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Disappointing 1ST range trip with S12


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I finally made it to the range for a function check on my S12. I ran 5 rounds of mixed buckshot and 25 rounds of Federal bulk pack field loads from Walmart. The buckshot was three rounds of Winchester low recoil 00 buck. The other two rounds were full power Winchester buck I believe. The low recoil buck would not cycle. The full power buck shot cycles just fine. This was on gas setting one. The field loads turned the shotgun into a single shot weapon. I ran 10 rounds through it before changing gas settings. On setting 2 it was still a single shot. The rounds would fire and start the eject but got hung up. The spent hulls would fail to eject and would cause a jam. The last mag of five finally cycled twice firing and ejecting and clambering the next round. I also noticed at 10 yards it seems to shot about 2 inches to the right of POA. That was annoying to say the least.

 

The shotgun is stock except for a Tapco collapsible and pistol grip combo. I also just added a Phantom flash hider. I traded a basic AR15 and an old beat up 870 for this Saiga and I feel like I got robbed in the trade.

 

I am looking for ideas to get this thing running without spending a lot of money on it. I plan on converting it at some point but I won't if it's not reliable.

 

Ideas please............................ Thanks a lot, nice site.

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First is it new? If so Cadiz gun works for warranty work. If Not or you want to do it yourself check the gas ports. Make sure there clean and exposed and how many are there. Check that first...

Edited by Rangerguy
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To get this thing running without spending a lot of money ummmm??? THe first thing I would do is buy the Gunfixer plug. I inserted my GF and on setting 1 with birdshot it would fire and nothing. Setting 2 it would fire and the empty would hang up in the chamber. Setting 3 runs like a bitch in heat. The factory plug does not have setting 3 and that is probably the problem. Second I would run more rounds through it before I spent any other money. Check your gas ports and make sure they are line up so they proper amount of gas is being used. Dont get down over one shooting. These fucking guns take some time and work but once they run its better than poontain. Well almost.

 

For birdshot try Remington Sport Loads from Wal-Mart. Make sure the DR. EQ. is 3 or above. That is the amount of powder in each round. The more powder the more gas hence your gun should run better. $23.89 for 100

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This may sound stupid but how to get to look at the gas ports? I got this shotgun in trade and I got no Manuel or anything with it except extra mags. I field stripped the gun and the puck is moving freely with very little residue in the gas tub.

 

edited to add: I took the gas plug off and can see that it has two gas holes venting into the gas tube. I guess the shotgun has seen no more that 50 rounds if that including what I fired today. here is a pick of the trigger assembly, ect.

 

003-1.jpg

Edited by Street Judge
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I just got my S12 back from Cadiz. Mine was a single shot at first as well. Very stressful to buy a new gun to have it not run at all. Stove piped every time. I sent it two them 6 weeks ago and just got it back so the turnaround isn't quick but after taking it to the range today I feel it was worth the wait. It ate anything(low brass wally world crap) as fast as I could pull the trigger without a hiccup. It flat runs perfect now. If you can get it done via warranty I would do it.

 

To get a look at the gas ports pull the adjuster out of the front of the gas block and you can see right inside. The hole where the gas block contacts the barrel should show 3 ports. The front 2 holes in mine were barely visible. I think the gas block was covering them slightly.

 

 

 

This may sound stupid but how to get to look at the gas ports? I got this shotgun in trade and I got no manuel or anything with it except extra mags. I field stripped the gun and the puck is moving freely with very little residue in the gas tub.

[/quote

Edited by stvbird
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To actually SEE the ports, some guys have used a glass cutter & cut a strip off of a small mirror. This will just tell you if they're obstructed or not.

 

If they're unobstructed, try the method listed here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=51183

 

Now just remember, if you remove the gas block or mess with the ports, your warrenty is voided. same if you convert, so know your threshold before doing it. It's not hard, but I don't know your threshold... Are you the type of guy who calls AAA to change a tire? If so, call cadiz. If you can change an alternator, you should be able to do it easily.

Cadiz takes around a month.

 

Don't feel robbed, your experience is all too common.

Just wait till you get it running & take it out with an MD-20 with your buddy firing flawlessly. Then he'll be the bummed one.

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A small dental mirror from Harbor Freight will work to see the ports too. An angled dental pick will work to check the ports. If you don't have a pick, a bent piece of wire works.

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I will not be removing the gas block, I don't have the know how to do that. Will they warranty a gun if your not the original owner? I will check with the coworker I got it from and see if he even sent in warranty card. I did pull the gas plug and only saw two gas holes. Thanks for the input folks.

Edited by Street Judge
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I will not be removing the gas block, I don't have the know how to do that. Will they warranty a gun if your not the original owner? I will check with the coworker I got it from and see if he even sent in warranty card. I did pull the gas plug and only saw two gas holes. Thanks for the input folks.

There are no warranty cards.

 

Call Cadiz, here's their contact info page. http://www.cadizgunworks.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page2.html

 

If all else fails, here's how to remove the block if you lack a press;

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=33836

 

ETA;

If you have to pay, try forum business member Lonestar arms, they're closer to you & may have a quicker turnaround.

Edited by Paulyski
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[/quote

 

I used a paper clip and bent one end to check the ports worked like a charm!

