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Quad Stack Magazine over at ar15.com

bigsal

By bigsal,
in Saiga 7.62 X 39

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MikeD

MikeD 541

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I really hate to say it, and even more so if it might crush someones dreams and hard work because I know what goes into something like this, but if all they have is a conceptual prototype then they are WAY behind in this project. And they said first on the agenda they are focusing on texture??? That should come very last and be the very least of their concerns. Texture is nothing... Function is everything... They said they needed to work on form and function... Function should be their number one concern because like I said... They are way behind if that is the case.

 

We was trying to sit on this quietly because we really don't need all the inquires right now. But plans change when things like this surface. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't blow up our email over this announcement. I will be saying ALL I WISH TO SAY right now and will not be releasing any further details at this time. We are pursuing patent protection for these. And yes they will have steel inserts in all the right places, including the feedlips... And they will be available in both 7.62 and 5.45. They same care in design and quality in construction and materials will be in these just the same as our MD-20. I will get a video put together with yours truly firing full auto so you know it is for real. And honestly the quads will very likely be ready for release before our double stack shotgun mag... So I'm making it an official announcement... MD Arms is making quad stack AK mags!!!!! :super::super::super:

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tsawy93

tsawy93 19

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Over on Accurate Shooter.com they have the patent application from Magpul.

It shows picures of the internals of their "Quad". I guess they use two springs and a partition between two double stacks of ammo...Well, don't listen to my discription, it is magic to me. I will be happy with a double stack for my S12... Here is link to the article... http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/06/magpul-invents-new-quad-stack-magazine-for-ars/

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MikeD

MikeD 541

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Over on Accurate Shooter.com they have the patent application from Magpul.

It shows picures of the internals of their "Quad". I guess they use two springs and a partition between two double stacks of ammo...Well, don't listen to my discription, it is magic to me. I will be happy with a double stack for my S12... Here is link to the article... http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/06/magpul-invents-new-quad-stack-magazine-for-ars/

I might be wrong but I think the patent as already been issued.

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tsawy93

tsawy93 19

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That will be some awesome firepower for my 5.45... Just say the word and I am there...(PREORDER?). I can wait for now. I have enough toys to play with at the moment. Thanks for the tease, I look forward to the "Quad"!

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MikeD

MikeD 541

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I really hate to say it, and even more so if it might crush someones dreams and hard work because I know what goes into something like this, but if all they have is a conceptual prototype then they are WAY behind in this project. And they said first on the agenda they are focusing on texture??? That should come very last and be the very least of their concerns. Texture is nothing... Function is everything... They said they needed to work on form and function... Function should be their number one concern because like I said... They are way behind if that is the case.

 

We was trying to sit on this quietly because we really don't need all the inquires right now. But plans change when things like this surface. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't blow up our email over this announcement. I will be saying ALL I WISH TO SAY right now and will not be releasing any further details at this time. We are pursuing patent protection for these. And yes they will have steel inserts in all the right places, including the feedlips... And they will be available in both 7.62 and 5.45. They same care in design and quality in construction and materials will be in these just the same as our MD-20. I will get a video put together with yours truly firing full auto so you know it is for real. And honestly the quads will very likely be ready for release before our double stack shotgun mag... So I'm making it an official announcement... MD Arms is making quad stack AK mags!!!!! :super::super::super:

Also, If someone breaks this news to the guy on AR15 please do so lightly as it will likly be a hard hit for them and I'm sure they have put a lot into it...

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bigsal

bigsal 757

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Also, If someone breaks this news to the guy on AR15 please do so lightly as it will likly be a hard hit for them and I'm sure they have put a lot into it...

 

Its a race. I doubt ether of you will be able to secure a patent that will trump the one the Russians have, but its good to see all this stuff happening fast. I suspect that the first one of you to bring this to market with the proper steel reinforcement will win the customer base. SO, that means YOU need to work REAL FAST... Because you know Nelson is..... :super:

 

 

(Also, PM me when you need beta testers)

 

Good Luck!

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BKLYN_C

BKLYN_C 14

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Capacity is king when the package is small.

 

Can I get a pre-ban one? :ded:

 

Sorry, you cant.

