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Drum mags for Saiga 12....


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So what's new?

Same shit, same people different forum.

Well... The same except for one of the posters hasn't been told to screw himself yet.

 

BTW... You hear about the first report of the ProMag drum's spring snapping yet?

 

Just wanted to tell my story about the Pro Mag 20rd drum. Bought 2 of them, one worked great from the get go. The second one however

came all undone as I was loading in the fifth round. It sounded like the spring broke and unwound very quickly. I called Pro Mag the

next day. The person I talked with said send it in with your contact info.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=55844

Edited by Paulyski
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Link

 

Click the link to find out....

I did'nt post on that other forum, but I will tell everyone here what my expirience is with drums.

I had an MD 20, it worked great. I sold it and got most my money back(at the time they cost $225)

Recently I bought 2 Promag 20's. One ran great out of the gate, the other however broke when I

tried to load the fifth round into it. I called Promag and told them the problem, sent the drum

back and had a new one within 7 days. Both Promag drums run like champion sprinters. I like the

slightly smaller size of the Promag and the smoother edges. Only time will tell as to durability

but reliability is good so far. I'm happy with the Promag drums. But like many of you Saiga freaks

I can't wait for a doublestack to be available.

I do know a little about drums I'm an internationally known drummer, OOPS, that's another type of drums!!

Edited by double
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I just got my Promag 20rd in yesterday. We put 100 shells through it this morning between my 2 friends and I (we used Winchester Universals, the cheap Walmart 8 shot ones). Only jammed once out of 100 shots. The only thing I wish it had was a tinted cover. Other than that, I am very happy with it.

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So what's new?

Same shit, same people different forum.

Well... The same except for one of the posters hasn't been told to screw himself yet.

(ETA: To clarify, I'm not saying anyone necessarily SHOULD be told to screw themselves.)

 

BTW... You hear about the first report of the ProMag drum's spring snapping yet?

 

Just wanted to tell my story about the Pro Mag 20rd drum. Bought 2 of them, one worked great from the get go. The second one however

came all undone as I was loading in the fifth round. It sounded like the spring broke and unwound very quickly. I called Pro Mag the

next day. The person I talked with said send it in with your contact info.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=55844

 

I remember hearing that about the Promag, but I didn't want to say anything about it because I couldn't confirm if it was indeed factual. I thought it may come out someone else would tell it.

 

 

Nice to see a poll that states blind opinion counts too:haha: Only on ARF.....I hope.

 

I just wanted to see what things might influence one's opinion about a product without first hand experience with it. Such as.... company reputation, prices, cosmetics, user reports, material preference, etc. That is why I asked ".... and why?" . I didn't think there was anything wrong with it. I just didn't feel the need to go that in-depth with why I asked it. Sorry, it was fairly vague the way it was stated.

 

Some people will buy the most expensive product and think that is an indicator or quality or reliability. Stuff like that.

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:rolleyes:Geez evlblkwpnz, as I pull my foot out of my mouth-sorry bro, didn't mean to be insulting, I actually just clicked on the link and didn't bother to read who posted it . You have to admit, it is a bit of a odd approach. If I based my opinion on my 9mm Promag AR mags it would be much different than my S12 experience (although even they took a bit of work, but they run fine for now). The only drum I ever used was Mike's and it work's fine. I guess over all I've never met a pie I didn't like, probably should have left it at that.
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:rolleyes:Geez evlblkwpnz, as I pull my foot out of my mouth-sorry bro, didn't mean to be insulting, I actually just clicked on the link and didn't bother to read who posted it . You have to admit, it is a bit of a odd approach. If I based my opinion on my 9mm Promag AR mags it would be much different than my S12 experience (although even they took a bit of work, but they run fine for now). The only drum I ever used was Mike's and it work's fine. I guess over all I've never met a pie I didn't like, probably should have left it at that.

