Additional Internal Polishing

[Las_Vegas_HK 0]

I have been reading all the posts that I can find related to polishing the carrier and bolt along with the hammer but my question is, does anyone polish the internal receiver rails that the bolt engages and slides on?

 

Is there any other additional parts that people sand and polish that they have found helps improve the function of the Saigas? Gas puck or something else?

 

As a side note does anyone have a good before and after picture of a bolt that has been sanded down to smooth out the rough edges as well as help with a loaded mag insertion? It may just be me but from looking the sticky treads and the pictures it is hard for me to tell exactly how much is being removed and from what surfaces.

 

Thanks for the help, great site!!

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Pretty much any surfaces that rub against each other will create less friction on each other if they are smoothed and polished. On my guns I take all the paint, park, and casting lines off of each part that makes contact with another. After polishing them all I have a lot less drag on said parts, resulting in a gun that runs smooth as silk. Lube also helps.

Here's some before /after type pics of some bolts, carriers, & hammers I just did.

 

 

 

 

[bigdog6421 2]

Great pics cobra, that helps us all a bunch. thanks! How much is it for you to polish everything if we ship it to you?

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Also in addition to polishing have you tried grease? Some nice grease works very well on the bolt, carrier, and rails. Tetra gun makes a very nice grease and there are a bunch others that are good too.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Great pics cobra, that helps us all a bunch. thanks! How much is it for you to polish everything if we ship it to you?

 

No problem Ander. Glad I could help some. What I'm doing with these is a whole lot more than just a basic polish and make them shiny. I put some time in them. I have a couple of threads in my business section with more pics and prices if anyone's interested. Don't want to hijack this thread with a sales pitch and catch a lot of flack about it. Anyone interested please PM me for details.

 

+1 on what Classy said...a good grease or lube (even CLP) really helps a lot and will help keep the polished surfaces from scratching each other like if run dry. One good lube I use a lot is Tromix's own "Broken Arrow Break In Lube". It's a special blend made exclusively for Tromix and has some really good qualities.

Ok so I'll do a quick pitch for Tromix...lol...nothing ever wrong with that.

[Rockina 60]

I can from exprience HIGHLY RECOMMEND Cobra's polishing services, he did my shotty and it just about runs it's self....Although I still have to buy it food!!!!

[magsite20 1,664]

[kmustain27 3]

I can testify to the work Shannon does, and also I have to say his service after the sale is second to none. Made my S12 a totally different gun.

[ErikTaylor 41]

One thing I did after I got done polishing the surfaces I took grease and applied it to all those parts that are polished and then I hand cycled the gun for about 10 minutes to help the new surfaces get "worked in" sorta speak. After that I took the grease off the parts and maintained the gun as recommended.

[Las_Vegas_HK 0]

So the small triangular shaped area on yout bolt gets rounded over to the point that the '124' stamped numbers are removed? It would almost appear that this same area from bolt lung around to bolt lug get rounded off?

 

When the instructions refer to grinding down the "hump", I would imagine that this is what they mean.

 

 

What about polishing the receiver rails inside where the carrier engages and slides along? Anyone polish this area?

 

Thanks!

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Yes and yes.

 

