Input Please

[gregomega 929]

Hello everybody. Thank you for your time and input.

 

Ive been wanting to purchase a saiga 7.62x39/AK-47 and I have a few questions.

 

1. How hard is the bullet guite/Trunnion to install?

 

2. Do you have to use the tap and drill set to install it or do 7.62s come with a predrilled hole?

 

3. Do you have to modify every magazine? or just non-US made mags?

 

4. Is this( http://www.centerfiresystems.com/sai-762.aspx ) the correct type of 7.62 to convert to an ak?

 

5. Are the muzzle brakes detachable? and how hard is it? Screw on and off or retaining pins???

 

6. Are all Saiga 7.62s chrome-lined?

 

7. This is what I want to end up with, with a few changes, but would prefer to do the conversion myself. I find it alot more fun to do, gradifying, and about $100 cheaper than what is being asked for it.

 

From reading about installing the bullet guide and modifying mags, its seems like alil more risk than im willing to take. But it may be easier than I think. Thats why im asking. I just converted an S12 and I found it to be quite fun and significantly cheaper than to pay someone to do it. So if someone has converted an S12 and a 7.62, are they much different to convert?

 

Again, Thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

 

Greg

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Hello everybody. Thank you for your time and input.

 

Ive been wanting to purchase a saiga 7.62x39/AK-47 and I have a few questions.

 

1. How hard is the bullet guite/Trunnion to install?

Never done it myself, but have seen plenty of feedback from those who have. If you're mechanically inclined, you should be able to get it done.

 

2. Do you have to use the tap and drill set to install it or do 7.62s come with a predrilled hole?

Never heard of one with a predrilled hole.

 

3. Do you have to modify every magazine? or just non-US made mags?

The point of installing the bullet guide is the ability to use unmodified AK mags.

 

4. Is this( http://www.centerfiresystems.com/sai-762.aspx ) the correct type of 7.62 to convert to an ak?

Looks like a stock Saiga to me, exactly what everyone's restoring to proper configuration.

 

5. Are the muzzle brakes detachable? and how hard is it? Screw on and off or retaining pins???

What muzzle brake? Some are threaded under the front sight, most are not.

 

6. Are all Saiga 7.62s chrome-lined?

Yep

 

7. This is what I want to end up with, with a few changes, but would prefer to do the conversion myself. I find it alot more fun to do, gradifying, and about $100 cheaper than what is being asked for it.

 

From reading about installing the bullet guide and modifying mags, its seems like alil more risk than im willing to take. But it may be easier than I think. Thats why im asking. I just converted an S12 and I found it to be quite fun and significantly cheaper than to pay someone to do it. So if someone has converted an S12 and a 7.62, are they much different to convert?

 

I've converted neither, but have assisted in the conversion of a few Saigas, both rifles and shotguns. The biggest difference is the bullet guide and slight change to the shape of the magazine well. AK-74 magazines will lock up in every stock Saiga 5.45 I've handled, and many do not require a bullet guide to function properly. Could be a simpler alternative if you like the caliber and want a potentially easier conversion.

 

Again, Thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

 

Greg

[jimdigriz 580]

1. How hard is the bullet guite/Trunnion to install?

 

Not too difficult. I've done three now, and I'm pretty far from being mechanically inclined. The first one, I screwed up and broke the tap off. I managed to get it fixed, with some advice from some people on the forum. The 2nd and 3rd conversions were much easier, because I went slowly, used lots of cutting oil, frequently backed the tap out to clear off shards, and used a better tool (namely, the screwdriver handle tap wrench I got at Sears). You've already done one conversion; this will not be that difficult.

 

On the other hand, if you have the money, I suggest just buying an SGL. Better quality, with no hassle.

 

Jim

Edited July 6, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[gregomega 929]

Thank you Shandlanos and Jim. I appreciate it. Just one more question, What is a SGL?

[tuktuk 0]

1. How hard is the bullet guite/Trunnion to install?

 

Not too difficult. I've done three now, and I'm pretty far from being mechanically inclined. The first one, I screwed up and broke the tap off. I managed to get it fixed, with some advice from some people on the forum. The 2nd and 3rd conversions were much easier, because I went slowly, used lots of cutting oil, frequently backed the tap out to clear off shards, and used a better tool (namely, the screwdriver handle tap wrench I got at Sears). You've already done one conversion; this will not be that difficult.