 

Sometimes I ask questions or make statements that are rather vague and I just like to keep the 'results' of those questions or statements more 'open' and not guided in any particular direction. Kinda like laying a $20 bill on your coffee table while your child has a new friend over. You don't say "I'm leaving this $20 here to see if you will steal it". You just lay it out there and see what happens. Little crumb snatchers.... :Johnboy::stan::kyle::kenny:

 

I find the reasons behind people's choices very interesting. One guy may buy it because it's the most expensive, another may get the cheap one, another may buy just because it looks cool, and then.... like most of us here, someone else may buy based on exstensive research and reviews. I just started another company in the same industry I am already in, and it will be based on selling people things that may cost as much as a common home.... sometimes more. I am business minded and like to get into the minds of consumers in general. I have found that many very different things appeal to people for the same reasons. I'm trying to find.... the universal recipe.

 

6500,

Absolutely no offense taken. I can certainly understand what it may have appeared to be. I was trying to pick brains and being sneaky.... how were you supposed to know?..... :ph34r:

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I just got my Promag 20rd in yesterday. We put 100 shells through it this morning between my 2 friends and I (we used Winchester Universals, the cheap Walmart 8 shot ones). Only jammed once out of 100 shots. The only thing I wish it had was a tinted cover. Other than that, I am very happy with it.

 

I wouldn't be very happy with the 1% failure rate if that is what you are getting consistently, especially since the MD drums run much much better than that for me.

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Dogman,

 

He was using Winchester bulk, so unless we know the type of malfunction, it's kinda hard to jump to conclusions and blame promag. It could have been due to using the significantly underpowered Winchester bulk pack for all we know.

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Dogman,

 

He was using Winchester bulk, so unless we know the type of malfunction, it's kinda hard to jump to conclusions and blame promag. It could have been due to using the significantly underpowered Winchester bulk pack for all we know.

 

I wasn't jumping to any conclusions, I apparently misinterpreted what he said. It looked like he was saying the drum itself had jammed.

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I have had no problems at all with my Promag drum and I have let anyone who was interested come over and try it any time. In fact everyone who has tried it has been very impressed. I sure as hell won't let one or two people's accounts of failures influence my decision to buy more, especially when they are selling for much less than the "competition". If anything that one broken spring story should tell all these worry warts out there how much the company has improved with their very timely response to a warranty issue with a full and timely replacement. I wonder if any of the other companies competing would have been anywhere near as fast with a replacement?

 

 

 

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I have had no problems at all with my Promag drum and I have let anyone who was interested come over and try it any time. In fact everyone who has tried it has been very impressed. I sure as hell won't let one or two people's accounts of failures influence my decision to buy more, especially when they are selling for much less than the "competition". If anything that one broken spring story should tell all these worry warts out there how much the company has improved with their very timely response to a warranty issue with a full and timely replacement. I wonder if any of the other companies competing would have been anywhere near as fast with a replacement?

I can't believe you took your sob story over there. Dude... Suck it up and grow a set, quit being such a damn crybaby woe is me... Anyways...

 

As far as the broke spring story... If the spring really broke it would not be a one time occurrence. Unless they heat treated their springs one at a time... It would be a whole damn batch of springs, likely in the many, many 1000's. But I'm not sure it broke. Did anyone take it apart? I am betting it came loose and unwound (weather it broke or unwound neither has happened with the MD-20). I don't think this is isolated either. While at Will's birthday bash Mississippi Auto Arms said they had I think it was 2 come back with low to no spring tension. He also said he had someone drop one and break it. And that he had some with the teeth breaking off the gears and also complaining that the load assist was hard to use, lol... Not sure on full details Also while there Lone Star Arms had a 20rd Promag and the bottom right cover clip was cracking from one side up through the cover and back down to the other side of the clip. They said it had not been dropped and only fired, ask Mike... Not a single one of these things has ever happened with an MD-20. And I promise you we have shipped THOUSANDS more MD-20s, and with way more use on them, than Promag has shipped theirs... We have been shipping since 09-2008. Promag's have been shipping since around late February, around 5 months. And only 4 months at the time I heard and saw the above.