Russians started producing AK quad stacks in early 2000. The idea floated around there for a while, but it took them a long time to figure the correct angle of widening throat.

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MikeD

MikeD 541

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Also, If someone breaks this news to the guy on AR15 please do so lightly as it will likly be a hard hit for them and I'm sure they have put a lot into it...

 

Its a race. I doubt ether of you will be able to secure a patent that will trump the one the Russians have, but its good to see all this stuff happening fast. I suspect that the first one of you to bring this to market with the proper steel reinforcement will win the customer base. SO, that means YOU need to work REAL FAST... Because you know Nelson is..... :super:

 

 

(Also, PM me when you need beta testers)

 

Good Luck!

Bigsal, The Russian's didn't file an international patent just to note one detail of it... I have already done my homework on this, has he? If not it is already too late. And with all due respect it most certainly is NOT a race and I don't intend to race anyone regardless, patent or not. Just the same as the MD-20 vs the Wraithmaker... Did the AA guys really win that race? They did beat me to market by over a year... Even if it was a race, like I said... If they are still working on function there is a very, very good chance they have already lost the race. Not sure of their experience but it doesn't appear they have any with injection molded parts either. So unless they have some really good sources to help it will take some time just to figure out what material they need, not to mention everything else involved. Not only do you have to design the part, but you have to design the molds which in some cases can be just as big of a job as designing the part and every bit as important. When I researched the material for the drum... even the big name material manufactures didn't know what material I should use. I had to research and figure that out on my own. If I had went with what they recommended our drum wouldn't be half of what it is... All I'm saying is a lot goes into it. And the minute you start racing, you start losing... We have experience with this type of stuff. If they are questioning some of the things I see them questioning publicly and working in the order they also stated publicly I don't have much to worry about. But I am not saying they can't do it and can't get there. I'm not even saying they can't bet me to market. You can do anything you put your mind to and I'm a perfect example of that... But again, this is no race in my book and if the other guy wants to race maybe he can give Alliance Armament a call for some pointers and good luck to him because he will need it... But with the patent stuff he very well maybe doing it all for nothing. Even if he produce it and releases it before a patent was issued... the second a patent becomes official all parts he made, has in inventory, sold to dealers, sold to the public... becomes illegal to own, sale, resale, and even use and anyone that does would be infringing on the patent.

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rob-cubed

rob-cubed 74

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Mike, very happy for the news and looking forward to seeing what you come up with...

 

I'm more excited about a double-stack S-12 mag but a '74 quad-stack would be pretty cool. I'm assuming the Russians never put their quads into widespread production due to reliability/durability issues?

 

Either way you're right, better to take your time and put out a great product than rush to market.

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MikeD

MikeD 541

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Well if this kind of thing floats your boat good luck, aint gonna be cheap that for sure.

Cheap for us to get to market? Absolutely not!

 

Cheap for you to buy? Most definitely!

 

Our price point on these will be great! And quality is not going to suffer one bit because of it!

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bigsal

bigsal 757

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Also, If someone breaks this news to the guy on AR15 please do so lightly as it will likly be a hard hit for them and I'm sure they have put a lot into it...

 

Its a race. I doubt ether of you will be able to secure a patent that will trump the one the Russians have, but its good to see all this stuff happening fast. I suspect that the first one of you to bring this to market with the proper steel reinforcement will win the customer base. SO, that means YOU need to work REAL FAST... Because you know Nelson is..... :super:

 

 

(Also, PM me when you need beta testers)

 

Good Luck!