 

On the other hand, if you have the money, I suggest just buying an SGL. Better quality, with no hassle.

 

Jim

 

Do you know by any chance if SGL rifles are NJ compliant ? ty

[jimdigriz 580]

Thank you Shandlanos and Jim. I appreciate it. Just one more question, What is a SGL?

 

Just think of them as Saigas professionally converted by AK experts. They will have all of the standard military features, except full auto. See here:

http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=350

I have an SGL 31, and it is outstanding.

Edited July 6, 2010 by Jim Digriz

[jimdigriz 580]

Do you know by any chance if SGL rifles are NJ compliant ? ty

 

I don't believe so. For one thing, the muzzle break is not welded on.

[bigsal 757]

+1 for Jims suggestion. I second the SGL. By the time you have purchased all the tapco furniture from your picture, you will be within $50 of the SGL. They are a great choice for beginners.

 

As for the brake being welded on, you should go for one of the SGL-20's that were ban state compliment. they can be found on gunbroker.

Edited July 6, 2010 by bigsal

[tuktuk 0]

kool. thank u for the intel Gentlemen

[mattra 1]

I would also suggest going with an SGL. I purchased a saiga from Atlantic Firearms and conversion parts from Carolina Shooters and was happy with the service from both companies. I had fun converting my rifle. I took my time and thought I did a good job, but in the end - spent almost as much as I would have spent on an SGL.

 

I was happy with the outcome, but I would have been happier with an SGL. I would not have had to wait for parts, time spent on refinishing, etc. Could have spent more time actually shooting. I ultimately sold my saiga and got $400 for it. If it would have been an SGL, I think I could have gotten much closer to my actual investment. Its easy to feel like it would be cheaper because you will shell out cash over time for the conversion parts instead of one lump sum, but in the end you would probably be happier with an out of the box quality AK ready to go.

 

One of the reasons I went with the saiga was because I wanted to put a rail on the saiga and make it all tacticool. Ultimately I was disappointed with the accuracy with rail attachments - they seemed to mess with the barrel harmonics (my guess anyway).

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

1. How hard is the bullet guite/Trunnion to install?

 

Not too difficult. I've done three now, and I'm pretty far from being mechanically inclined. The first one, I screwed up and broke the tap off. I managed to get it fixed, with some advice from some people on the forum. The 2nd and 3rd conversions were much easier, because I went slowly, used lots of cutting oil, frequently backed the tap out to clear off shards, and used a better tool (namely, the screwdriver handle tap wrench I got at Sears). You've already done one conversion; this will not be that difficult.

 

On the other hand, if you have the money, I suggest just buying an SGL. Better quality, with no hassle.

 

Jim

 

Do you know by any chance if SGL rifles are NJ compliant ? ty

 

No, the SGLs are not compliant due to the muzzle brake not being permanently attached. K-Var also does not sell any firearms to NJ.

 

If you want an SGL in NJ you can have someone like Atlantic Firearms ship it to a Class III dealer in NJ who can neuter it for you and then transfer it to you. The only dealer I know of that does that sort of work for the public is Arms-n-Ammo in Waterford Works.

[bigsal 757]

1. How hard is the bullet guite/Trunnion to install?

 

Not too difficult. I've done three now, and I'm pretty far from being mechanically inclined. The first one, I screwed up and broke the tap off. I managed to get it fixed, with some advice from some people on the forum. The 2nd and 3rd conversions were much easier, because I went slowly, used lots of cutting oil, frequently backed the tap out to clear off shards, and used a better tool (namely, the screwdriver handle tap wrench I got at Sears). You've already done one conversion; this will not be that difficult.

 

On the other hand, if you have the money, I suggest just buying an SGL. Better quality, with no hassle.

 

Jim

 

Do you know by any chance if SGL rifles are NJ compliant ? ty

 

No, the SGLs are not compliant due to the muzzle brake not being permanently attached. K-Var also does not sell any firearms to NJ.

 

If you want an SGL in NJ you can have someone like Atlantic Firearms ship it to a Class III dealer in NJ who can neuter it for you and then transfer it to you. The only dealer I know of that does that sort of work for the public is Arms-n-Ammo in Waterford Works.

