IDPA 3 Gun Saigas are out

[frankd4 1]

[tsawy93 19]

I guess the Brady Campaign runs IDPA...There are too many rules in IDPA for my taste. They claim it's real life... I say I will do whatever it takes in real life...NO rules!! Win or die.

[vbrtrmn 167]

Wait .. a shotgun which anyone can buy offers an unfair advantage ... um ... am I missing the logic?

[tsawy93 19]

I am sure that they don't want it to turn into everyone having to spend $3000 on a racegun just to be competitive. They are thoughtful (to the little guy) like that...I am sure that is part of what they are thinking.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Fudds....

[SaigaNoobie 66]

Can you link me the rule about the Shotguns plz? I'm not a member of IDPA and don't know where to look. thanks!

[tsawy93 19]

http://www.idpa.com/rules_updates.asp

Specifically Appendix 1 Page 13

"2. Non-IDPA-Legal Modifications for Shotguns

The following modifications are NOT ALLOWED on any shotgun.

A. No Bi-pods

B. No Laser aiming devices.

C. No compensators.

D. No speedloaders or detachable box magazines"

[SaigaNoobie 66]

PSH. I'd fucking show up with a 5rd Saiga mag pinned in place, load it through the top, load a round in the chamber, push down the top round, close the bolt (5+1) and then hand-feed any more and then tell them to go fuck themselves.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Correct me if i am wrong here but a detachable box magazine on a Saiga is NOT a modification, it is factory!

 

Loop hole?

[tsawy93 19]

Correct me if i am wrong here but a detachable box magazine on a Saiga is NOT a modification, it is factory!

 

Loop hole?

YOU have a GOOD eye for detail...I TOTALLY missed that...I'm sure they will correct that quickly.

[Slug-O 6]

Correct me if i am wrong here but a detachable box magazine on a Saiga is NOT a modification, it is factory!

 

Loop hole?

YOU have a GOOD eye for detail...I TOTALLY missed that...I'm sure they will correct that quickly.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

If the governing body was fair, they would allow Saigas until the rule was rewritten too correctly ban all box fed shotty's. Atleast thats how it works in racing bend'em til they break

[Slug-O 6]

Sorry posting from my phone... Stupid rule if I say so myself...

[L5K 162]

Someone should show up with a musket and complain that rifling and breechloading is an unfair advantage.

[frankd4 1]

http://www.idpa.com/Documents/IDPA_DMG_rules_07062010.pdf This is the link for the bong holes.

[frankd4 1]

I have just temp mounted a fixed 10 round mag it's not detachable and I will load it from the top, great idea thanks guys i ewill use it the 5th tuesday of Aug. match at Markham park in FT.Lauderdale, FL. I will not give up my Saiga I have three and love them it's the best shotgun in the world

[SaigaNoobie 66]

Frank, Fuck yes. I want to come watch.

[stiletto raggio 20]

Whatever. They are too late to the fight. Three gun matches have been going on for well over a decade and a lot of them already have their own rules in place. It is bad enough that USPSA forces them into Open Class, but to ban them outright is ridiculous.

 

If Single Action Shooters Society wants to band auto pistols and DA revovlers, taht is fine; the point of their organization is old school thumb-busting, not practical shooting. But the IDPA is supposed to be about defensive shooting, and not allowing people to use the only ground-up combat shotgun on the open market is absurd. there ought to be a rule against sporting shotguns instead.

Edited July 13, 2010 by stiletto raggio

[ironhead7544 35]

All they had to do is make another class. Theres no such thing as an unfair advantage in a gunfight.

[kmoore 3]

I argued for the Saiga about a year ago when they first considered 3 gun rules ... but knew that it was an uphill battle. The problem is that they don't think there are enough competitors who own them, or who would shoot with them to justify creating another class. I do believe that when the Saiga becomes more mainstream that the rule will change to allow them. I don't believe they'll ever have them go head to head with other auto's because of the perceived advantages. IDPA gears itself to beginning and practical shooters, and is less about gamesmanship and tries to avoid the perception that you'd have to spend a lot of coin to be competitive.

 

Given the limited round counts, and the low starting load (shotgun can only have 5+1 at any start).... I don't think the mags give that much of an advantage. One that MD's can easily minimize or even make much more difficult.

 

They have other rules that I find VERY practical (and anti gamey). You have to start the shotgun with a single type of shell.... in other words if the stage requires bird, bird, slug, buck bird ... you can't load your shells that way ... (to fit the stage description). First time I've seen that requirement, but it makes sense to me .. and gives an DEFINITE advantage to belly loaders ..

 

But yea, sucks to be specifically cut out of the game. The more often IDPA hears of competitors who ONLY owned a Saiga, the more likely they'll be to change.

Edited July 14, 2010 by kmoore

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know the rules, but isn't this the same "practical" shooting competition that considers these A-ok in pistol class?

 

 

Very practical and I'm sure plenty of people bring those around as a daily carry

Edited July 14, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[tsawy93 19]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know the rules, but isn't this the same "practical" shooting competition that considers these A-ok in pistol class?

 

 

Very practical and I'm sure plenty of people bring those around as a daily carry

Not sure if you are kidding?!? There is NOTHING on that gun legal for IDPA. That is a race gun used in IPSC/USPSA.

[Gibbles 23]

[Doug Hartley 526]

I've shot lots of big 3 gun matchs West of the Mississipi and a least one East of it and I don't think the rules for IDPA 3 Gun will sit well with the regular 3 gun crowd. Outlaw 3 Gun with the least rules possible seems to be the most popular form of the game. Even USPSA, which is popular with pistol shooters, does not have the 3 gun following that Outlaw matches have. I can see this as a way for IDPA clubs to bring in shotgun and rifle for their members but thats about it.

 

To exclude any type of shotgun, instead of making a class for it, is just foolish. I'm not giving up my Saiga, so I guess I will be excluding IDPA from my 3 gun schedule.

 

Doug

[tsawy93 19]

IDPA seems to think like the government...the more rules, the better.

I prefer 'few' rules...run and gun! Some of the rules just plain take the fun away. Especially, when you have over zealous nit pickers in your group.

[tsawy93 19]

Like someone yelling "COVER,COVER,COVER!!"

EXACTLY what I mean. That is a judgement call to me...I think I use cover appropriately and above all, safely. Some of those guys seem to want just the gun around the corner...It's hard to have fun with someone hollering "COVER" when you feel you are using cover properly.

[Zambidis 90]

[stiletto raggio 20]

Gabe Suarez is currently advocating (and, I think, rightly) the more widespread use of compact optics on pistols. Does this mean that a Glock 23 with a Docter sight is an open-class race gun? According to some rules, yes, but it is obviously a very practical fighting gun.

 

The rule makers are legitimizing anachronistic technology by preventing innovation. Boo.

[patriot 7,197]

Write 'em and bitch bitch bitch. If you let them screw you over for using a commercially available gun and don't bitch about it, you get what you deserve! The squeaky wheel gets the grease! A big petition would help too!

[oldandslow 3]

IDPA = Bill Wilson.

 

Bill Wilson, for those who don't know, manufactures 1911 pistols.

Wilson's company also builds and sells "tube fed" shotguns.

 

Duh!