 

The only time we have ever had an MD-20 returned for replacement was because the owner removed to much material while fitting. Around 30 drums total out of over 1xxxx drums shipped. But we actually just sonic weld some material back to be refitted. Only on 2 occasions did we have to replace due a super severe misfitting causing a complete bust through of the rear mag catch. These are customer mistakes but we still have always helped out. (Does that sound good Cobra?) And since the promags have to be fitted as well trust they will be misfitted by people... I wonder how they will handle customer mistakes? Now lets assume the issue of the Promag spring is that they are actually breaking like the over hardened AGP mag springs that went out awhile back... We had some feedlips on the second run of MD-20 drums that was over hardened. We shipped around 500 drums (a couple days worth of shipping) from the second run before finding out. They could easily break. We immediately stopped shipping. And annealed (softened), reheat treated, and re black oxided the feedlips. Took about a week. We shipped replacement feedlips, at great cost to MD Arms, to ALL that received the over hardened ones. NO ONE had to contact us for replacement, we contacted them. From what I heard on the AGPs is they only took care of the people that contacted them. And if that's true then I'm sure most of those hard springs are still in circulation... (Again, does that sound good Cobra?)

 

(Cobra doesn't want to base the spring problem on one or two occurrences but he is all about basing one good warranty service as a complete turn around for the company... Even though they have had years and years of bad stories on many, many products including their saiga-12 10rd sticks, circulating all over the internet and every gunshow... That is just dumb. Like I said... Cobra has a chip on his shoulder for me and doesn't have one problem misleading all you to the inferior product to satisfy his own agenda.)

 

I have very little range time with a promag drum, 80rds of high brass. I wanted to see if it had the same tendencies from some guns to out cycle high brass. It did and was much worse in those guns... And the new gas plug didn't 100% solve it. For one the spring tension in the Promag is not as much as the MD-20, both at the same wraps. Also their gear is super heavy and also has more surface area contacting. They also lock up with a lot of slop in most guns I have tried. The material is not as stiff as ours (this is likely while Lone Star's cover broke, while firing the mag is flexing too much). And if people are dropping and breaking the promags they are no where near as tough and strong as ours. You can throw ours 15 to 20 feet in the air to land on asphalt without it breaking, WHILE LOADED!!! On FIRST impressions I thought the Promag drum seemed to be better plastic than their other items. But stiff can mean brittle... I am not sure what Promag is using as a stiffener but if people are dropping them and breaking them it isn't what we are using. I would have to guess they may be using talc powder as a stiffener (super cheap and not good for this application). I think it's about time for me to do some real world drop testing of the Promag drum to see what the story is. You can drop the loaded MD-20 on concrete over and over and over hitting the same place on the drum. I finally stopped well over 30 times loaded and it was fine and completely functional! Once I destroy a few promags I can do some tests on the material scarps to better see what it is.

 

What I can say even without torture testing, use and longevity testing, and material testing of the promag drums is that the MD-20 is WAY better. The MD-20 have a much better fit in the gun, the MD-20 components lock together better and tighter, the MD-20 has better stiffness, the MD-20 has stronger spring tension, the MD-20 is 6 ounces lighter, the MD-20 has less friction and runs smoother, the MD-20 has they same lifetime warranty (even though you likely won't need ours), the MD-20 has a 30 day money back guarantee (Promag doesn't that I'm aware of), the MD-20 uses thicker, heat treat, black oxided, spring steel (expensive, quality steel) inserts (the Promag has thinner, un-heat treated, un-black oxided cold roll steel inserts which is soft and cheap steel), our company has a much better reliability, longevity history and truer quality commitment to our products and customers. MD Arms was dedicated to the saiga-12 platform and designed the MD-20 out of love and compassion for that platform! I could go on, but that should be enough for now...

 

I also want to say that you all might want to wait on buying any promag drums and maybe even any MD-20s for about the next 2 to 4 weeks. All I'm going to say is things are about to change again for the better of the saiga-12 market and it's customers.

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I also want to say that you all might want to wait on buying any promag drums and maybe even any MD-20s for about the next 2 to 4 weeks. All I'm going to say is things are about to change again for the better of the saiga-12 market and it's customers.