The numbers stamped on the bolt are the last three (or on newer models the last 4) digits of the gun's serial number. The numbers are removed mostly if not all on the bolt body, but not the bolt head. The "hump" you are probably referring to is actually the part I would call a 'shoulder' I guess, and is the point where the bolt first starts to widen from the 'neck' at the top of the 'stem', as I call it. It's where the front edge of the shell hangs up when you try to insert a mag on a closed bolt. Smoothing out that transition and polishing it, makes loading on a closed bolt much easier. Also removing that and more material around there, including the 'ridges' and that triangle shaped area, makes it much easier to charge the weapon on a closed bolt. Look up inside the empty magwell as you first unlock the bolt. Don't pull it all the way back yet, just unlock the extractor from the extractor notch in the barrel hood....just to where the bolt head first turns. Now see where that raised ridge and triangular section turn downward? That would normally be running right into the top shell in a loaded mag. With the spring pressure that's on the column of shells, and the resistance caused by that rough metal surface pressing and gouging into that sometimes ridged plastic surface, you get a lot of added resistance and friction. On soft bodied hulls like that cheapo Winchester "value" crap, gouging that top round like that, and what also happens when you pull the bolt back more, causing the original shaped and unpolished claw of the bolt head to rake across the surface of that soft plastic, it can actually deform the shell to the point where the damn thing won't even feed. It gets stuck going into the chamber, or hangs up just below there on the rough, unpolished surfaces below it. Those shells have even been known to get hot and open up inside the loaded mag while shooting, emptying their contents inside the mag body. This is just part of the reasons to avoid "Winchester Universal" in an unmodified S-12. Mine runs it just fine but that's after lots of modifications.

Anyway, modifications to the bolt, bolt carrier, and FCG, if done correctly by someone experienced, will do a lot to improve the performance of the gun, and overall lifespan IMO.

>They make it easier to load on closed bolt.

>It's less likely to deform the top shell in a loaded mag left in the gun.

>Cycles much easier with less resistance on top round and mag spring pressure beneath it.

>If really done well, there's also much less friction / resistance on the bolt lugs and bolt head as it locks and unlocks.

>Polished bolt face makes the shell rim glide loose easier on ejection.

>Polished ejector slot, and ejector, cause less drag on the bolt as it passes through during cycling.

>Polished extractor, and notch, helps smooth opening and closing of bolt at lockup. (Tweaking extractor spring, or replacing with a different one, makes this much easier still. It can also cause problems so I'm not recommending others try this, except at their own risk).

>Polishing the surfaces between bolt body and head make it rotate smoother.

>Polished bolt head turning lug has less resistance in bolt carrier channel.

>Polished rail guide slots in bolt carrier cause less resistance on rails.

>Polished rails themselves make it even smoother.

>Polished bolt lug channel in bolt carrier help bolt head rotate smoother during lockup / unlock.

>Polished recoil spring channel lessens resistance where spring rubs on carrier.

>Polished bolt carrier bottom where it rides over the hammer face, causes much less resistance against hammer and hammer spring.

>Re-contouring both carrier and hammer faces to make them smooth round transitions, allows them to work TOGETHER, not AGAINST each other...polishing them mirror smooth makes this much better even.

 

>I could go on, but basically....Other surfaces on parts where you see paint or parkerizing wearing off from rubbing other parts of the gun...polishing them ahead of time, not waiting for them to wear the paint off, will make the gun operate more smoothly. An AK that's been well used, and shot thousands of times, (very "broken in") has already worn the paint and other coatings off all the high friction areas, and even worn into the steel in some cases where there was lots of friction (IMO, polishing these areas FIRST, and using a good lubricant, will keep that from happening, kind of like some of these "wonder lubes" you can buy to put in a car's engine, allowing them to even run dry for hours and not blow up) Rounding off some rough areas and polishing them, allowing parts to react to each other more smoothly, decreases resistance. You just have to know where NOT to change things too much. I've learned by experience for instance, just how much is way too much to remove from the bolt when smoothing out the 'shoulder'. It's very easy to take off too much metal from a variety of places, and REALLY screw things up. These parts are not available for replacements. You screw up and grind through your bolt body, into the hollow center where the bolt head fits into it, and you just wasted that bolt (unless you have the means to weld it back up and then grind it back down again). Same goes with the bolt carrier, as Pauly referred to earlier...

Grind down your hammer face too far? Same effect...You will fail to engage the disconnect, possibly causing dangerous slam fires and a "runaway" weapon....as in run away fast...lol.

It takes a lot of time to carefully go over all the contact surfaces in the weapon's FCG and Bolt & Carrier, and associated friction points, but when done well, it makes a hell of a difference in overall performance, and IMO causes less wear and tear on the gun over it's lifetime.