Didn't some of the 20's had the brake perminantly attached? I believe they used this FSB:

Edited July 12, 2010 by bigsal

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

1. How hard is the bullet guite/Trunnion to install?

 

Not too difficult. I've done three now, and I'm pretty far from being mechanically inclined. The first one, I screwed up and broke the tap off. I managed to get it fixed, with some advice from some people on the forum. The 2nd and 3rd conversions were much easier, because I went slowly, used lots of cutting oil, frequently backed the tap out to clear off shards, and used a better tool (namely, the screwdriver handle tap wrench I got at Sears). You've already done one conversion; this will not be that difficult.

 

On the other hand, if you have the money, I suggest just buying an SGL. Better quality, with no hassle.

 

Jim

 

Do you know by any chance if SGL rifles are NJ compliant ? ty

 

No, the SGLs are not compliant due to the muzzle brake not being permanently attached. K-Var also does not sell any firearms to NJ.

 

If you want an SGL in NJ you can have someone like Atlantic Firearms ship it to a Class III dealer in NJ who can neuter it for you and then transfer it to you. The only dealer I know of that does that sort of work for the public is Arms-n-Ammo in Waterford Works.

Didn't some of the 20's had the brake perminantly attached? I believe they used this FSB:

 

Yeah, some of the older ones do, I don't believe any of the current models do though.

[bigsal 757]

1. How hard is the bullet guite/Trunnion to install?

 

Not too difficult. I've done three now, and I'm pretty far from being mechanically inclined. The first one, I screwed up and broke the tap off. I managed to get it fixed, with some advice from some people on the forum. The 2nd and 3rd conversions were much easier, because I went slowly, used lots of cutting oil, frequently backed the tap out to clear off shards, and used a better tool (namely, the screwdriver handle tap wrench I got at Sears). You've already done one conversion; this will not be that difficult.

 

On the other hand, if you have the money, I suggest just buying an SGL. Better quality, with no hassle.

 

Jim

 

Do you know by any chance if SGL rifles are NJ compliant ? ty

 

No, the SGLs are not compliant due to the muzzle brake not being permanently attached. K-Var also does not sell any firearms to NJ.

 

If you want an SGL in NJ you can have someone like Atlantic Firearms ship it to a Class III dealer in NJ who can neuter it for you and then transfer it to you. The only dealer I know of that does that sort of work for the public is Arms-n-Ammo in Waterford Works.

Didn't some of the 20's had the brake perminantly attached? I believe they used this FSB:

 

Yeah, some of the older ones do, I don't believe any of the current models do though.

that is correct, but if this location-challenged individual keeps an eye out, one will doubtlessly show up on gunbroker that can meet his needs.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

that is correct, but if this location-challenged individual keeps an eye out, one will doubtlessly show up on gunbroker that can meet his needs.

 

Yes, definitely. There is a SLsomething post-ban model like this for sale on njgunforums right now actually.

[bigsal 757]

that is correct, but if this location-challenged individual keeps an eye out, one will doubtlessly show up on gunbroker that can meet his needs.

 

Yes, definitely. There is a SLsomething post-ban model like this for sale on njgunforums right now actually.

You should be kind and forward the URL to member tuktuk who live in the ban-state.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

that is correct, but if this location-challenged individual keeps an eye out, one will doubtlessly show up on gunbroker that can meet his needs.

 

Yes, definitely. There is a SLsomething post-ban model like this for sale on njgunforums right now actually.

You should be kind and forward the URL to member tuktuk who live in the ban-state.

 

He posts on that forum too and I believe he saw the ad, if not let me find it.

 

http://www.njgunforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7937

 

The guy's name is ar15bang and is selling a http://www.arsenalinc.com/slr101s.htm

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

^ Interesting. It's a shame that that was done to a Legion rifle, but oh well.. at least it allows those living behind enemy lines to own a new Russian "compliant" rifle. The FSB is especially interesting.. that's the heavier, older style, and not a '103 type.

[bigsal 757]

^ Interesting. It's a shame that that was done to a Legion rifle, but oh well.. at least it allows those living behind enemy lines to own a new Russian "compliant" rifle. The FSB is especially interesting.. that's the heavier, older style, and not a '103 type.

^Yeah I think the first batch or two or SGL10s and SGL20s were done with Bulgarian EVERYTHING. Only during the 2nd shipping of 21s were the rifles put out with mostly correct parts. The difference is marginal (I would rather have the accessory lug myself, but I am somewhat of a collector)...The guy should go for the neutered version though living in NJ.