Double stack mags!? :eek:

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I don't have an account on the other board. Can someone that does copy my above post over to the linked thread. It might be good to put a link to this thread in that thread as well.

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I'm not a member on "BARFCOM". Otherwise I would throw your post up there Mike. More tinfoil hats on there than a Reynolds Wrap factory!

 

I'm mostly an AR guy, but Saigas are second to them for me. That site has more valuable info and a pool for for firearms know_how than any other site I visit.

 

It depends on what forums you post on.

 

I constantly refer people to this forum for Saiga info.

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I also want to say that you all might want to wait on buying any promag drums and maybe even any MD-20s for about the next 2 to 4 weeks. All I'm going to say is things are about to change again for the better of the saiga-12 market and it's customers.

Double stack mags!? :eek:

 

NEVER!!!! anything but Doublestacks. I certainly wouldn't dare get in on a Doublestack preorder :angel:

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Oh brother....not this asswipe who thinks he knows all about me and how my business section is setup again....editing out my post because I have upset the great paulyski by talking about his hero and failing to kiss his ass.

 

Nevermind mike, if I can't speak to you in person then there's no sense in even trying to say anything online because your little minions are too many here...forget it...:rolleyes:

 

I'll just keep it simple.....you are the one doing all the crying around here. You should spend more time actually working on your products and less time bashing everyone else's.

 

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mike, sure... that's my whole mission in life, to steer all the people on Saiga 12, and all over the world, down a dark dead end road...just so they can so they can suffer with an inferior mag to your wonderful magnanimous masterpiece.

Well, at least he admits it. ^_^

 

Hey man while you have all that extra time on your hands, take some grammar lessons will ya? Been meaning to tell ya this for awhile but couldn't get you to answer your phone. Psssst....It's not "the whole time we was breaking mags with hammers....", it's the whole time we "were" breaking mags with hammers... try to work on that, you do it all the time...it's annoying.

 

Good day sir.

I think he should stay how he is.

It shows that one can make it on merit without having to spend all their time learning how to smooth talk smoke up people's asses.

 

Shit, You can't call him dumb.

He built a rather profitable company by filling his niche & conducts business in an honorable fashion... I bet he even pays his business membership dues on time unlike yourself.

And he possessed enough foresight to avoid going into business with you. :up:

 

And, that IS what your whole grudge is about, right?

 

 

ETA:

While you're playing armchair secretary, you may want to think about capitalizing the first letter in people's names when typing. ;)

Edited by Paulyski
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You are so full of shit in everything you just said and the regulars know it as well as anyone that wants to search the true history here. In fact you are so short of stories to tell you are fabricating and exaderating and insulting on grammer. Yes, my grammer has always sucked... That will never change. But it never stopped your tax evading, product stealing ass from understanding me has it. My math is great though... Maybe you should learning your numbers and start paying your taxes like the rest of us. Cobra told me he has never had a tax paying job in his life! The math might help you finish Lonestar's ( I think it was?) LRBHO too.

 

I never pissed and moaned on SGM stick, just said the feedlips worried me. Left it at that. Once I got some in person the first thing I did was go back and say my worries were over for them and that I thought they was super nice. But that I still worried about about the lack of metal in the front mag catch... And when they started bracking SGM called me for improved design in the area and I delivered it to them free of charge. And like I said before, they are my competion are they not. And that I helped them because I felt they had the customers best interest in heart and wasn't out to take their money in exchange for junk like some others are. As far as AGP and the hard springs... It is fact, is it not? All I did was state the fact. I didn't make the fact true... I have actually seen you take it to a personal level of public attack with AGP critising them about how they did their stocking dealers. Your a biased, too faced, self motivated jerk off. And have been every since I came here!

 

As far as your buddy KrisFox... Not hardly the real story your telling. You and your buddy can kiss the tip. If anyone wants to see my conclusion to KrisFox just read the new gas plug thread in my section. Him being in the military is a respectable thing... But it is by no means a get out of jail free card when it comes to being a complete troll. While he was in Iraq I was equipting the citizens of this country with the means to protect themselves right here at home and without dependency. Equally as patriotic if you ask me. While YOU was living tax free and begging every new vendor for free test parts that came through here, lol!!!

