12 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 This law refers to permanently afixed drums and was passed to specifically outlaw Streetsweepers. There has been talks to even remove this law. "Virginia is for "Gun" Lovers" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 (edited) Unless the law changes to say PERMANENTLY AFFIXED DRUM or something of the like, then a S12 w/Folding stock, and a 12+Rd Drum, are still illegal in VA. § 18.2-308.8. Importation, sale, possession or transfer of Striker 12's prohibited; penalty. It shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, possess or transfer the following firearms: the Striker 12, commonly called a "streetsweeper," or any semi-automatic folding stock shotgun of like kind with a spring tension drum magazine capable of holding twelve shotgun shells. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony. Edited June 23, 2010 by SaigaNoobie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted June 23, 2010 Report Share Posted June 23, 2010 Kinda like Shotgun 'Mags' and 'Pistol Grips' in NJ.. You can have one but NOT the other.. I agree with the 'stick-mag' theory.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Yes, this law exist in the state of Virginia. Yes, it was specifically written to address "Streetsweeper" style shotguns which are now Class III here in Virginia (check the date of this legislation). Would the average LEO be able to determine that you have both a Saiga 12 shotgun and a drum magazine that fits and may possibly violate this ordnance, probably not. I have used my particular Saiga 12 with one of the first produced MD20 drum magazines in dozens of matches here in Virginia often shooting with local and state LEO (a few also have and use Saiga 12 shotguns). Not once has any of these LEO ever mentioned arresting me for the aforementioned ordinance when using both the Saiga and drum magazine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 (edited) It's not illegal without a folding stock. And it isn't an ordinance. It's a state law, and violating it is a felony. That means if barney fife does catch you with one and knows the law says you can't have it, you will probably go to prison, and you will probably not be allowed to own weapons. Why fuck with it for a folding stock? Alternatively, why fuck with it for a drum mag? Edited June 24, 2010 by Shandlanos Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 (edited) It's not illegal without a folding stock. And it isn't an ordinance. It's a state law, and violating it is a felony. That means if barney fife does catch you with one and knows the law says you can't have it, you will probably go to prison, and you will probably not be allowed to own weapons. Why fuck with it for a folding stock? Alternatively, why fuck with it for a drum mag? My Saiga 12 has had a folding stock and pistol grip since 2005. My point was that this law, decree, regulation has never been used to arrest, prosecute, incarcerate a legal Saiga 12 gunowner in the State of Virginia. However, if you own a Saiga 12, live in Virginia and this regulation gives you the willies, insomnia, cold sweats then don't use the combination of Saiga 12, drum magazine and folding stock together. Edited June 24, 2010 by Ronswin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 (edited) The law was written specifically for the Striker or other "street sweeper type shotguns". If you want the facts, read the actual law. The Saiga 12 shotgun is NOT of like kind as the Striker 12. If the law said "any shotgun", yes, the Saiga 12 would count, the fact is that it doesn't. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.8 § 18.2-308.8. Importation, sale, possession or transfer of Striker 12's prohibited; penalty. It shall be unlawful for any person to import, sell, possess or transfer the following firearms: the Striker 12, commonly called a "streetsweeper," or any semi-automatic folding stock shotgun of like kind with a spring tension drum magazine capable of holding twelve shotgun shells. A violation of this section shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony. (1993, c. 888.) Edited June 24, 2010 by vbrtrmn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 (edited) It says "or any semi-automatic folding stock shotgun of like kind", it may have not been written with the Saiga 12 in mind but it does apply. THANKS I CAN READ! There is one sentence, not two, just like the Second Amendment. Again, the Saiga 12 is NOT of like kind to the street sweeper; the law is specifically for streetsweeper type shotguns. Read the damn title: § 18.2-308.8. Importation, sale, possession or transfer of Striker 12's prohibited; penalty. What are you missing? Edited June 24, 2010 by vbrtrmn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Take it easy man. By saying any of like kind I took it to mean a shotgun with a folding stock and drum magazine that holds 12 or more rounds. I wasn't trying to start a fight over the interpretation of it, just discussing it. I clearly understand that you are capable of reading. Sorry bro. Unlike the fed, most Virginia Laws aren't written to trick you into breaking them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted June 24, 2010 Report Share Posted June 24, 2010 Take it easy man. By saying any of like kind I took it to mean a shotgun with a folding stock and drum magazine that holds 12 or more rounds. I wasn't trying to start a fight over the interpretation of it, just discussing it. I clearly understand that you are capable of reading. Sorry bro. Unlike the fed, most Virginia Laws aren't written to trick you into breaking them. No problem. Being a Virginia guy you probably know what you are talking about. I'm always overly cautious on these sorts of things, I can see what you are getting at with the distinction between State and Fed regulations, makes sense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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