 

I did the same thing. I could only see two gas hole but found the third by doing this. Don't know if it helped but after doing this the gun seemed to cycle better.

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I guess the shotgun has seen no more that 50 rounds if that including what I fired today.thanks, I will see about the warranty work after checking a few different loads to make sure there is a real problem.

 

 

Have you thought about breaking it in with buck or slugs instead of light loads?? Mine took about 200-250 rounds.

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I had the same problems with mine.

 

My advice? Be patient.

 

Listen, I know it's expensive but for the first 100-200 shells, run nothing but slugs and buckshot through it, the higher the fps printed on the box, the better.

 

After a couple of hundred rounds, try the cheap stuff again. You might be surprised.

 

When I first bought mine, I ran a couple of the factory 5 round mags of buck shot through it, it functioned fine so I loaded it up and took it to see my buddy. We went to the range where I loaded the weapon up with cheap Rio bird shot which effectively made the weapon a single-shot. It really pissed me off and I thought I had a "vodka special". I ran a couple hundred shells of slugs and buck through it and tried the bird shot again.

 

It functioned flawlessly, yes, it even runs the Winchester bulk-pack stuff (which is one of the worst brands to buy for an S-12).

 

What also helps is letting a bit of carbon build up on the puck so it forms a better seal. I've found that after I clean mine, I have a single-shot with the Winchester bulk loads for the first five or six shells, then it works fine after that...

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As a fairly new memember it is just plain sad that there are so many problems with the Saiga 12's. Usually AK's eat EVERYTHING that you can feed them except if your AK happens to be a Saiga 12 than it is a flip of the coin.

I would think that this problem is big enough that RAA would do a little more QA to reduce some of these problems.

 

Lets be honest with each other, you go out and purchase a brand new rifle with your hard earned sakajeweas and the thing needs a Gas Fixer Plug, polish the bolt/carrier, sent back to Cadiz for warranty work,...... RAA needs to get envolved and make certain that their rifles work out of the box.

 

I own a few other semi-auto shot guns for hunting and I shoot low brass Wallmart specials all the time.

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As a fairly new memember it is just plain sad that there are so many problems with the Saiga 12's. Usually AK's eat EVERYTHING that you can feed them except if your AK happens to be a Saiga 12 than it is a flip of the coin.

I would think that this problem is big enough that RAA would do a little more QA to reduce some of these problems.

 

Lets be honest with each other, you go out and purchase a brand new rifle with your hard earned sakajeweas and the thing needs a Gas Fixer Plug, polish the bolt/carrier, sent back to Cadiz for warranty work,...... RAA needs to get envolved and make certain that their rifles work out of the box.

 

I own a few other semi-auto shot guns for hunting and I shoot low brass Wallmart specials all the time.

Well New guy, These guns are designed to run Slugs and Buck shot only. They are not made or intended to use cheap ass birdshot. Any new Saiga will run this out of the box as intended. So if it takes a little work to get them to shoot birdshot then so be it, besides it's fun to work on guns and these are FREAKEN awesome guns.....

Edited by Rangerguy
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I also finally got a chance to run mine a couple weeks ago.

Man, was it embarrassing.

Now, after doing a little more reading, research and a phone call to Greg at Carolina shooters supply I found out that the cheap ass US munitions 2 3/4 crap loads were the problem!

I'll pick up some high brass shells and run a few hundred through it.

I did the full conversion a while back complete with all the cool "Zombie Killer" :devil::killer: parts including polishing the bolt carrier and all the internal rails and even the top of the hammer so everything would cycle smooth but it still let me down.

Greg suggested I install the weaker recoil spring and the gunfixer plug.

Now with all that done it better run like it should or I'll.............

Aw what the hell, I won't do anything!

Let's face it, these things are wicked looking and I'm proud to say I built one.

In reality, I'll just keep working it until it runs perfect. It's only money :dollar:

I only wish I would have fired it BEFORE I converted it so I could have had the warranty work done for free THEN convert it.

Dammit.

I'll pick up some shells tomorrow and let you know.

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As a fairly new memember it is just plain sad that there are so many problems with the Saiga 12's. Usually AK's eat EVERYTHING that you can feed them except if your AK happens to be a Saiga 12 than it is a flip of the coin.

I would think that this problem is big enough that RAA would do a little more QA to reduce some of these problems.

 

Lets be honest with each other, you go out and purchase a brand new rifle with your hard earned sakajeweas and the thing needs a Gas Fixer Plug, polish the bolt/carrier, sent back to Cadiz for warranty work,...... RAA needs to get envolved and make certain that their rifles work out of the box.

 

I own a few other semi-auto shot guns for hunting and I shoot low brass Wallmart specials all the time.

Well New guy, These guns are designed to run Slugs and Buck shot only. They are not made or intended to use cheap ass birdshot. Any new Saiga will run this out of the box as intended. So if it takes a little work to get them to shoot birdshot then so be it, besides it's fun to work on guns and these are FREAKEN awesome guns.....

 

Freaken awesome or not, these guns should work better out of the box. Tell kalashnikov that his guns are not supposed to eat EVERYTHING, isn't that what the gas plug adjustment is for?

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