New Owner

[The Bull 2]

I am new the the Saiga guns. I recently received a 20g as well as a .223 and 7.62x39. I just have a few questions about the 20g. The gun says it is a 76mm which is 3 inch. I have a 3 inch clip and one for a 70m. Will both clips work in the gun? also it has a long barrel where can i find a shorter one?

[towerofpower93 22]

There isn't really any way to get a shorter barrel unless you cut the one you have. The mags are for different length shells, bit a member here, Cobra762, makes a wedge so you can use the 70mm shells in the 76mm mags.

[The Bull 2]

Ok thank you for the help towerofpower93.

[kmoore 3]

yup, both mags will work in your gun.

 

As for the bbl, realize that should you decide to cut it back, the majority of the choke is in the last part of the bbl.

 

A friend of mine did this on his 12ga, chopped it back to ~18 inches and cut every bit of choke out. We competed together, and he'd shoot at steel knock down targets in vain. He'd hit the target and spray a 3 ft pattern on the berm behind those targets ... the steel would quiver and then settle back in.

 

I cut my bbl too, because the choke was VERY tight. But I did it carefully, hacking .5 inch at a time and miking the results.. when I got it where I thought it belonged, I stopped and range tested it and it was perfect. Shot it that way for a year or so, ultimately had it threaded to accept remington chokes. Also, removing bbl length may hurt reliability as it lessons the gas available for cycling ... a little likely won't hurt a thing (mine didn't) but my friend ended up having to open his ports after he cut so much bbl off.

 

YMMV, a professional that will stand behind his work is advisable

[The Bull 2]

Ok kmore well i don't think i will shorten the barrel then. I have been reading 922R and am seeing that i cant have over 10 imported parts in the gun, and the S20 with a threaded barrel is 14 Correct? If so i would need to remove 4. I do want to do a collapsible stock and pistol grip. To be compliant could i change out the forearm, magbody, mag follower, mag florplate?

[kmoore 3]

Be careful about accepting advise from internet forums, double check what folks tell you. Especially me

 

There is a whole section on 922r compliance in the 12ga section of this site.

 

The threaded bbl thing ... personally, I don't hold chokes to be a part from the list. I believe the muzzle devices intended to cover the flash suppressors and muzzle brakes and those bbl extensions. Haven't heard of that being tested tho and if you want to be extra careful, well it beats time at "club fed".

 

You seem to err on the side of caution, so I'd say the mag parts can be used too, but I'd be careful there if you are adding a pistol grip.

Here's why. Couple of things that make a shotgun unsporting (not my definition, the govt's) is a pistol grip or large (>5 round) mag capacity.

So, if you add a pistol grip it's unsporting. Now, if you have foreign mags in your possession, they could try to say you have an unsporting shotgun using that "constructive intent" BS they have used for other firearm violations. So, you couldn't use your factory 5's (or the Taiwanese knock offs) ... nor could you own them ... and what if someone else brings some by? Using mags for compliance is my least favorite method (tho it's certainly an effortless, inexpensive "conversion").

 

As always, YMMV. There's a ton of options (butt-stock, PG, for-end, gas piston, and off course the FCG). I'm still unaware of anyone getting charged with 922r violations by itself ... seems like an add on charge for other crimes? Doubt agents will do spot inspections on these ... it would involve disassembly and theoretically they'd have to prove that more than 10 parts are foreign made ...

[The Bull 2]

Kmore, ok thanks for the input. I have read through the 922r completely and i am starting to understand it. Lets say i change out the stock and put on the pistol grip and change the gas piston , trigger group, and forearm I count this as +4 usa parts is this correct?

Edited July 14, 2010 by RamPage

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Now you're talking. Changing out the trigger group should be your first step. Not only will that give you a big head start on 922 compliance, but it gives you a MUCH better, smoother trigger, changes the balance point of the gun when you put your PG behind there, where it belongs, instead of a few inches further back where those abominable stock / PG combos will put it....and turns the gun back into what it was intended to be before it was neutered so it could be imported here in the US. Once you have the US made FCG in there just add a US made PG and stock and you are there. If you want to be extra sure nobody gives you any crap about the threaded muzzle, throw a US made piston (or "puck") in there too. Kmoore is correct, don't rely on mags or mag parts for compliance and you can use any mag you want in there, or have them stored with the gun, and nobody can say anything. Also at least for right now, there is a very limited supply of domestic mags being sold for the S-20. There are two other companies who now have some in production but are currently still in the beta testing stage. I have one of these so far, and they are getting pretty close to being ready to move forward with production.

