FTE everytime since polishing bolt and carrier!!!

[morgan34 2]

how much high brass have you shot shoot aleast 50 rounds of high brass see how it runs on that. will answer questions about your hammer etc. then try aleast 1 1/8 oz 3 1/4 dr for low brass. recoil spring is new and stiff might not like weak loads yet. can always get a lighter recoil spring for light birdshot

[zenman223 460]

ok here's the hammer, if you need better pics or a diffrent angle. ive got more. thank you very much for taking your time to try an help me.

 

 

 

 

please dont tell me i screwed up my hammer in my eagerness to smooth out my action. you know i was having a problem with the trigger not reseting befor when i first shot it. i didnt even think about that when i went to grinding on the hammer, i was trying to get it to cycle. i went out a second ago a shot 3 rounds of high brass through it, cycled them fine but after the 3rd round the trigger didnt reset i pull the bolt halfway back and it reset. now i know enough to know taking off the top of the hammer will probably only make the reseting problem worse. im screwed aint I ??

Edited August 20, 2010 by big-J

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Taking a little bit off shouldn't have given you more resistance unless you messed up the geometry of it and it's somehow hanging up now more than before. Did you have that quad rail installed before it started acting up? Some have reported having problems after mounting a quad.

[zenman223 460]

no i just installed the quad rail today. i read one of your posts infact that said the chaos rail seemed to be the best one in that regard so thats what i got. so how does the hammer look? its not too much is it? im getting ready to go to walmart and get a couple boxes of high brass to run through it. im hoping it just needs to be "broke in".

 

im now concerned with the trigger reset problem(again) since my gun stopped cycling i forgot all about the reset issue. and i know i shouldnt have even touched the hammer given that issue but it completely slipped my mind until earlier. do you have any idea what could be causing it to not reset (other than me screwing up the hammer b/c it was not reseting right out the box) i really appreciate any help or advice you can give, thank you.

 

im just lost, i mean i know a thing or two about guns. im no expert but ive never heard of a gun NOT cycling properly after having the internals polished! apparently these guns function better out the box with there huge tolerances and the rough as hell finish on the internals. there not made to be polished and tuned! maybe i should through some dirt in there and try again!!

 

I'll check back in a couple hours after walmart and putting some better ammo through my saiga. thanks again

Edited August 20, 2010 by big-J

[topmaul 42]

Okay you are on setting 2 correct on your gas regulator?

 

take the bolt out of the gun, take an empty shell attach it to the bold face, now try to remove it, you will find that the bold hooks the rim of the shell very securly. you need to remove the shell then take a little off the fixed hook install the shell again and pull it off feel the difference once it come off a little easier you will be in business.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

Big J, Post your location, maybe one of the guys is close and can check it out in person.

[zenman223 460]

im in Rutherford county, NC. seems there is alot of members here in NC/SC

 

will shaving that extractor not cause issues with extraction if shaved down too far?

Edited August 20, 2010 by big-J

[morgan34 2]

i wouldn't modify anything more until shooting alot more

[Spartacus 1,619]

im in Rutherford county, NC. seems there is alot of members here in NC/SC

 

will shaving that extractor not cause issues with extraction if shaved down too far?

 

Don't futz around with the extractor!

 

The trigger resetting problem is because the leg on the mainspring needs to be tweaked to keep it in place. Lift it up and give the end of it a twist clock-wise with a pair of needle nose pliers. That should make it want to stay on the trigger leg better.

 

Don't be discouraged by the minor adjustments needed, it's all perfectly normal.

[zenman223 460]

well it seems to have improved, it cycles 2-3/4 high brass decently now, still gettn a few stovepipes. it loves 3" buckshot! but it still refuses to cycles lowbrass ammo! most of the time it doesnt even move the bolt rearward enough to stove pipe. it will either barely go back and go back to battery with the empty shell still in it, or it will come back just far enough for the bolt to jam the end of the shell into the top side of the breach. does that make sense? i have to get this thing workin i cant afford to shoot $12 a box ammo FOR FUN. thats what i bought the gun for and so far its been anything but fun. i give up today i will shoot somemore 2morrow and report back. i really think i may need to remove the gas block and contour the underside of it like the picture cobra posted in the "open my ports or not" thread. or god forbid just add another port but im not to keen on drilling holes in a new gun barrel. plus im not jumping into anymore modifications until i get alot more rounds through it and am down to the last option of messing with the gas system. i should note though i cant afford to put hundreds and hundreds of high dollar ammo through it, i got laid off yesterday! so im thinkin i can contour the gas block and even in the future when its is well broken in it still wouldnt be "overgassed" would it?

 

i also did try removing a little off the fixed side of the extractor to no avail. im worried that could comeback to haunt me with exaction/ejection problems actually the first couple high brass i shot after that stovepiped. but i think its "in the process of working itself out"

 

once again guys i cant THANK YOU enough for all the help and advice. im new here but i can tell im gonna like this forum. seems like a really good bunch of guys(or gals). please bear with me and my lack of knowledge of these saigas until i can get this issue solved. i will be here with more noob questions about conversions and what not to because im planning on starting a conversion soon. should i hold off or could the conversion help with reliability issues since its not in its original form?

Edited August 20, 2010 by big-J

[Spartacus 1,619]

>>should i hold off or could the conversion help with reliability issues since its not in its original form?