Edited July 13, 2010 by bigsal

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

IMO he's better off to go with a Saiga conversion in NJ than the neutered milled legion rifle. The Saiga takes double stack magazines. Also the thumbhole still counts as a pistol grip in NJ so he'd want to change the stock anyway most likely. I bought mutilated bodies and made my own 15 rounders from commagazines. I did a front end conversion as well, pinned a k-var brake on a Bulgarian 74 24mm FSB.

 

I would have done the retainer too but I actually prefer the Saiga handguards to AK handguards anyway so I kept it as is. Oh and a Kreb's rear sight, as I like the aperture better than the notch. Only difference between this and a Legion rifle is some markings and a Y stamp.

 

Accessory lug would be nice but state law doesn't allow it as you guys know. I'm trying to come up with a way to make the saiga handguard take a cleaning rod as well, I have some ideas but I will probably get a second handguard to screw around with just in case it doesn't work.

 

Oh, and this one has Cerakote finish and not that Arsenal crayola-marker finish Seriously what is with that finish they use? I was able to remove most of the finish on my brake with just a little penetrating oil and some elbow grease.

 

Edited July 13, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[JBski 6]

Hello everybody. Thank you for your time and input.

 

Ive been wanting to purchase a saiga 7.62x39/AK-47 and I have a few questions.

 

1. How hard is the bullet guite/Trunnion to install?

Not very, as has been said before, if you know how to work a drill and a tap, you will be fine.

2. Do you have to use the tap and drill set to install it or do 7.62s come with a predrilled hole?

I suppose you could either drill and tap the receiver, or weld the guide in. Drilling and tapping for the guide is the easiest way though.

3. Do you have to modify every magazine? or just non-US made mags?

No, in order to use regular AK magazines, a bullet guide must be installed, and some material must be taken off of the mag catch with either a dremel tool or a file.

4. Is this( http://www.centerfiresystems.com/sai-762.aspx ) the correct type of 7.62 to convert to an ak?

Yes, but be aware that some 7.62's do not have a Pistol grip nut hole, so one must be made during the conversion. This can be accomplished with a drill and a hacksaw. Not a difficult hurdle, just something to be aware of.

5. Are the muzzle brakes detachable? and how hard is it? Screw on and off or retaining pins???

No, the FSB will have to have the sleeve cut off of the end, and then threaded for a flash hider or brake. An alternative would be to have an AK74 or AK100 threaded FSB installed.

6. Are all Saiga 7.62s chrome-lined?

Yes, as are the 5.45's, the .223's and the .308's to my knowledge.

 

 

From reading about installing the bullet guide and modifying mags, its seems like alil more risk than im willing to take. But it may be easier than I think. Thats why im asking. I just converted an S12 and I found it to be quite fun and significantly cheaper than to pay someone to do it. So if someone has converted an S12 and a 7.62, are they much different to convert?

 

Again, Thanks for taking the time to read and reply.

 

Greg

 

The conversion is pretty easy and can be accomplished in a weekend with simple tools, though things go much faster if you have a drill press. I was slightly intimidated until I did some reading, and I'm kicking my self for not picking up one of these when they were $200 dollar guns.

[gregomega 929]

Ok so I got it converted, bullet guide installed and test fired, no jams or anything. works great!

 

Now im working on the FSBs on both of my 7.62s. Cut the barrel shroud off and to my suprise, found threads, but had already ordered and received (2)24x1.5mm FSBs. Which is what I would have to attach anyway being I wanted a mount for the cleaning rod and bayonet.

 

Right now im in the process of sighting the FSBs in before I attach them permanently as stated in another thread. As far as removing the two FSBs, I did them each a different way.

 

The first one I cut parallel to the barrel with a dremel as stated in this tutorial http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=53873. And every so often tried hammering it off with a hammer. It took about an hour cuz I was going slow so as to not cut into the barrel which I ended up doing alil tiny tiny bit anyway. but the FSB covered it up.

 

The second one I studied pictures from http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=55476 and just drilled down into the dimples about alil more than 1/16 of an inch. I went slow so to not drill into the barrel any. And occasionally hammered it when all four holes were drilled to see if it would come off and did. took about 30min if that. Way cleaner and easier than using a dremel, but if you dont have a drill press then a dremel would be the way to go. I plan on converting alot more saigas in the future so a drill press was a necessary purchase, about $220 from harborfreight.com.

 

I took both out yesterday to sight them in and one was pretty close to being on target and the other was alil to the left. Decided to go and buy a universal bore sight at wallyworld for about $40. this evening I will be adjusting them again.