Bigsal, The Russian's didn't file an international patent just to note one detail of it... I have already done my homework on this, has he? If not it is already too late. And with all due respect it most certainly is NOT a race and I don't intend to race anyone regardless, patent or not. Just the same as the MD-20 vs the Wraithmaker... Did the AA guys really win that race? They did beat me to market by over a year... Even if it was a race, like I said... If they are still working on function there is a very, very good chance they have already lost the race. Not sure of their experience but it doesn't appear they have any with injection molded parts either. So unless they have some really good sources to help it will take some time just to figure out what material they need, not to mention everything else involved. Not only do you have to design the part, but you have to design the molds which in some cases can be just as big of a job as designing the part and every bit as important. When I researched the material for the drum... even the big name material manufactures didn't know what material I should use. I had to research and figure that out on my own. If I had went with what they recommended our drum wouldn't be half of what it is... All I'm saying is a lot goes into it. And the minute you start racing, you start losing... We have experience with this type of stuff. If they are questioning some of the things I see them questioning publicly and working in the order they also stated publicly I don't have much to worry about. But I am not saying they can't do it and can't get there. I'm not even saying they can't bet me to market. You can do anything you put your mind to and I'm a perfect example of that... But again, this is no race in my book and if the other guy wants to race maybe he can give Alliance Armament a call for some pointers and good luck to him because he will need it... But with the patent stuff he very well maybe doing it all for nothing. Even if he produce it and releases it before a patent was issued... the second a patent becomes official all parts he made, has in inventory, sold to dealers, sold to the public... becomes illegal to own, sale, resale, and even use and anyone that does would be infringing on the patent.

 

 

Thats interesting, so the Russians didn't file any patent on this? Man oh man, do I find that hard to believe (but again you've done to search, I have not, so I will trust you on this one). As for TWS, you are assuming you are ahead of him in the process. Neither you nor I know this for sure (thus the race analogy). Anyway, you do make some kick-ass products, and I will be happy to buy these off you or whoever brings them to the market with proper reenforcement first. Again, good luck! :super:

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MikeD

MikeD 541

Posted
Posted

 

Also, If someone breaks this news to the guy on AR15 please do so lightly as it will likly be a hard hit for them and I'm sure they have put a lot into it...

 

Its a race. I doubt ether of you will be able to secure a patent that will trump the one the Russians have, but its good to see all this stuff happening fast. I suspect that the first one of you to bring this to market with the proper steel reinforcement will win the customer base. SO, that means YOU need to work REAL FAST... Because you know Nelson is..... :super:

 

 

(Also, PM me when you need beta testers)

 

Good Luck!

Bigsal, The Russian's didn't file an international patent just to note one detail of it... I have already done my homework on this, has he? If not it is already too late. And with all due respect it most certainly is NOT a race and I don't intend to race anyone regardless, patent or not. Just the same as the MD-20 vs the Wraithmaker... Did the AA guys really win that race? They did beat me to market by over a year... Even if it was a race, like I said... If they are still working on function there is a very, very good chance they have already lost the race. Not sure of their experience but it doesn't appear they have any with injection molded parts either. So unless they have some really good sources to help it will take some time just to figure out what material they need, not to mention everything else involved. Not only do you have to design the part, but you have to design the molds which in some cases can be just as big of a job as designing the part and every bit as important. When I researched the material for the drum... even the big name material manufactures didn't know what material I should use. I had to research and figure that out on my own. If I had went with what they recommended our drum wouldn't be half of what it is... All I'm saying is a lot goes into it. And the minute you start racing, you start losing... We have experience with this type of stuff. If they are questioning some of the things I see them questioning publicly and working in the order they also stated publicly I don't have much to worry about. But I am not saying they can't do it and can't get there. I'm not even saying they can't bet me to market. You can do anything you put your mind to and I'm a perfect example of that... But again, this is no race in my book and if the other guy wants to race maybe he can give Alliance Armament a call for some pointers and good luck to him because he will need it... But with the patent stuff he very well maybe doing it all for nothing. Even if he produce it and releases it before a patent was issued... the second a patent becomes official all parts he made, has in inventory, sold to dealers, sold to the public... becomes illegal to own, sale, resale, and even use and anyone that does would be infringing on the patent.

 

 

Thats interesting, so the Russians didn't file any patent on this? Man oh man, do I find that hard to believe (but again you've done to search, I have not, so I will trust you on this one). As for TWS, you are assuming you are ahead of him in the process. Neither you nor I know this for sure (thus the race analogy). Anyway, you do make some kick-ass products, and I will be happy to buy these off you or whoever brings them to the market with proper reenforcement first. Again, good luck! :super:

Yes, there is a Russian patent, but that is not a US patent... Patents can be quite tricky. As far as assuming, yes, maybe a little and it is no mistake the word "ass" can be found in assume. But I am assuming from his own words. He said and I quote, "We're still working out the details of form and function." That is what leads me to believe we are farther along.