Why take it out of the box, buy a bunch of magnum loads, and go beat the shit out of it til it starts to work a little better? That was the old way. These are new times.

Treat it like you would a good woman. It's much better in the long run if you smooth out all the rough edges from the get go....not butt heads with her on everything til one or the other submits.

 

Just my two cents....

[one2za 7]

Hey Cobra. Great post #11.

 

I noticed and investigated a grinding / vibrating when the handle is pulled back and the recoil spring compresses. It's the winds of the spring hitting and sliding over the wall thickness of the tube in the middle. I think that if I knew how to disassemble the recoil spring assembly, I would file and polish the end of the cylinder to more of a taper or chamfer so that the spring winds would slide up and over more easily.

Anyone out there ever attempted this? It would be an easy mod if that half of the spring came off as easily as the other half!

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

One2za you can drift out that rear cross pin that holds the guide rod in place but I would not suggest taking too much metal off the end of the sliding section or the rod. If you disassemble it you can see where that end is made smaller to hold the collar at the end of the stationary rod from coming out. If it was thinned there you would probably split it during use, or it may expand and come apart.

I have one that actually broke off right there under normal use.

[one2za 7]

Thanks so much for the info and cautions.

I'll be careful, maybe just polish.

Which side do I drive the pin out?

 

(and where do I get new parts if I Obamanize it?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Shouldn't matter which side you drive it out. Putting a slight bevel on the leading edge of the pin will make it easier to drive back in.

There isn't a current source for replacements that I know of.

[one2za 7]

Shouldn't matter which side you drive it out. Putting a slight bevel on the leading edge of the pin will make it easier to drive back in.

There isn't a current source for replacements that I know of.

Forgive a stupid question, but what did YOU do when yours broke?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I've just been using it like it is. Hasn't effected function any. I just now took a cold chisel and split the broken end off and removed it, just to keep it from possibly binding with the spring and rod. It was easier to just split it than removing the pin for disassembly. Tried that first and it wouldn't budge with a long punch. You would probably need a very short stiff punch to knock it loose.

[one2za 7]

Thanks again. I decided not to chance it. I WAS able to polish it a bit with a small cone shaped dremel bit, fitting it in between spring coils and manipulating it around slowly. That will have to do. Have a grat day.

[Reosed 0]

How do you take the bolt apart? I'd like to polish the whole thing but I don't want to start driving the pins out the wrong way. Plus it looks like there is a plug of some sort on one side of the pins holding the bolt together.

 

I really appreciate the pictures. I had polished my bolt but it still has the numbers and the triangular portion on the larger portion of the bolt. Although they are mirrored up, I'd like to take more off now that I have a clear picture of how much is good to take off.

 

Thanks again!

 

Reosed

[Reosed 0]

How do you take the bolt apart? I'd like to polish the whole thing but I don't want to start driving the pins out the wrong way. Plus it looks like there is a plug of some sort on one side of the pins holding the bolt together.

 

I really appreciate the pictures. I had polished my bolt but it still has the numbers and the triangular portion on the larger portion of the bolt. Although they are mirrored up, I'd like to take more off now that I have a clear picture of how much is good to take off.

 

Thanks again!

 

Reosed

 

 

So I was looking at my bolt in bad light. I thought I saw a split roll pin on one side of the pin holes and a plug on the other end. It was just where they machined the holes I guess. I have my bolt apart now. I the smallest punch I had was 3/32 just a tad too big. So I had to use one of Girl Friend's nipple bar-bells! It was just the right size. 14ga I think...

 

Reosed

[danklab 57]

I mirror polished the carrier on my x39. As I was doing that I also took a small piece of 600 grit sandpaper and then the polishing wheel to the opening of the rear of the carrier for the mainspring. There's already a little ramp there and I just worked the bottom edge a little smoother and polished it to make less friction on the coils of the spring.

I figured it might help to get a more even compression of the mainspring during recoil of the weapon. Not sure if it's a huge difference though.