 

It's probably less confusing/frustrating to get it running right before you convert it. If you use a G2 FCG in the conversion, it will actually make your problem worse until you shave down the tall profile of the G2 hammer.

 

I would take off the quad rail too like Cobra said. Put everything back to stock and then get it running right. Once it's running smooth, change just one thing at a time and test again for function.

 

Sorry to hear about the lay-off, there's an awful lot of that going around.

[zenman223 460]

Spartacus, thanks ive been very discouraged today. about the trigger reseting thing forgive me for not knowing the names of these internal parts but ive never done gunsmithing. or internal work other than polishing moving parts. anyway the problem was coming from when the hammer is reset the hook that comes across the top side of the as it is recocked. the hammer is catching on this hook. i think its the disconnector? the piece directly behind the hammer if speaking from barrel to stock. after shooting it somemore its seems to have smoothed it out alittle so the hammer will slip off that hook and lock up where its ready to fire. sorry if this makes no sense. i know i sound dumb but i dont care im trying to learn. im a smart guy i just need to learn it. thanks for helping. does that still sound like the mainsring leg?

 

 

[Spartacus 1,619]

No apologies needed my friend, we all start at the beginning.

 

That hook behind the trigger hook is the disconnector. It catches the hammer first and then releases it to the trigger after it resets.

 

As far as the spring adjustment, yeah it's a good idea to do it. I wasn't having any trouble with mine, but I still made the spring adjustment to keep it from causing a problem.

 

You can also grab the leg of the spring and bend it out toward the receiver wall. You want to make it prefer to spring out rather than in towards the trigger.

 

Once you get the S-12 running right, it will be your new bestest buddy.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Spartacus

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Always a good idea to make sure an S-12 is running good on everything before adding anything, as far as accessories or conversion parts. I will send you a new factory hammer if you PM me your address. I'll tell you how you can easily install it without having to drill out any pins or anything. It would probably help to just start back at the beginning and go from there. To me it really sounds like it's not getting enough gas for some reason. Maybe those few shots you got off in the beginning were running off some of Ivan's miracle loogie he hocked in there before boxing it up...lol. If it's shoving empties back in the chamber you probably do have a gas issue. If it needs the ports worked on and you can't get it done under warranty, you are welcome to make the 3-4 hour drive east and bring it by here. I can help with that.

[zenman223 460]

thanks guys, i cant tell you how much i appreciate all the help and advice. i'll take a look at that spring tommorow, i know if i can get this thing running right it will cetainly be my new new best friend, although i do have a special relationship with my SR556! i dont know why i worked right out the box but its deff. got to be a gas issue. to me though the gas ports look fine and unobstructed. i doubt i can get anything done under warranty given what ive done to, although i havent touched the gas block. also i would really rather not have to wait the long times it takes and fool with shipping to the repair place and all that. i believe with clear concise instructions i can do it on my own. or maybe bring to you cobra and let you work your magic. i seen your thread on taking to saiga 12s that would not function and making them run flawless. i must say i was impressed.

[StarPD 6]

big_J, do yourself a favor. Give up on chasing your problem. Take Cobra up on his generous offer, and drive to his place and let him fix your gun. He can find and fix your gun a lot faster and easier then you can, and do it right. No offense, but don't forget to practice good manners and call him and make an appointment before you just show up at his place.

 

Let us know what the problem was when you get it running correctly.

 

Good luck to you.

[Sumsky 115]

(what i was mainly worried about was that channel in the carrier that the bolt rotates in, i polished and smoothed the corners a little bit. hey guys, so i just got my saiga 12 this past saturday. the day i bought it i put maybe 6-8 rounds of bulk remington low brass and 5-6 00 buck, without a single issue)

 

The Bolt Lug travels in this channel, which has to do with the Bolt timing. Note what you said in your very first part of the thread. You had no issues with low brass.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Sumsky

[Diego-ted 1]

(what i was mainly worried about was that channel in the carrier that the bolt rotates in, i polished and smoothed the corners a little bit. hey guys, so i just got my saiga 12 this past saturday. the day i bought it i put maybe 6-8 rounds of bulk remington low brass and 5-6 00 buck, without a single issue)

 

The Bolt Lug travels in this channel, which has to do with the Bolt timing. Note what you said in your very first part of the thread. You had no issues with low brass.

 

 

OP, where are we? Did you get it fingered out? Hope so!

 

Diego

[Diego-ted 1]

(what i was mainly worried about was that channel in the carrier that the bolt rotates in, i polished and smoothed the corners a little bit. hey guys, so i just got my saiga 12 this past saturday. the day i bought it i put maybe 6-8 rounds of bulk remington low brass and 5-6 00 buck, without a single issue)

 

The Bolt Lug travels in this channel, which has to do with the Bolt timing. Note what you said in your very first part of the thread. You had no issues with low brass.

 

 

OP, where are we? Did you get it fingered out? Hope so!

 

Diego

[cb8180 2]

Since purchasing and converting my S12 in January I've found, of all the things I tried, that enlarging my three gas ports to 0.93 and reprofiling the G2 hammer to factory profile made the biggest differences in function. My gun now cycles Winchester bulk from Wally World with 100 percent reliability. Just my experience but I'm a happy camper!