 

As far as the race thing. I ment no disrespect or harm to you. I just wanted to make clear to everyone that we are not going to rush anything on this project. It is the same promise I made when the wraithmaker started shipping a year in advance of the MD-20. People here because of that know better than most what happens when you rush something to market. I just want to assure everyone that my primary objective is not to have the first mousetrap for sale (though it would be nice), but rather the best mousetrap. And again from his own words (questions and uncertainties rather) I can see we very well maybe on our way. For example... I never once questioned whether it should have steel inserts. But the only thing that says for sure is he isn't sure about inserts, lol.

 

I also want to say that even if we get denied our patent that I know the market is big enough to support both of us. And if we do get our patent or if he bows out that I am sorry it worked out like that. Because I do know what it takes and how much he must have put into this already... It's a conflicting subject I guess, in one hand I do want to be exclusive and in the other I hate to see his hard work go down the tube...

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MikeD

MikeD 541

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My understanding is that the quad stack is not patentable. It already exists in several forms. However I could be wrong.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novelty_%28patent%29

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_patent_legal_concepts

That's why I said patents can be tricky. The first quad I know of is a SMG suomi mag. It is pre WWII. But that didn't stop Sites from patenting a quad SMG mag for the Spectre back in the 80's. And it didn't stop Magpul on their AR quad... Patents are touchy and depending on how it is worded can depend on if it offers any real protection. Just like the guy that patented the dog crap freezer... A few key misplaced words and explanations let someone basically copy (steal) his design. This is why there are high dollar patent attorneys. I am not talking about a lawyer that will write a patent... But one that knows and understands the specific laws and can reference key cases. Luckily for me Dayton has more patents filed per population than anywhere else (or at least at one time). I work with a large firm of attorneys and the ENTIRE firm is dedicated solely to such.

 

I also want to say that I am in no way trying to offend any attorneys among us and I'm definitely not saying only a patent attorney can write a good patent application or that it takes one at all. I'm just saying there are specialized attorneys for a reason. It is no coincidence patent attorneys don't take violent crime cases and that people don't typically represent themselves.

 

A lot of times with any legal matter it comes down to who has the best or right attorney (for the job).

 

I also need to back off this subject. It has absolutely consumed me today. Though not in waste or haste... Just know that some time in the near future MD Arms will be offering many more kick ass mags and items! :super::smoke:

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bigsal

bigsal 757

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Yes, there is a Russian patent, but that is not a US patent... Patents can be quite tricky. As far as assuming, yes, maybe a little and it is no mistake the word "ass" can be found in assume. But I am assuming from his own words. He said and I quote, "We're still working out the details of form and function." That is what leads me to believe we are farther along.

 

Based on that I would say your right, but who knows for sure bro!

 

As far as the race thing. I ment no disrespect or harm to you. I just wanted to make clear to everyone that we are not going to rush anything on this project. It is the same promise I made when the wraithmaker started shipping a year in advance of the MD-20. People here because of that know better than most what happens when you rush something to market. I just want to assure everyone that my primary objective is not to have the first mousetrap for sale (though it would be nice), but rather the best mousetrap. And again from his own words (questions and uncertainties rather) I can see we very well maybe on our way. For example... I never once questioned whether it should have steel inserts. But the only thing that says for sure is he isn't sure about inserts, lol.

 

No offense taken. Ive used your drums before and was impressed. I hope this product comes out as well. In fact I would love to get a copy for testing and evaluation as soon as available.

 

I also want to say that even if we get denied our patent that I know the market is big enough to support both of us. And if we do get our patent or if he bows out that I am sorry it worked out like that. Because I do know what it takes and how much he must have put into this already... It's a conflicting subject I guess, in one hand I do want to be exclusive and in the other I hate to see his hard work go down the tube...

Plenty of AKs out there, mostly in 7.62x39, but the market is huge I agree. Hopefully these will be built tough enough to withstand heavy use (unlike every other US made magazine) :super:

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