 

So instead of making yourself looking like the jerk off, why do you follow through with that LRBHO that LoneStar gave you. How many years has that been coming, almost 4 now? If your having troubles with the design maybe you can contact that kid and let him complete his own design...

 

Now... Let this thread get back on topic so you can watch US crush the competion with facts and true quality commitment. A lot of good info here and I'm tied of these threads getting deleted. Mods, if this thread reaches a point where you want to delete it please just move it to my section. I am saving a copy of it anyways just in case. I am sure Cobra is going to come back, especially now that he has some explaining (lying) to do on his own character. It will be interesting to see you explain those away but I'd really rather not hear it. I know I've heard enough crying from you. Cobra, if your going to be crooked in life, maybe you shouldn't make enemies of and attack those you tell your dirt to. Better yet, live an honest life and you won't have to worry about it at all. You might be surprised how well that idea works and with half the effort, lol.

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Oh brother....not this asswipe who thinks he knows all about me and how my business section is setup again....editing out my post because I have upset the great paulyski by talking about his hero and failing to kiss his ass.

 

Nevermind mike, if I can't speak to you in person then there's no sense in even trying to say anything online because your little minions are too many here...forget it...:rolleyes:

 

I'll just keep it simple.....you are the one doing all the crying around here. You should spend more time actually working on your products and less time bashing everyone else's.

You are such a coward. I knew I should have quoted your comments in my response to you. No you went and edited and rewrote... Well, I'm not deleting mine to you. I'm tired of all the history getting deleted around here...

 

Thanks Paulyski for getting my back. Thankfully most regulars here can see through the snakeshit.

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Bla bla bla....fuck you asshole. You got something to say to me, you have my phone number. Use it. You and your little fan there can both kiss my ass. I love how you both get off on taking private conversations and then running around like little girls spreading shit where ever you want like it's all a fun game. You both suck. That's the real reason I have a "grudge" against you.

 

You can stick lonestar's LRBHO up your ass too. The reason I didn't go ahead with that first design I improved on was because it wouldn't work with anything but factory mags, and you even know that. The design I've been working on (or not working on) for the past year is different than that. If you spent any time actually reading about it you would have known that too. So run along now...and go play with your little boyfriend there spreading lies and rumors around the forum. Or go break some mags so you can prove to everyone how great your precious drums are.

 

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This thread started SOOOO NIce.... :killer:

 

Here we go AGAIN...

 

So your drums are better than the others. And the price point is about the same. Great.

 

Why are we arguing again guys?? Can't you all just call each other and cuss each other out..??

 

Certain drums fail and they get replaced. Yours don't fail.. ok.. and your pro-active when something comes up.. great.

 

Most people whom bought the ProMags couldn't WAIT for yours though.. And since they use them mostly for FUN and not DEFENSE then its a null point IMHO..

 

You both have NICHE's for us folks on here.. IMHO.

 

Just wish you all would stop arguing.

 

 

Albert

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You see, when talking with Cobra, one must be quick & quote his posts before he deletes them like below.

He knows he's full of crap, so he only lets it linger long enough till he knows you saw it, then "poof" he uses the last remaining mod-edit abilities he has to make it disappear without having that edit notification give him away.

 

Bla bla bla....fuck you asshole. You got something to say to me, you have my phone number. Use it. You and your little fan there can both kiss my ass. I love how you both get off on taking private conversations and then running around like little girls spreading shit where ever you want like it's all a fun game. You both suck. That's the real reason I have a "grudge" against you.

 

You can stick lonestar's LRBHO up your ass too. The reason I didn't go ahead with that first design I improved on was because it wouldn't work with anything but factory mags, and you even know that. The design I've been working on (or not working on) for the past year is different than that. If you spent any time actually reading about it you would have known that too. So run along now...and go play with your little boyfriend there spreading lies and rumors around the forum. Or go break some mags so you can prove to everyone how great your precious drums are.

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