[The Bull 2]

Thanks for the info cobra. Im just not sure if i want to be drilling in to 3 perfect guns to move the trigger. i would rather have some one else do that for me. I also have a .223 and 7.62 that i want to do it to as well.

[Modiano 5]

Thanks for the info cobra. Im just not sure if i want to be drilling in to 3 perfect guns to move the trigger. i would rather have some one else do that for me. I also have a .223 and 7.62 that i want to do it to as well.

it's pretty easy for a novice with a good drill and a dremel to drill out the rivets and replace the trigger parts. search on youtube and you'll find a step by step series.

 

now, if you've got money to throw around, by all means, pay a knowledgeable local saiga owner to do the work for you. you can even pay a pro gunsmith that handles saigas, but i hear the back log is ridiculous. either route, you're voiding your warranty. be sure you break the gun in so you know it works as-is. a polished turd is still a turd.

[The Bull 2]

Ya i have seen a few how to's on it and am tryin to decide on weather to do it. I am willing to have an another local saiga owner to do it or even show me. I know all the guns work they where some of my uncles deer guns But i appreciate all the input yall are givin keep it comin!

[towerofpower93 22]

Do it yourself! I've done a 12 and a 20 with only a ryobi 12v drill, a dremel, and some basic hand tools on my kitchen sink and In the bathtub (makes the metal shavings easier to clean up:) in my apartment.

 

Doing the conversion yourself is quick and easy if you use the instructions on this site and the video on Carolina shooters supply website. It really opened my eyes as to how easy the AK system is to homebrew gunsmith.

[The Bull 2]

Ya i think i have decided to do it myself a buddy of mine said he would he would help out.. I finally have all the parts picked out that i want to use just now have to buy them

[garandman 11]

 

 

[The Bull 2]

Those guns look good garandman , that is the same stock i have picked out to use

[garandman 11]

Those guns look good garandman , that is the same stock i have picked out to use

 

 

I really like the Ace stock - comfortable to shoot, light weight, good looking.

 

Be sure to post pics when you are done with your conversion. I encourage you to do it - its not hard, and is very satisfying.

Edited July 21, 2010 by garandman

[The Bull 2]

Ya I have decided to do do it myself. A friend of mine is comin back into town form texas and wants to help out so we will give it a shot. Its never to had to have a extra set of eyes and hands

[kmoore 3]

Kmore, ok thanks for the input. I have read through the 922r completely and i am starting to understand it. Lets say i change out the stock and put on the pistol grip and change the gas piston , trigger group, and forearm I count this as +4 usa parts is this correct?

 

Sorry, just getting back to this thread. I think you are heading in a good place. Here's the advice I would have given you .... don't count on what you changed or not, just count the number of foriegn parts you have in/with your gun.

 

I've put an x by the foreign parts as I understand you are doing the conversion, but you should confirm I've got your plans right. I've put U by the parts I'm assuming you are from the US...

 

x(1) Receiver

x(2) Barrels

(3) Barrel extensions

(4) Mounting blocks, trunnion (rifles only, this was the "nice surprise" in the ATF's letter documenting it's findings)

?(5) Muzzle attachments (chokes, brakes, threading ... some folks think these are attachments, I don't).

x(6) Bolts

x(7) Bolt carriers

(8) Operating rods

U(9) Gas pistons

(10) Trigger housings

U(11) Triggers

U(12) Hammers

(13) Sears

U(14) Disconnectors

U(15) Buttstock

U(16) Pistol grips

U(17) Forearms, handguards

x(18) Magazine bodies

x(19) Followers

x(20) Floorplates

 

So, you'll have a shotgun with 14 parts (plus one if you have a muzzle attachment)... this is 14 as you added the pistol grip.

 

But the only number you need to worry about is that you will have a shotgun with 7 foreign parts (8 if you have a muzzle attachment) ... this is WELL under the 10 round max!

 

Sorry to kick the dead horse, but I always like to start with the list of 20 possible parts, and count up how many foreign parts are in the firearm in question....

[The Bull 2]

You can beat the dead horse its better to be safe than sorry.

 

I am doing

U(9) Gas pistons

U(11) Triggers

U(12) Hammers

U(11) Triggers

U(12) Hammers